Wandering Ear Posted December 8, 2011 Report Share Posted December 8, 2011 Who's got 'em? Do you ever run into problems with clients because of them? I've got 6 gauge plugs in my ears, and an 8 gauge nose ring. I have one corporate client, who mostly does internal videos for a big software company, and they have asked me to remove my nose ring when I shoot with them. I've never been asked this, and was very reluctant to do it. I changed my jewelry to make it possible to remove, which is now a piece of jewelry I like less. I've had to remove the ring at times when I'm not supposed to remove it, i.e. after stretching to a larger gauge, but before it was fully healed, which was painful and prolonged the healing process significantly. After trying to accommodate the request, despite my principals and feelings about the matter, I have decided that I'm unwilling to do it anymore, and after receiving an email yesterday asking me again to remove it during their shoots, I finally stood up and said: "This has for a while been a point of contention for me. I have in the past taken out my nose ring when specifically asked. This is the first company that has ever asked me to do it. I have made an effort to accommodate this request, and it has become a problem for me. The process of putting my nose ring back in after removal can often be uncomfortable, sometimes painful, and at times can cause me to have to go through a short healing process again, which makes my nose sore and takes days or even weeks. I have worked with executives from (X Corporation) and many of the other major corporations in the area for many different production companies, and have never received a single complaint. I do not mean to cause trouble, but due the physical discomfort, and personal principals, I am not willing to remove my nose ring on a regular basis. I also change my jewelry from time to time, which may make it impossible to remove without the assistance of a piercer. I apologize that this doesn't align with your guidelines. If it's going to be a problem, we should talk about other arrangements." This personally gets deep under my skin, and I'm making my stand, knowing that it may well cost me their business. I'm curious as to others experiences. How have you handled it in the past? What would you do next time that someone asks you to remove your piercings? Kelsey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MSpector Posted December 8, 2011 Report Share Posted December 8, 2011 its their money - what dont you get about . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacefivesound Posted December 8, 2011 Report Share Posted December 8, 2011 I have the exact same feelings as you about tats/piercings (although I don't have any), and couldn't see it any other way until I had to start hiring people. Then I began to see my clients looking at ME just because they didn't approve of things that my hires did / the way they look / etc. I gotta tell you, when YOUR personal issues may come between ME and MY paycheck, it's not a question. I'm not disagreeing that being turned off to a person by appearance alone is silly, and in our dramatic job world most people like individuals with personal style and flair, but the corporate world can be a very different story. Tell em it's a religious thing and watch them drop it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old school Posted December 8, 2011 Report Share Posted December 8, 2011 I certainly defend your right to wear what you want Kelsey, it is still a free country, but you must realize that others judge you by there standards and they have the right to hire those they are comfortable with. If you work in Hollywood there seems to be no fashion not tolerated as long as you do your job well. The corporate world has dress codes and standards they like. Since they are hiring, they are the ones you need to please so your choice is to do the gig their way or not to do it on principal. Good luck. CrewC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikefilosa Posted December 8, 2011 Report Share Posted December 8, 2011 I am glad you have brought this up. This has been an issue for me on some occasions when hiring a boom op, and always on corporate / Fortune 500 situations here.... As stated previously, your individuality is certainly your own business. But understand that you are in THEIR space. And they are the client. They have the right to dictate a proper dress code. And they have the right to look elsewhere in their hiring if preserving the feel and ambience of their space is an issue. It usually is... For those gigs it's khakis and an "Izod" or similar collared shirt. Something one can work in, but not too overly casual for the established formality of their workspace. I do not have tats or metal on the body.... but... do understand that a lot of the populace out there might consider both to be ostentatious.... that's just how it is... Radical hair colors also fall into this category. FWIW - I can sympathize with you a little bit - because maybe a couple of times a year, I am asked to remove my hat in some work situations. I politely decline, and counter with my need for it and my headphone use. As far as I can tell, based on workload, it has not affected me on getting hired. I usually joke about how I need it for "friction" .... Daily, I wear a "FlyDanna" covered by a clean, usually logo-free solid baseball hat. The FlyDanna absorbs sweat and is a comfort to the skull - the hat a necessity as I have worn headphones now every workday for 30 years. Genetics, and that workday fact has rendered the noggin a bit "sparse" ! The whole of it - I have kept my hair long for most of my adult life. I like it that way, and it is indeed part of my identity as of now. The hat and headphone combination works for me. I am certain that there are some clients that might prefer me to have short hair and not wear the hat in corporate situations. As the headgear is solid colored, usually black, and logo free, it is more working wardrobe and less of a statement, and maybe that is why I "get away" with it.... FWIW #2 - call me conservative, but I do as little "jewelry" and ornamentation as possible - a watch and a wedding ring (fairly recent for me), is all I "do". On some booming situations I even take the ring off as it can make contact with the pole. And NEVER any necklaces... Years back I had a ring on - my grandfather's, passed on to me after he had died. I wore it proudly, until one day it caught on something in the middle of a work day in the heat of battle --- nearly ripped my finger off... the ring actually tore off my finger (gold) and had to be repaired. It was a big wake-up call for me - we do some physical work out there and there are dangers... Just some thoughts... MF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikefilosa Posted December 8, 2011 Report Share Posted December 8, 2011 Kelsey - I forgot to add one thing.... Consider that you probably are doing great work and that they LIKE you - very much.... That would be indicated by the fact that they made contact and thus the request... Not everyone would get that consideration / "chance" in this disposable universe we live in... MF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted December 8, 2011 Report Share Posted December 8, 2011 " If it's going to be a problem.., " no problem, they call someone else. " they LIKE you - very much... the fact that they made contact and thus the request... " the "hint" is yours to take, or not. BTW: " maybe a couple of times a year, I am asked to remove my hat in some work situations. I politely decline, " covering the head is part of several mainstream religions. even so, the above could apply. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Toline Posted December 8, 2011 Report Share Posted December 8, 2011 My question is, why would anyone want to mutilate their body with holes, pieces of metal and permenent drawings from head to toe? What may be "in" now while you're young is going to look pretty dumb when you're 50. Eric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RPSharman Posted December 8, 2011 Report Share Posted December 8, 2011 Think Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mirror Posted December 8, 2011 Report Share Posted December 8, 2011 You can not have your cake and eat it too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wandering Ear Posted December 8, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 8, 2011 Thanks for the feedback. I fully understand that I am working in their environment, and it is there choice how to present themselves, which includes me and all other sub contractors that they provide in the course of production. I have personally struggled with this issue over the course of the past year since they started asking me to take my nose ring out. I worked for them for a couple years without ever being asked, and early this year they changed their dress code and IC agreement policies. I've struggled with it ever since. I am fighting for my principals on this, as I don't believe that my nose ring makes me in any way unprofessional. I know there are a lot of people who would disagree with that, but that's how I feel, and sometimes (usualy) I feel like we need to stand up for what we believe in. I am very professional in dress and demeanor when on location, usually a collard shirt and dark carharts. I also am conscious of the fact that they might start calling someone else in my place because of my stance. There are a couple other factors (mainly low rates) that make me more willing to accept this and have influenced my decision to start fighting this policy. It does help me be clear about the good working relationships that I have, and I am motivated to put more effort into those relationships, and less effort behind relationships that are a strain. end rant K Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wandering Ear Posted December 8, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 8, 2011 My question is, why would anyone want to mutilate their body with holes, pieces of metal and permenent drawings from head to toe? What may be "in" now while you're young is going to look pretty dumb when you're 50. Eric It's a combination of personal identity, cultural assimilation, and vanity. Every culture has a different method of personal expression, mine personally happens to include piercings and tattoos. You can not have your cake and eat it too. So I cannot have an identity and a business? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RPSharman Posted December 8, 2011 Report Share Posted December 8, 2011 Think of it like this... You are a producer, hired by a conservative corporation to shoot a promotional video. You now have to hire a crew which will represent you to that client. You are not pierced and tatted. Do you hire your #1 sound guy with piercings and tattoos, or your also capable #2 guy who presents a more "neutral" look? I'll give you one guess. You are free to represent your individuality on your own time, but if an employer asks you to put on a "uniform" for the job as a term of employment, then put it on or politely decline the job, hoping you now haven't become their #2 guy. Robert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MatthewFreedAudio Posted December 8, 2011 Report Share Posted December 8, 2011 Also consider other clients may find your appearance more to their liking than someone who is dressed in a polo and khakis. The corporate world has dress codes and standards for a reason and when on a corporate shoot you are in that world. Be thankful your client had the respect to approach you about the piercings. They are letting you know what they need. Now, you certainly are well within your rights to refuse removing the piercings and they are well within their rights to hire a different person who better fits their needs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Toline Posted December 8, 2011 Report Share Posted December 8, 2011 It's a combination of personal identity, cultural assimilation, and vanity. Every culture has a different method of personal expression, mine personally happens to include piercings and tattoos. So I cannot have an identity and a business? If you need all that to have an identity and to feel part part of a culture perhaps you have self esteem issues. Perhaps a business where your "style" is more the accepted norm would be better for you. Eric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip Perkins Posted December 8, 2011 Report Share Posted December 8, 2011 Back in the day hair and beards were a similar issue, and we had a lot of emotion invested in looking a certain way, we felt it was a statement we should be allowed to make. Unlike your nose ring, you can't cut your hair and then grow it back in a few days. I DID lose some jobs when I was a newbie because I lived in areas with a lot of very conservative people, and they didn't like my hair and beard (and didn't like ME well enough to overlook them). You get to make a choice about how you adorn yourself, they get to make a choice about who they work with. At least they were straight with you about why they don't want to hire you again--they could have taken the easy way out, blown you off and gone to the next guy on the list. Everyone has to live with the results of the choices they make. (And it does cut two ways--the next unpierced guy they hire might screw up their sound enough that they will have 2nd thoughts about their attitude about your jewelry, etc., this sort of thing happened to me). In any case, time is on your side, and fewer people will have those prejudices as piercings become ever more common. phil p Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wandering Ear Posted December 8, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 8, 2011 No self esteem issues here. I find this industry to be generally quite accepting of people, and sound is all I've ever wanted to do. You're very right RP, the client will choose the person they feel best suited to their job. Besides this one issue, I've had a good relationship with this client. I hope not to lose their business, but I've decided to accept the possible loss of this income stream in order to stand behind my principals. It's not a clear cut decision in my mind, and only time will tell if it was the right decision for me to make. It was however a personal choice, which has ramifications to my business. I appreciate hearing all of your povs on this subject. Thanks Kelsey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Toline Posted December 8, 2011 Report Share Posted December 8, 2011 Back in the day hair and beards were a similar issue, and we had a lot of emotion invested in looking a certain way, we felt it was a statement we should be allowed to make. Unlike your nose ring, you can't cut your hair and then grow it back in a few days. I DID lose some jobs when I was a newbie because I lived in areas with a lot of very conservative people, and they didn't like my hair and beard (and didn't like ME well enough to overlook them). You get to make a choice about how you adorn yourself, they get to make a choice about who they work with. At least they were straight with you about why they don't want to hire you again--they could have taken the easy way out, blown you off and gone to the next guy on the list. Everyone has to live with the results of the choices they make. (And it does cut two ways--the next unpierced guy they hire might screw up their sound enough that they will have 2nd thoughts about their attitude about your jewelry, etc., this sort of thing happened to me). In any case, time is on your side, and fewer people will have those prejudices as piercings become ever more common. phil p I can only hope I'm not around to see piercings as common place. BTW when do you think the POTUS will have piercings and tats? Eric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MatthewFreedAudio Posted December 8, 2011 Report Share Posted December 8, 2011 I can only hope I'm not around to see piercings as common place. BTW when do you think the POTUS will have piercings and tats? Eric How do we know they haven't had a nipple ring? Hmmmmm? Just sayin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MatthewFreedAudio Posted December 8, 2011 Report Share Posted December 8, 2011 Piercings and tattoos are simply part of the larger topic of what is appropriate on a particular set. A corporate shoot may have different norms than a film set, which may be different than a music video set. When I'm hired for a sit down interview with a former Surgeon General of the US I'm not going to wear my favorite band's tour t-shirt. I'm going to wear a button down or polo shirt. I think this is a great topic, personally. Exactly what is acceptable and professional has changed over the years and will continue to evolve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mirror Posted December 8, 2011 Report Share Posted December 8, 2011 So I cannot have an identity and a business? You can't have their business it seems . This isn't High School, time to act and present yourself as a professional. It doesn't matter how much you want to whine that life isn't fair. As the song goes, "You've got to FIGHT FOR YOUR RIGHT ...for unemployment!!!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taylormadeaudio Posted December 8, 2011 Report Share Posted December 8, 2011 That's a tough one Kelsey, I know you're a stand up guy -- and I know you'll go far in this business. Unfortunately, there are 'standards' by which societies judge individuals, and what might be perfectly acceptable 10 or even 5 years from now in a corporate setting, might not be right now in some (especially corporate) settings... as far as your piercings go, you have to be willing to accept that you're at the forefront of acceptable 'style' when it comes to corporate appearance and dress codes. I understand your desire to stand on principal and potentially lose the client, but as someone who's currently scrounging for every bit of work I can get, I have to say I think you're taking an awfully big risk. I hope you can fill out your calendar without them if they decide to stand firm on their request. In any case, it was a pleasure working with you in Seattle. I'd definitely do it again. I hope everything works out and maybe we can hang out again soon. ~tt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old school Posted December 8, 2011 Report Share Posted December 8, 2011 Like Matthew, I think this is a valuable and good conversation to have in general and not specifically about Kelsey and his position and POV. Are there general rules of what is appropriate set wear? Like me with a well developed body and six pack abs, is it ever all right to work w my shirt off? Is it in poor taste to wear political T Shirts? Wife beaters? Less than clean clothes? NASCAR Hats? A sheer see thru sundress, low cut top, a thong that rides 6 inches above the waist line, pants that reveal half of ones ass? These are all individual tastes and styles. I see them on the set all the time, but are they OK to wear? Personally I think many of these folks look foolish as I'm sure they look at me and think the same thing. I don't know the answer, but I do know if I were losing work because of my appearances I would strongly consider a different look at work. Personally I enjoy the "Grand Parade" and watching the clowns in their outfits but I know not everyone likes a circus. CrewC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taylormadeaudio Posted December 8, 2011 Report Share Posted December 8, 2011 Crew, You never cease to amaze me -- had a good laugh several times through that read. Thank you sir! Yeah, there are some people on set who actually violate IA and OSHA regs. on a daily basis with their wardrobe and/or accessories. Then there are simply those who's taste is in their mouths. I'm definitely no fashion plate, but having zero piercings or ink, I've never really had to worry too much about that aspect of my appearance -- and only once did I garnish a comment on my assless leather chaps. I think the person was just jealous though. ~tt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted December 9, 2011 Report Share Posted December 9, 2011 I remember in the 60's having an issue with sideburns... in the late 70's a client was unhappy when I wore "cut-off's" (Jeans cut down into shorts -about Bermuda length in this case) on a commercial shoot with a politician.. The same thing, only different Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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