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SoundMixer Hell


Michael Miramontes

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Agreed, I think the key that most people tend to forget is the word student. Too many of them get sold on the idea that they are the next great director or cinematographer and as such they should be using only best when reality simply does not work that way. What they should be learning is logistics, business practices, how to sell their movie and, production after that.

I wish all the major film schools (particularly AFI, Columbia College, PCC, NY Film, and so on) would make all their students take at least a 3- or 4-day class on business and logistics: how to set up a schedule, how to make a call sheet, how to write a resume, how to write a business letter, how to (properly) hire people, how to write a deal memo, and stuff like that. I'm often appalled by the people at the low end who don't know this stuff -- and always pleasantly surprised when I encounter the handful who do.

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Maybe that's the problem -- the students get taught this stuff the first year, and then forget it by the second!

I agree 100% with much of the above comments. To echo what Geoff says above, the bottom line is, if you're gonna build a house, there's a certain amount of money you have to have, and certain people you're going to have to hire, or the house will fall over. A film is the same way. Some people get it in their head that it's possible to make a film for some unreasonably-low amount of money, and then wind up insulting cinematographers, sound mixers, and other professionals by offering them $50 or $200 or whatever it is to work it for 12 hours a day.

At some point, what they need to say is: "I can't make the film until I raise X dollars." The chance of lucking out with a Paranormal Activity-type of movie (which started out at $15,000) is even worse than winning the Lotto. And they need to understand what real equipment costs, and why hiring pros will eventually save them money, not cost them money. I wish every film school would emphasize this more.

The saddest ads I see on the net are for people trying to get their projects remixed for free or almost free. "We have some dialog problems that need to be fixed, and we have some noise issues, but we need it done in two weeks for $500 because we ran out of money for post." Total lack of planning. And maybe if the audio was done right, they could have avoided 90% of those problems later on.

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The saddest ads I see on the net are for people trying to get their projects remixed for free or almost free. "We have some dialog problems that need to be fixed, and we have some noise issues, but we need it done in two weeks for $500 because we ran out of money for post." Total lack of planning. And maybe if the audio was done right, they could have avoided 90% of those problems later on.

Right on! I've turned down a bunch of paying (not much) post jobs because audio was recorded so poorly. It doesn't do me any favors (in-fact harm) to have my name on something that is never going to sound good. once it's off mic, it's off mic. I have to tell the "film makers" not much can be done, you should have.....etc.

Its a shame because with the prevalent use of DSLR's some of the projects look quite good. but as they took no regard to audio I have to tell them they ruined there "film"

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At some point, what they need to say is: "I can't make the film until I raise X dollars." The chance of lucking out with a Paranormal Activity-type of movie (which started out at $15,000) is even worse than winning the Lotto. And they need to understand what real equipment costs, and why hiring pros will eventually save them money, not cost them money. I wish every film school would emphasize this more.

Hey everyone, new guy (FNG) here. I'm an audio producer by hobby for over a dozen years, moving into film sound and finding that producers are retarded. Sounds like I'm in good company.

My film school (San Francisco School of Digital Filmmaking) has a real production sound instructor (Ian D. Thomas) whom we've met with several times over the course of our 1 year program. He drilled into us several maxims that really hit home. I'm aware that much of this is preaching to the choir here:

  • Show up before your call time. Call time is when you should be done with your donut and coffee and ready to work.
  • Treat sound as 50% of your film. Audiences will sit through a shitty looking picture if it sounds good; if it looks incredible but sounds awful, people will walk.
  • Really listen to the ambient noise when location scouting.
  • And so much more, I'd spend all day listing them.

Also, our chief instructor is an indie producer in his own right, and as part of our curriculum is teaching us the business of producing. His early advice to us was "worry about how much money you PERSONALLY can raise before you create a production budget. Creating a film production budget of a million bucks is worthless if you can't raise that money."

So I guess my point is that there are film schools that do teach the real world of film production.

Loved the "Tuna Sandwich" video, I've already sent that off to a producer whom I'm talking with about a job.

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He drilled into us several maxims that really hit home.

Yep. The way I always heard call time explained was: "if you're only 10 minutes early, you're on-time. If you arrive at call-time, you're late." I always, always try to be a little early.

I guess the biggest frustration we're dealing with nowadays -- particularly with the advent of cheap, reasonable-looking DSLR cameras for docos -- is the overemphasis on picture over sound. Once again, the low-budget rule appears to be, "everybody knows what bad sound is like, but very few appreciate good sound," especially neophytes.

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Yep. The way I always heard call time explained was: "if you're only 10 minutes early, you're on-time. If you arrive at call-time, you're late." I always, always try to be a little early.

Agreed.

The way I've heard it is: "On time is late."

My rule of thumb is 15 to 20 minutes before call time and, if the gig's further away with more unknowns, then even earlier. It's nice to be able to breathe on the way there rather than get uptight about every little traffic glitch.

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With regard to call times... Do you find yourself called at the same time as the G&E, or is there a separate call for sound, perhaps closer to when they actually plan on getting the lens cap off?

On a lot of these ultra-ultra-ultra-ultra low budget (thanks Marc!) projects... I see that sound will be called with G&E, so that I am being asked to show up and sit around for 2-3 hours while they figure out how the DP would like to light the scene. This does not seem to be a good use of the crew's time to me... But maybe I'm off target?

A pro sound mixer who I respect suggested that the sound crew should not be called with G&E, but instead should be called with the actors, or perhaps 1 hour before actor call. I have been able to negotiate this setup with crews that I have worked with before, but a lot of the neophytes seem to think everyone should be called together. Thoughts?

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On typical "real" productions (as in decent budget, and/or union, you know, the ones you are being paid for!) the sound crew is usually called with the general "crew call" call time. if needed, G+E, and other departments (even actors, like for makeup) may get "pre-calls". in some cases the SUT gets a small pre-call to set up before the mixer and boomer. sometimes with special issues, there may be a pre-call for playback (like to position and set up a thumper system..

Depending on the circumstances sound may get a later call --maybe asecond unit starting with MOS shots, stunts etc, or sound may come at the general call time and be released earlier for those stunts MOS...)

When you are being paid no problem, and if you are not being paid, I'd suggest figguring out what time you feel like showing up... ::)

" a lot of the neophytes seem to think everyone should be called together. "

they haven't got a plan, and they are sticking to it! :-*

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Perhaps off topic, but I'll add my 2 cents... I'll argue to the contrary here....

I am NOT a fan of later call times - and it has become pretty standard on big commercials - around here -

to get a call time at least an hour later than everyone else. I like to get there with everyone else -

Why?....

With a later call, I often find unknown logistics to be a problem -

Reasonably nearby parking is all gone, and then the real estate on set is often a challenge...

the perfect place to "be" is now storage for C-Stands, a bunch of personal bags, or craft svc... tough luck....

Oft-needed sound blankets and mats are more difficult to place when the walls and floors are all gacked up with lights and grip.

And any opportunity to interject on wardrobe / jewelry decisions, especially if the treatment dictates wireless mics to be a necessity.

I always lobby to be there, and on the clock, at least an hour and a half first shot.... a chance to unload, park in the distance, meet the principals, learn about what the treatment is and what's in store for the day, set up everything, lock and test to camera, mic 'em up, and have just a slight chance to breathe and be poised for the director....

Even then there is the occasional AD pitchfork that comes out, wanting to shoot right away, hoping to get a jump on the schedule.

And if the location is unfriendly or difficult, well, that can all add up to a different sort of sound mixer hell....

Every one else is "ready", why not? "Because you called me in a full hour later than everyone else, that's why..... "

Although it's a blessing if the day ends up to be shorter than the usual 10-12 around here, it can be particularly annoying to go through all the trappings of a later call, and then find that out.... I'd rather come in with everyone else and do my time on the front end.....

It makes for a better day, IMHO.

MF

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I agree with Mike F.

It's pretty much the more complete version of what I was saying.

Now, if everything is MOS for the first five hours, that's a different story. I just did another one of those this week. I still arrived quite a bit early because I've seen such shoots get ahead of schedule and the moment I arrive they want me to spring into action. Fortunately, that didn't happen on the one this week.

But a few years back I had one commercial (actually it was for the same client, but a different add agency, as the one this week) where I had a later call time due to earlier MOS shots. I pulled up at least a half hour before call time and just as I was getting gear out of the car (early, mind you), someone ran up in a panic and said, "We're ready to shoot with sound? How long will you be?"

I'm not fond of having fifty people waiting and staring impatiently while I prep -- even though it's still before my call time.

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I like your way of doing things too John, so that I have a relaxing chance to set up, especially if I am working with rental gear that I need to build. On multi-day gigs, I'll usually go with the as-early-as-possible plan for the first day, then play it by ear based on if they know what they are doing or not.

There have been more than a couple that have no plan, and are religious about sticking to it however!

I know the annoyance we all feel when that AD comes calling for sound when you are still getting out of the car. I had that happen on one recent project where I was called to a location... That was entirely MOS. Oy vey. This was on the third day however, so I just grabbed the bag and powered it up.

Mike F: I like your idea of being able to treat things early... But I personally have more of a style of adapting myself rather than the location, if only b/c even given all the time in the world, the shoots I tend to get want the ability to aim the camera fricking EVERYWHERE at a moment's notice. I tend to use ambulatory sound absorbers on set more than anything else in some of these small locations... That is if I can get them to SHUT UP during the take anyway! ;D Seriously, I find the rejection of the CS3 to be impressive enough that I don't usually hear any difference if I throw blankets everywhere or not. I'll put up a clip from a recent shoot for example.

edit: Here's the link: http://dl.dropbox.co...7172/NoCard.mov

The setup for this is in a museum in Savannah, and what you can't hear is a jackhammer being used about half a block away behind the guy standing outside the door. The CS3 was outside, and yes, we see the reflection. Oops. This is raw production audio, the only thing that has been done is basic favoring of whichever mic (no lavs) was being talked into.

As to the parking... Dont you guys get yourselves declared as a gear truck, so you have a parking place next to the camera and G&E vehicles? Maybe I run light enough still that I don't need my own space in a cube truck, but I like being self-contained. I even get to be set dressing once in a while - That Jeep visible at the end of the clip is mine. :D

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