seba Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 I'm late to the party, but felt like throwing in my 2-cents anyway. I'm someone who started out focusing solely on post, but then slowly began to see some advantages to getting out of the house/studio once in a while; there's something to be said for experiencing something/somewhere completely different with each project that comes along. I also found that I actually enjoyed booming, and was quite good at it (my height helps a bit, but ultimately it's all down to technique). Sadly, though, I'm starting to wonder if I'm chasing a dying position, what with every production saying: "we're used to working with one sound guy so a 2nd isn't part of the budget". I can't help but wonder if there's simply no such thing as a full-time boom op anymore, which is a shame, as it just means there's one less rung of the ladder for people to enter the field. I imagine most DPs were ACs at some point, so it would stand to reason that there needs to be some equivalent in the sound department (if people can't get a boom op, I won't even bring up the Utility position). Is the art of production recording so undervalued that all productions would just assume you lav everyone, get the boom out of the way, and forget about mic placement and creative recording technique? (Okay, not to suggest that rigging lavs doesn't require its own sort of creativity and good placement...but somehow, it's just less satisfying.) If so, than I may as well just quit now, as I really have no interest in mixing (although I've done it in the past) and have no great love for body mics: basically, I'm just more comfortable as a 2nd, working the main microphone to capture natural, beautiful dialogue (I'm certainly capable of handling all the supplemental duties of a 2nd, but the part that I find most rewarding is of course, the actual act of booming). It's a simple truth that I'd rather be a great boom op than a mediocre mixer, and I'd much rather help great mixers achieve excellent results than have to try and compete against them for the same one-man-band gigs. Maybe this is all just a difference of working in the indie world vs union features, but somehow I've become cynical enough to doubt that going union will make much of a difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old school Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 Not sure where you live and work seba, but in LA most work has a boom op unless you are a "pack mule" type mixer. All TV, Film and Commercials in Hollywood have boom ops so that is an option if you want to be a journeyman boom op. Many fine boomers out here work all the time. It is the art of sound for picture recording regardless of what some mixers think. Ask Wexler or Lightstone and any of the regular folks who work out west how we could do what we do without them. CrewC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Wexler Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 Is the art of production recording so undervalued that all productions would just assume you lav everyone, get the boom out of the way --- snip --- It's a simple truth that I'd rather be a great boom op than a mediocre mixer, and I'd much rather help great mixers achieve excellent results than have to try and compete against them for the same one-man-band gigs. Maybe this is all just a difference of working in the indie world vs union features, but somehow I've become cynical enough to doubt that going union will make much of a difference. I have very little connection with the really low ball "indie" world but I would hope that it has not descended into the idea that ALL projects can be handled properly in production by one person! Even back in the ultra-low budget non-union world of full length feature films being shot in 15 days (this is where I got my start) it was almost always a 2-person crew, sound mixer and boom operator. Just because we have wireless mics now doesn't mean we should always use them. The simple answer to your question about whether you can be a full time Boom Operator, the answer is yes, certainly if you intend to do dramatic, scripted projects of any length. Just about every movie, every TV show, regardless of how independent or what the budget is, has a 2 - person sound crew. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Blankenship Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 Like Crew said, it makes a huge difference where you live. Here in Indianapolis, I occasionally get a 2nd, but not as often as I'd like. You couldn't make a living here just as a boom op. Pack mules have diminished that possibility and made things more difficult for themselves at the same time. So, where are you located? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccsnd Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 I have had a really really really really hard time getting boom ops on shoots im on.(lots of low budget LA) I always try my best to get one, to the point of almost loosing the gig, but the fact is I can't afford to loose gigs. I always tell production that not having a boom op leaves a lot more room for mistakes, as my mind will be on doing several jobs at once. I have tried the whole "is the DP pulling focus" deal, and a lot of other arguments. In the end I almost always end up losing and I end up running my cart on my own. I think as a whole we all need to start saying no to these no boom op jobs. as a whole meaning that I can, with a relative amount of certainty, say no to these gigs knowing they will call me back later because everyone else said no. Unfortunately I don't know that a situation like that could ever happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old school Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 thesoundguy, have you ever said no and wished them good luck as you hung up or walked out the door? Just curious. No is the only power we have. There will always be a schmuck who will do the gig and if you don't but you will always be a one man band if you cave in and do the project solo. Just my POV from what I've seen in my years. CrewC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccsnd Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 yeah, I have. I have lost out on a lot of work because of it. I can't afford to do that anymore. again, a lot of times it is the difference between working and not working. I can't not work to prove a point, they will just go to someone else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old school Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 We all have to do whatever it takes to survive. I'm not putting you down for saying yes, but if you make that deal then don't explain and don't complain, just do the job you said yes to. CrewC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seba Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 Thanks to everyone for your insightful replies - you've quelled the gnawing cynicism and doubt and rekindled some shred of hope in a stranger. There really is a great community here. As for my location, I'll just say that it's a miniscule market not worth mentioning and leave it that. My partner in crime and I both know that relocating to a larger market will be a requirement if we're ever going to make this anything approaching a full-time affair; at least, I knew he would have to relocate - I was having reservations about making a leap without looking for fear of landing and finding myself with nowhere to go (if indeed, boom ops had gone extinct), but again, you've calmed my nerves a bit, and for that I'm grateful. So...should I take a hint? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Blankenship Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 ... As for my location, I'll just say that it's a miniscule market not worth mentioning and leave it that. My partner in crime and I both know that relocating to a larger market will be a requirement if we're ever going to make this anything approaching a full-time affair; at least, I knew he would have to relocate - I was having reservations about making a leap without looking for fear of landing and finding myself with nowhere to go (if indeed, boom ops had gone extinct), but again, you've calmed my nerves a bit, and for that I'm grateful. ... Not meaning to be confrontational, but one hint I'll give you is: If you're not proud enough of your work and position to use your real name and are afraid to even say where you live, I'm not surprised you're having trouble. This is a reputation industry. People hire people they know. People recommend people they know. Without being known, you're nowhere in this business. The "Man with no name" only works IN the movies -- not for the making of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccsnd Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 go east Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RPSharman Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 go east I'd say stay where you are. Both coasts are full, and pretty soon your area will offer a big tax incentive, and you'll be the local hire and you'll get all the movies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacefivesound Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 I can confirm the same crewing hardships in the east, although our indies are smart enough to know we need boom ops, typically. I have gotten to the point where I just say no, if I should have an op and can't. Every time it loses me a job a better opportunty opens up. I think of it as karma. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toy Robot Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 And saying 'No' also doesn't mean you will never work with that specific client again. Example: A client three weeks ago asks for my day rate, etc. Doesn't agree to my numbers, so I kindly say no, but "Thank you so much for contacting me...look forward to working with you when the project budget allows..." Called me back a week ago and booked me for two days at my rate, my way, no more questions, no more hoops. Why? He wound up with a mixer who did say 'Yes' to the first part of his project, but who wound up being inferior. So he remembered me as a professional, not someone he could manipulate into low-balling, and I got the gig in the end (a portion of it, anyway). I've been reading this forum a long time, even before I was a member, and taking the pros' advice to simply say 'No' when it isn't right has helped me immensely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Ragon Posted January 31, 2012 Report Share Posted January 31, 2012 I've been reading this forum a long time, even before I was a member, and taking the pros' advice to simply say 'No' when it isn't right has helped me immensely. ABSOLUTLY!! Each year, I pride myself and saying 'NO' to more and more gigs. Take pride in knowing that the 'sucker' who takes that crap gig, will run himself right out of our biz, hurt back and hurt feelings.. And the producer who didn't come up with a good sound budget, will get exsactly what he paid for. I think Sound is the only crew possition that the production didn't realize there was a problem, until they get into post.. -Richard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan McL Posted January 31, 2012 Report Share Posted January 31, 2012 Having read various rants in recent years about this or that issue, can only say that when you feel your frustration growing at this or that level-of-work related situation it is a clear sign that you are ready to institute change/growth. Every time I've said, "No," the next level arrives. Don't be afraid, be happy. -- Jan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geordi Posted February 2, 2012 Report Share Posted February 2, 2012 Not meaning to be confrontational, but one hint I'll give you is: If you're not proud enough of your work and position to use your real name and are afraid to even say where you live, I'm not surprised you're having trouble. This is a reputation industry. People hire people they know. People recommend people they know. Without being known, you're nowhere in this business. The "Man with no name" only works IN the movies -- not for the making of them. I can offer a counter-point to that argument John - I have my real name listed here, and I'm proud to say that I'm willing to work wherever I happen to be (which currently is a Subway-tuna-filled market space)... But at the same time, I asked a simple question here a few months ago, and my real name got me jumped by one of the members here with no provocation whatsoever. I'm willing to respect anonymity from someone if they feel that it is warranted, especially in light of that prior demonstration by a "colleague" who obviously felt threatened by my mere existence. I will not stoop to the same immature level, I'm more interested in solving problems and recording great sound for a fair rate. With regard to the topic of this thread - I'm firmly against pack-mule audio for the simple reason that I have seen the results on my own work where simple things get missed in the fury of trying to do it all yourself, and I have heard the results when working post on other mixer's work when they were (or are) preferring to work as a pack mule OMB. I can offer numerous examples to any producer about how a boom op or A2 has easily saved the production more than his daily salary in increased efficiency and never having to hear the words "holding on sound" on set. The problem is that the pack mules have given them the idea that they can pay substandard wages AND no gear rental, and get a poor desparate shlub to drive 500 miles for a multi-week flat-rate gig, with no mention of expenses, hotel, or mileage. Sadly, I'm not making that last bit up. I wish I was. I said no to it when they wouldn't even reply to a simple set of questions about the gig. That is the only power I have, and tho I could use the money, I don't have the ability to invest in their project, especially when they aren't even considering a boom op or gear rental. As for jumping ship and going to a larger market - Got any pointers on getting established before running out of food? How would you go about finding the gigs? I would happily be a set monkey for Jan in NYC if she had something for me to do, I even have a place to stay up there... But other than the folks on here and my family up there... Its the same problem as anywhere else - how do you get established in a new area in a reputation-based business, when you aren't "Where everybody knows your name" like the song says? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted February 2, 2012 Report Share Posted February 2, 2012 " but who wound up being inferior. " might that have been due to the circumstances s/he accepted, that is working solo when a duo was needed ?? That is a real problem with accepting those gigs! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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