The war is over.

[old school]

Love or hate President Obama, he did end the Iraq War and is bringing our brave troops home from that tragic mistake. One more to go Mr President. Happy Holidays to all.

CrewC

[RadoStefanov]

Not a smart move for the economy however I fully support it.

And I respect the President for choosing what is right instead of what is better for his reelection.

[greg sextro]

And I respect the President for choosing what is right instead of what is better for his reelection.

If only he operated that way with everything else he's made a decision about...

[Marc Wielage]

The war is still going on in Afghanistan, and I think there's still over 50,000 troops over there.

--Marc W.

[Richard Lightstone, CAS]

Buried in the hype of who did what, is the fact that President Bush, Secretary of Defense Robert Gates and the Iraqi Cabinet approved SOFA; The Iraq Status of Forces Agreement, after lengthy negotiations from October 2008 and finally agreed to in December of 2008.

That agreement specified that all U.S. forces had to be out of Iraq by December 31, 2011. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S.–Iraq_Status_of_Forces_Agreement

So no matter who was President, this was a date certain. President Obama, will undoubtably take all the credit for the troop withdrawal, making it appear as if he was responsible. He will campaign as fulfilling his "promise", but the date of troop withdrawal was a fact before he was ever elected.

Like every President before him, things put into process that turn out right by the previous administration become his victory. All I can give him credit for is being in office when it happened.

[RadoStefanov]

He could certainly postponed it indefinitely or for long as he wants.

Buried in the hype of who did what, is the fact that President Bush, Secretary of Defense Robert Gates and the Iraqi Cabinet approved SOFA; The Iraq Status of Forces Agreement, after lengthy negotiations from October 2008 and finally agreed to in December of 2008.

That agreement specified that all U.S. forces had to be out of Iraq by December 31, 2011. http://en.wikipedia....orces_Agreement

So no matter who was President, this was a date certain. President Obama, will undoubtably take all the credit for the troop withdrawal, making it appear as if he was responsible. He will campaign as fulfilling his "promise", but the date of troop withdrawal was a fact before he was ever elected.

Like every President before him, things put into process that turn out right by the previous administration become his victory. All I can give him credit for is being in office when it happened.

[justanross]

Wait wait wait. You guys do know that Bush's plan was only for ten years right?

Obama had nothing to do with it. I'm not trying to defend Bush but don't give Obama credit when he's done shit all.

[Michael P Clark]

Well, if people can blame one president for the mistakes of the past president, why can't we rejoice the current president for keeping the promise of the past president? If you ask me, seems to happen all the time, regardless of who's in office. And I'm not speaking of the issues with the current administration. This happens with all administrations. I think the point is, Welcome Home.....Finally!

[chriskellett]

Well, if people can blame one president for the mistakes of the past president, why can't we rejoice the current president for keeping the promise of the past president? If you ask me, seems to happen all the time, regardless of who's in office. And I'm not speaking of the issues with the current administration. This happens with all administrations. I think the point is, Welcome Home.....Finally!

plus 1, welcome home.

[Olle Sjostrom]

I remember ten years ago when the troops were first sent there, we had massive demonstrations (oh I believe half of the world had) in Stockholm. My political awareness had just started to grow. Now that the "war is over" I'm glad, but there won't be any cheering until Afghanistan is empty of any military activity. Even us Swedes have troops there and we claim to be a neutral country... My ass. We let Hitler march through our country and we still don't have the guts to say we are participants in WAR. We call it "peace keeping". People are getting killed. Not just the peace keeping side. Sweden's a chicken nation.

I know I'm treading high water but I have to voice my opinion, and I don't mean to offend anyone, all are entitled to their opinion. And my opinion is war is crap. I don't support anyone going to war, no matter what the "reason" is. The only reason for war is killing or winning something at the cost of killing other people. It's horrid and I wish only the opposite.

But I totally respect anyone who think war has a just cause. As stated, everyone's entitled to their opinion and their life choice should be discussed only by that person. And I mean no disrespect to anyone who might think otherwise.

War will never end, and never ever change, unless we all put our weapons down. But that won't happen, because we invented them and it's in our nature...

[Tom Maloney]

This link pretty well sums it up:

http://www.playingforchange.com/episodes/8/War_No_More_Trouble

Tom Maloney

[RadoStefanov]

+1

Well, if people can blame one president for the mistakes of the past president, why can't we rejoice the current president for keeping the promise of the past president? If you ask me, seems to happen all the time, regardless of who's in office. And I'm not speaking of the issues with the current administration. This happens with all administrations. I think the point is, Welcome Home.....Finally!

[studiomprd]

" will undoubtably take all the credit for the troop withdrawal, "

while escalating the even more costly and at least equally useless war in Afghanistan (who are we fighting ther?? what are we fighting for ?? who are we proping up?? who asre we secretly negotiating with??)

and watch out for all the other wars we have been sticking our nose and toes into... Africa includes several...

Oh, yeah this war is "over", --and we lost it! Well, we certainly didn't win it!

[studiomprd]

The corrupt Afghanistan puppet government we installed has also turned on us, and we really aren't wanted there, either.

[RPSharman]

I consider health care reform to be one of the biggest pieces of legislation successfully introduced by a president. And it was passed under huge opposition. Bush started a war under false pretense, and grew the government and debt exponentially. He reintroduced torture and imprisonment without charges and/or representation.

Bush may have created a "hard out" date, but we all know these dates are total bullshit. Just like, "Another $85B is all I need."

Obama has continuously made solid decisions intending to improve our country, and while he has arguably made mistakes, he isn't sticking with his unsuccessful decisions day in and day out. He continues to try new things and embrace new ideas.

[Philip Perkins]

At this point I don't care whose idea it was (even if it was Cheney's!), I'm just glad it's over and we can get about helping the thousands of people who served there make lives for themselves at home. The less said about the whys and what fors the better at this point. You can support and help vets and be a pacifist too. Afghanistan too, soon.

phil p

[Glen Trew]

... I don't support anyone going to war, no matter what the "reason" is...

That was Einstein's opinion, too, and he was very vocal about it. Until, that is, the Nazi's ransacked his lake house in 1933. Soon after, Einstein wrote, "...Under today's conditions, if I were Belgian, I would not refuse military service, but gladly take it upon me in the knowledge of serving European civilization." (Einstein biography by Walter Isaacson)

My theory is, generally, that it's all relative to the position of the observer. (And you can quote me on that.)

gt

[old school]

@ Mr Lightstone. I agree that timing is everything. Bush was given the presidency by the Supreme Court, not the popular vote. He inherited a great economy and surplus which he squandered and gave away to the top 1 or 2 % of our countries top earners instead of investing in our country. We were attacked by al-Qaeda after many warnings on his watch. Instead of going after them, we went to war with a bad man who had zero to do with attacking us. We lost almost 4,500 men n women and many thousands more wounded in that cluster fuck. He didn't ask us to pay for the wars and put them on credit. He left his mess to the next President. Let us give credit where credit is due.

BTW, I also read as much if not more than you and I am well aware of SOFA agreement. The War ended under President Obama's watch and for that I'm happy because I doubt it would have under a president McCain. Just my POV.

Personally I am happy the Iraq war is no longer killing our service men n women and they can come home. Now that we have decimated the al-Qaeda in Afghanistan I hope we bring them home soon as well. When attacked our country will always go after those who did it and that is for certain. That is good and valid. War of choice is another matter all together. Peace on Earth to all.

Welcome home troops.

CrewC

[Richard Lightstone, CAS]

Crew,

Thanks for your reply. We will have to agree to disagree.

Merry Christmas to you and yours.

[John Steigerwald]

@ Mr Lightstone. I agree that timing is everything. Bush was given the presidency by the Supreme Court, not the popular vote. He inherited a great economy and surplus which he squandered and gave away to the top 1 or 2 % of our countries top earners instead of investing in our country. We were attacked by al-Qaeda after many warnings on his watch. Instead of going after them, we went to war with a bad man who had zero to do with attacking us. We lost almost 4,500 men n women and many thousands more wounded in that cluster fuck. He didn't ask us to pay for the wars and put them on credit. He left his mess to the next President. Let us give credit where credit is due.

BTW, I also read as much if not more than you and I am well aware of SOFA agreement. The War ended under President Obama's watch and for that I'm happy because I doubt it would have under a president McCain. Just my POV.

Personally I am happy the Iraq war is no longer killing our service men n women and they can come home. Now that we have decimated the al-Qaeda in Afghanistan I hope we bring them home soon as well. When attacked our country will always go after those who did it and that is for certain. That is good and valid. War of choice is another matter all together. Peace on Earth to all.

Welcome home troops.

CrewC

This.

[Mirror]

Crew,

Thanks for your reply. We will have to agree to disagree.

Merry Christmas to you and yours.

That

[Jim Gilchrist]

At this point I don't care whose idea it was (even if it was Cheney's!), I'm just glad it's over and we can get about helping the thousands of people who served there make lives for themselves at home. The less said about the whys and what fors the better at this point. You can support and help vets and be a pacifist too. Afghanistan too, soon.

phil p

+1, and elegantly stated, Phil.

I've spent a lot of time working with the returning wounded men and women that served in both Iraq and Afghanistan the last 18 months or so, many of whom wouldn't have survived their battlefield injuries had they occurred at the beginning of the most recent conflicts. Many others have returned with a whole spectrum of brain injuries, from mild to severe. They have a challenging life ahead and many will need special care for the rest of their lives. We owe them that care as well as our respect and our compassion.

My best wishes for a safe and happy holiday and a healthy and prosperous 2012 to all here,

Jim

[Glen Trew]

...Bush was given the presidency by the Supreme Court, not the popular vote...

Since 1787 no US presidential election has ever been determined by national popular vote. The electorial college was implemented then for two reasons: 1) to prevent the geographic layout of the US from being unduly influenced by a relative few densely populated areas, and 2) to give a degree of representation for citizens counted in the census who live in areas where going to vote was very difficult. If you look at the "red/blue map" of the 2000 election (http://www.usatoday.com/news/politicselections/vote2004/countymap2000.htm), it is clear that the electoral college did what it was originally intended to do. It should also be kept in mind that both candidates, of course, knew that electoral votes determine the outcome. Therefor, both candidates ran their campaigns to win electoral votes (the only way either would win anyway); not to win the national popular vote. This is which is why, well before the election, Bush conceded California and New York, and Gore conceded some of the more conservative states. If the electoral college did not exist, and both candidates campaigned to win by national popular vote, it is more than reasonable to project that Bush would have won that election by popular vote, especially considering the small spread of 01.1% of the popular vote that Gore had over Bush. I'm not saying I like or dislike the results of the election; I'm just pointing out some facts that are too often unknown, forgotten, or worse -- intentionally omitted in support of one's wishes.

Glen Trew

[RPSharman]

I don't believe Bush "stole" the election. I believe the 1% helped manipulate the system to give it to him. AND - it should never have been close enough to matter. Gore and his people blew it. It's like a relief pitcher being handed an 11-0 lead in the 8th inning, then losing.

But that's a whole other topic.

I am also happy that a lot of Americans in both colored states will have a lot to celebrate this year with their returning (or soon to be returning) loved ones.

[old school]

Since 1787 no US presidential election has ever been determined by national popular vote.

Glen Trew

I certainly understand this fact and I apologize for linking the 2 statements together as they are separate facts. " Bush was given the presidency by the Supreme Court, not the popular vote.

My joy for the military families return from the war is tempered by those lost and maimed by that war of choice. All states lost many brave men n women. California lead the way with the most dead and wounded. I hope as well celebrate the holidays with family and friends that we take a moment to reflect what really happened and say a prayer for all of us.

CrewC