Jump to content

Just got burned for the first time


BAB414

Recommended Posts

Hey all,

I've been reading posts on this site religiously for over a year but this is only my second post.

I wanted to share a little story that happened yesterday on a gig to seek some advice to make sure something like this doesn't happen again. I apologize for all the text so the short version is:

I was getting a feed from a house mixer for a live event, whose careless mistake completely ruined the first 7 or so minutes of my recording, though in retrospect, I should have double-checked the connections on his side, despite the extreme carelessness of his mistake. I felt like a jerk, but I held a grudge against the house mixer for the rest of the night. Did I mess up and how could this be avoided in the future? If I am downstream from someone else who might make an error, what kind of precautions (technical, political...) can I take to save my recording and my reputation?

The Long Version:

I've been doing production sound for a little over four years, with a strong background in narrative, but lately I've been doing a lot of interviews, live events, etc. Yesterday's gig was one of the easiest: a live-audience interview that was being taped. It was part of a series of celebrity interviews with a pretty big actor from the 80's and a big client. I was solely responsible for recording the sound (2 lavs and a handheld mic) which was being mixed and handled by the house guy on his own board in the booth.

The house mixer, who was very nice, said he usually gives guys a mono out for everything, but I told him it was important to me to isolate everything as much as possible for my purposes. His mixer had direct outs, inserts, and line outs for each channel, so we tried the direct outs, which sounded a little dirty and a little low to me after testing each mic. I thought maybe there was a pad on them or something so I asked if we could try the line outs, and he graciously repatched the cables for me. It sounded worse than before so I told him I'd prefer to go back to what we had with the direct outs. He again repatched the cables and we waited for the event to begin.

After he laved the talent, I saw the levels on his meters bouncing, and was completely confident everything would be fine. It was quite a shock to me that once the interview began, sound was coming out of the house speakers, but I was receiving absolutely nothing from the board. The producer/shooter saw he wasn't getting any signal from me and he started freaking out too. I immediately told the house mixer that I wasn't getting anything. He abruptly ran out of the booth, leaving me alone with his gear for a solid 5 minutes while I recorded nothingness.

The first question that came to my mind is: Is it OK to mess around with this guy's equipment to try to save my own ass? I do not know the answer to this. It's a sort of ethical dilemma, but my reputation was on the line. If I knew what the problem was, I probably would have fiddled with his gear, but I also didn't want to mess up the live sound for the event.

Finally, the guy returns and sits down at his board as if nothing was wrong. I anxiously reminded him that I was getting NOTHING. He repeatedly told me that this was impossible because nothing had changed. After fiddling around with the connections for another 2 minutes, he realized that I was plugged into the wrong direct outs, which belonged to 2 adjacent unused channels from his board. AKA - When he plugged me back into the direct outs, they were the wrong direct outs. He repatched me to the correct ones and I had signal. I sat there with a grudge for the next 2 hours, knowing that I had an incomplete recording of an interview I would only have one chance at. I knew that the producer/shooter had a shotgun going into his camera as a backup, but it almost didn't matter for me. I felt like I had failed.

And I think I did, because even though I did not make the mistake, something as rudimentary as plugging cables into the correct outputs cost ME my recording. I didn't think I would have to watch this guy to make sure he was plugging my cables into the correct outputs (the same set of outputs from which he was unplugging them to begin with) but that little stupid mistake screwed me.

Is it really on me to check on that kind of stuff (I assume yes, since it's my cable and it's going to my mixer)? Furthermore, is it on me to make sure that this guy is doing his job to the best of his abilities so that I get the best recording possible? What can I do in the future to prevent myself from being so vulnerable to careless errors caused by others (doing sound or anything else), that may not even be under my control? Outside of using my own lavs and sending HIM the signal, how could I have made sure that nothing this guy did could have messed me up? Generally, how would I explain what happened to a producer without playing the blame game but still saving my ass?

In the end, I explained what happened to the producer and he was surprisingly really laid back about it and told me not to worry despite my excessive apologies. The house mixer ditched immediately afterwards without a single word, and that really felt uncool. Did I mess up?

Any and all advice would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks,

Ben

Link to comment
Share on other sites

"Is it really on me to check on that kind of stuff (I assume yes, since it's my cable and it's going to my mixer)? Furthermore, is it on me to make sure that this guy is doing his job to the best of his abilities so that I get the best recording possible?"

I think the house guy was probably doing his job since you did hear program coming from the speakers --- that is his job I assume. Now, your job was relying on interfacing with his equipment, his feed, and without that being right (connection problem you describe) you had nothing. Most of us have done jobs where we are relying on other people and "house" or installed equipment, and in those situations you have to test, check, double check everything every step of the way. Even then, you may be the victim of a kick out, something not under your direct control, where you end up again with nothing. All you can do is do as much testing during your prep or "sound check" time if there is any, there is never too much testing when you are relying on someone else, someone else's setup, for you to do your job properly.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes, unfortunately it is your job. Yes--he mispatched you, but it's kind of up to you to check your own connections and wring the system out. Getting house feeds is always a delicate matter for outsider soundies--phoning ahead to let the guy know you were coming and what you'd like is always a good idea, as is a scout if at all possible. There will be resistance to this but you have to be straight with your client that the PA guy now is a major part of the shoot and has the ability to really screw things up for you, so you need some extra time. The guy was already being pretty trusting w/ you by letting you pull signal from insert outs (where you have the potential to screw up his sound) as opposed to direct outs, bus outs or just a mono mix, with which any mistake you might make (bad cable or adapter etc) would not affect him at all. It's weird that they guy left the CR, but maybe he thought you not getting a feed was a symptom of something else he'd been having trouble with. He could have been more sympathetic, but you have to remember that you are his guest in that CR, and not an equal partner in what's going on. Re using your gear and feeding him, that is an EXTREMELY unlikely scenario with most FOH guys--way too scary for them.

phil p

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Tough break. I'm yet to come across a 'house mixer' that I wasn't associated with or at least friends with that didn't see me as a 'pain in the ass'. They're doing their thing and are just as stressed to get their tasks done as you are, and you're an 'extra task'.

It's always great going in to a gig like that having knowledge (at least basic) of the mixers they may be using (most AV companies I have to jack into use a handful of different mixers, and they're similar) - that way you can check exactly what they've done, offer to do it yourself (which has NEVER been turned down as they rushed off to check the stage monitors or something), or politely correct them.

Keep an eye on what they're doing, sometimes they mess up, occasionally they'll change an aux buss unknowingly or something... the faster you can correct the issue the better. The guy seemed pretty unprofessional to just disappear like that and then not care at all, but OTOH, you're not his main problems. I have no qualms about touching house equipment, either, because I'm usually more familiar or 'qualified' to use it than they are anyway - I did their job in an AV company for 4+ years...and the shows that I have to jack into all seem to be young kids. Once people see that you know what you're doing, they're usually OK with it. Live music is a different story as the gear is usually owned by the mixer or producer, rather than an AV company. Anyway, I digress...

If that situation ever happens again (in my situation), I'd go ahead and make changes to MY cables. As long as you don't touch the master outs, the faders or the input cables, no one SHOULD ever know. Direct outs are a different story, as Phil mentioned, but I've never been connected that way.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have never completely trusted the house mixer when I do these kind of jobs. You are basically relying on them to give you what you need. Your job on these shoots is to make sure you're at least getting what they're giving you and as good as it can be.

This is why I'm super paranoid on this shoots. I tend to keep all my gear turned on with constant testing up until showtime (without trying to be a nuisance).

What you did was rely on your eyes and not your ears which is a possibly the biggest no-no in our line of work.

You learn from your mistakes, and that only makes you a better sound person.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I do alot of live events to tape. If it is a small event like our poster I send the FOH Mixer a Feed from my 788T if it is a larger event. I did a 12 person live reality cooking event I ALWAYS insist they bring in a top notch FOH mixer with his own Speakers, Console and he handles the RF and then sends me a Pre Fader Iso of each one into a Yamaha 0196v which I then feed a recorder with. You need control of the whole signal flow chain to get good audio for both the FOH and yourself. Even a Top notch FOH wireless system is usually too low quality for broadcast. It takes alot of planning but you can get great audio at a live event

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I understand the frustration. I can't even count the number of times I've had problems with house feeds, and I think each time was a different type of problem. Each time like in most other aspects of our job it taught me a good lesson and added one more thing to that ever-expanding mental list of things to double check. Seeing the meters bounce is a good start but checking and double checking is the only way to be sure.

The only assumption I make when getting a feed in a live event is that there very well might be a problem and I should try to have a plan B.

I did a political event once where everything was fine for their 3 hour setup and soundcheck, press showed up in the last 20 minutes before the speech started, everybody patched into the pressbox and suddenly the audio was distorted, every news cameraman ran to the mixer in a panic, I tried to get him to check for level mismatches but he was clearly overwhelmed. Luckily I had gotten special permission from the campaign to privately mic the speaker, so we had the best audio in the house. It was a funny scene though as each network tried to rig their handheld mics into the rapidly-forming pile of mics on the podium. People were very unhappy but the event continued. Afterward I talked to the mixer trying to figure out what happened, somehow he revealed to me that he was subbing for somebody last minute said he wasn't totally familiar with the kit and had some of the 'wrong gear'.This was a relatively high profile event so it was a little surprising.. but you just never know. I've also seen house mixers falling asleep during presentations, another time the guy was deathly ill missing cues and hacking so hard you almost couldn't hear the speaker.. shit happens. Though I've certainly also worked with plenty of knowledgeable, experienced, friendly and accommodating mixers as well who went out of their way to help me even though its not really their job.

I know its not always possible, especially with multiple speakers or depending on the scope of the shoot, but I often try to put my own mic on the main speaker if the event, production, and circumstances allow. I'm rarely happy with the sound of the feed I get anyway, and some non-professional speakers will walk away from podiums if the audience is small, or bang on the mic/podium etc..

In the end I've found that the production will often be understanding if there is a sudden problem with the feed, we are relying on the house mixer after all and in their "house" as has been said, but they will be VERY appreciative if you had a solution or backup when it happens.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

What do you guys think about splitting the mic signal before it hits the FOH mixer?

This is the ideal, but requires more set up time and more gear, and there are some house people who flatly refuse to do it. One way around those guys has been to offer to rent the split from THEM, so they get a rental and they have a splitter they know. These kinds of setups are always tough for lone soundies w/o help--the most interesting doco parts of the shoot are usually happening right when you need to be on the case with the split etc for the live show. I usually try to get the producer to understand that they are doing two things at once sound wise here, and that the right way to do it is to have one soundie dedicated to getting the live show and another doing the doco stuff. Doing both jobs on music shows usually means I miss something one on side or the other--you just cannot be in two places at once.

DO NOT touch the PA guy's gear, maybe not even if they are a friend of yours. That can get you ejected from the gig very quickly. Like I said, you're a guest, act like one.

phil p

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hey guys,

Thank you SO much for all the insightful responses. I can't tell you how helpful this has been.

I want to clear up one thing about me watching his meters as opposed to listening to my levels...he was sending me post-fade signals as opposed to pre-fade because he didn't know how or if he even could switch them to pre-fade. That's why when his faders were down (because he wanted the speakers down, right after laving the talent) I was watching his input levels. I ironically even verified with him that I shouldn't be hearing anything at the moment and he confirmed. If his outputs were set to pre-fade, I would have known right away that there was a problem.

Am I right in assuming that in this situation you would always prefer to receive pre-fade as opposed to post-fade?

The guy was already being pretty trusting w/ you by letting you pull signal from insert outs (where you have the potential to screw up his sound) as opposed to direct outs, bus outs or just a mono mix, with which any mistake you might make (bad cable or adapter etc) would not affect him at all. phil p

I was pulling from his direct outs, not from his insert outs. Can you please explain how I can screw up his sound if I'm getting a feed from his inserts? I really don't know the first thing about inserts.

Thanks,

Ben

Link to comment
Share on other sites

"I want to clear up one thing about me watching his meters as opposed to listening to my levels...he was sending me post-fade signals as opposed to pre-fade because he didn't know how or if he even could switch them to pre-fade."

At that point, alarm bells should have started to ring very loudly. As someone who has worked both as a mixer providing feeds and as a recordist using direct outs, I always give and always ask for pre-fade sends. There's no way in world I'm going to rely on someone else to be awake enough not to miss a mic cue, or to knock a fader and equally, there's no way that I'm going to be the person responsible for screwing up your feed if I make a mistake. As a mixer, I would expect you to make contact with me well before the event with a list of requirements: I would assume that you would be in the building well before the event started, so that any trouble-shooting could be done and that between us we would have sorted out the necessary interconnects so that there's no embarrassing air-gap. And I would know how to set up my desk so that the direct outs were pre-fade.

As the recordist, I would want to know what desk I was connecting to and make sure I had some basic knowledge of that desk before-hand, even if it's only a PDF of the manual on my laptop. I would also ensure that I had the necessary interconnects with me, even if the in-house guy assures me that all is well. If I couldn't get a pre-fade feed, I would do a line check with mics open before the event started: all the mixer has to do is pull back the master faders to the PA system and run the input faders up one by one for you to check if you have signal. You should ask him to do this and he should be happy to do it for you.

On major shows where house PA and broadcast/recording is being handled separately, a mic split is best. That way, you're each responsible for your own foul-ups, unless a mic goes bad, in which case your A2 had better be on the case fast!

Remember that 6P acronym - Perfect Planning Prevents Piss-Poor Performance.

Regards,

John

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hey all,

I've been reading posts on this site religiously for over a year but this is only my second post.

I wanted to share a little story that happened yesterday on a gig to seek some advice to make sure something like this doesn't happen again. I apologize for all the text so the short version is:

I was getting a feed from a house mixer for a live event, whose careless mistake completely ruined the first 7 or so minutes of my recording, though in retrospect, I should have double-checked the connections on his side, despite the extreme carelessness of his mistake. I felt like a jerk, but I held a grudge against the house mixer for the rest of the night. Did I mess up and how could this be avoided in the future? If I am downstream from someone else who might make an error, what kind of precautions (technical, political...) can I take to save my recording and my reputation?

The Long Version:

I've been doing production sound for a little over four years, with a strong background in narrative, but lately I've been doing a lot of interviews, live events, etc. Yesterday's gig was one of the easiest: a live-audience interview that was being taped. It was part of a series of celebrity interviews with a pretty big actor from the 80's and a big client. I was solely responsible for recording the sound (2 lavs and a handheld mic) which was being mixed and handled by the house guy on his own board in the booth.

The house mixer, who was very nice, said he usually gives guys a mono out for everything, but I told him it was important to me to isolate everything as much as possible for my purposes. His mixer had direct outs, inserts, and line outs for each channel, so we tried the direct outs, which sounded a little dirty and a little low to me after testing each mic. I thought maybe there was a pad on them or something so I asked if we could try the line outs, and he graciously repatched the cables for me. It sounded worse than before so I told him I'd prefer to go back to what we had with the direct outs. He again repatched the cables and we waited for the event to begin.

After he laved the talent, I saw the levels on his meters bouncing, and was completely confident everything would be fine. It was quite a shock to me that once the interview began, sound was coming out of the house speakers, but I was receiving absolutely nothing from the board. The producer/shooter saw he wasn't getting any signal from me and he started freaking out too. I immediately told the house mixer that I wasn't getting anything. He abruptly ran out of the booth, leaving me alone with his gear for a solid 5 minutes while I recorded nothingness.

The first question that came to my mind is: Is it OK to mess around with this guy's equipment to try to save my own ass? I do not know the answer to this. It's a sort of ethical dilemma, but my reputation was on the line. If I knew what the problem was, I probably would have fiddled with his gear, but I also didn't want to mess up the live sound for the event.

Finally, the guy returns and sits down at his board as if nothing was wrong. I anxiously reminded him that I was getting NOTHING. He repeatedly told me that this was impossible because nothing had changed. After fiddling around with the connections for another 2 minutes, he realized that I was plugged into the wrong direct outs, which belonged to 2 adjacent unused channels from his board. AKA - When he plugged me back into the direct outs, they were the wrong direct outs. He repatched me to the correct ones and I had signal. I sat there with a grudge for the next 2 hours, knowing that I had an incomplete recording of an interview I would only have one chance at. I knew that the producer/shooter had a shotgun going into his camera as a backup, but it almost didn't matter for me. I felt like I had failed.

And I think I did, because even though I did not make the mistake, something as rudimentary as plugging cables into the correct outputs cost ME my recording. I didn't think I would have to watch this guy to make sure he was plugging my cables into the correct outputs (the same set of outputs from which he was unplugging them to begin with) but that little stupid mistake screwed me.

Is it really on me to check on that kind of stuff (I assume yes, since it's my cable and it's going to my mixer)? Furthermore, is it on me to make sure that this guy is doing his job to the best of his abilities so that I get the best recording possible? What can I do in the future to prevent myself from being so vulnerable to careless errors caused by others (doing sound or anything else), that may not even be under my control? Outside of using my own lavs and sending HIM the signal, how could I have made sure that nothing this guy did could have messed me up? Generally, how would I explain what happened to a producer without playing the blame game but still saving my ass?

In the end, I explained what happened to the producer and he was surprisingly really laid back about it and told me not to worry despite my excessive apologies. The house mixer ditched immediately afterwards without a single word, and that really felt uncool. Did I mess up?

Any and all advice would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks,

Ben

I know that sinking feeling in the gut all too well.

But always verify by listening. He was he one who made the mistake of plugging into the wrong holes, but the film/video sound mixer is responsible for the recording, not the house mixer. Whenever a change like that is made, it is your responsibility to verify. It's interesting that it was noticed that the meters on his equipment bouncing, but that fact that your meters were not bouncing was not noticed.

Then there's the question of why the direct outs "sounded dirty and low". Consoles used for house feeds are often operated way below a 0VU reference level, especially the inputs, and especially during speech. In this case, you would need to adjust your trim accordingly and maybe switch to a mic level. I'm also wondering if the direct outs of the console were prefader (best for your needs) or postfader.

The option I usually choose is to split the signal at the receivers or at the microphone. This removes the house console from the equation almost entirely.

Don't beat yourself up over it. It's not the last time you'll have days like that. Just chalk it up to experience that will make you better.

GT

Link to comment
Share on other sites

" Is it OK to mess around with this guy's equipment to try to save my own ass? "

definitely not!

" I was plugged into the wrong direct outs, " + " even though I did not make the mistake, "

your responsibility... for not testing, and retesting!

" Is it really on me to check on that kind of stuff "

completely... really!

" I saw the levels on his meters bouncing, "

and your meters ?? what did you hear in your headphones ??

" being so vulnerable to careless errors caused by others "

you need an attitude adjustment

" how I can screw up his sound if I'm getting a feed from his inserts? . "

Quite easily, because an insert connection interrupts the (input) signal flow and puts (inserts) your connection and gear in the signal path...

" I really don't know the first thing about inserts. "

thus reinforcing that you have no business touching the equipment... and that is something for you to learn about!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Inserts redirect the signal completely to some outboard gear before returning it back again. If the insert plug isn't completely seated then the mixer could have no feed for that input. The best way is to hit a high quality splitter before the mixer. If that isnt available, then take a pre-fade out when possible. Be thankful the producer was cool. This is a learning experience - not the kind we like, but one we've probably all had. Never rely on someone else to connect cables for you - to a camera, mixer, wireless, whatever. In this case, your job was the recordist, his was the FOH mixer. He was doing his job, that's really all you can expect.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Look at it this way:

A SkyDiver packs his/her own chute.

Why?

I'll answer with another question -- would you trust another SkyDiver to pack your chute?... Would you ever again trust a FoH (or any other) Mixer or Operator for your feed?

I worked with a Camera Op a few months ago who swore to me before we started shooting that any time he switches to the onboard camera mic, he always switches it back to EXT audio source when he finishes his B-roll. He was so adamant, and I wanted to believe him... so I did... we rolled about 10 minutes into an interview before I caught the mistake (of course he forgot to switch it back... and I was stupid enough not to double-check)... ALWAYS... ALWAYS... double (and TRIPLE) check things like this -- if you're not 100% sure, check it again -- even if you checked it 20 minutes ago and walked away... things change, shit happens.

Good thing we weren't skydiving ;)

~tt

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks again everyone. You're all right in saying that the FOH mixer was doing his job and that it's completely on me to check everything I'm relying on, and that I should always have a plan B. I admit that I made a rookie mistake, but I'm glad I was able to learn from it and will be sure to incorporate your excellent advice on the next gig. My job is 100% my responsibility and I take full responsibility for the flaws in my recording. A splitter would have been a really good way to go. I never did touch his gear, but I see now that it would have been completely uncalled for if I had (union rules, putting someone else's job in jeopardy, and how would I like it if someone touched my gear?)

Senator, while I appreciate your response, with all due respect and IMHO the part about my attitude is neither constructive nor do I believe it to be accurate, at least in this context. I know I'm young and have so much to learn, and much, much less experience than the majority of members of this forum, which is why I turn to you for advice and to see if anyone has run into the same problems. I'm not just posting my story to bitch and moan about it, I'm just trying to give you context. For this gig, I wasn't given nearly enough prep time to devise a plan B or some kind of completely independent system, which is why I was literally depending on the FOH mixer's mics, cables, and entire signal flow up to his board (I know, not preferable), as per the producer's request, who has done other gigs as part of this series before, just like this. That's all I meant by being vulnerable to any errors he might make or caused by his gear (really, the venue's gear). (Yes, this only reinforces the idea of having a plan B or using a splitter, or coming up with any way I can make myself independent and safe).

And thanks for the info on inserts.

I learned my lesson. Thank you all for your help.

Cheers

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The other thing I would have done in this scenario is take the offered mono output as well as try for the iso mics. In that way you have an emergency fallback, plus a potentially useful cutting track. In no prep scenarios, sometimes you have just have to accept the mixer's feed for better or worse. Often it is fine, they usually know what they are doing. If you want iso's you absolutely must have the prep time and the kit to do this to your own satisfaction, and with their co-operation, and not rely on the house engineer, they don't owe you anything. By not trusting his mono out, you made a rod for your own back.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If you are going to use splitter transformers make sure there is no phantom power being used on any of the mics. If there is make sure you have splitters that pass phantom. ISO transformers with ground lift are also helpful when interfacing two systems together. Also if you touch the FOH guys gear the old adage " you break it you buy it" goes into effect. Any noise or interuptions get laid off on you. Set up early, test early and then a full FAX right before showtime.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I use insert outs a lot, either on my own (my console) or because the FOH board doesn't have any direct outs (there has been some discussion above about the non-desireability of post-fade or mixed outputs from a PA board). The problem is that inserts are what they say they are--they were designed to be send/receive for outboard gear, and by tapping into each console channel's circuit at that point whatever is on the insert point becomes part of the console pretty much. But you need a single-ended feed--you won't be sending anything back. On consoles that use a single switching TRS jack for the inserts, that jack is usually send on the sleeve and return on the tip. If you jack into that insert, YOU will have the signal but the PA will not at that point. A solution is to "half-jack", ie only put the TRS plug in to the first click--they you get a pickoff of the signal w/o breaking the console's circuit. BUT that is a delicate connection--prone to failing if it is bumped and making a noise in everyone's feed. You see now the level of trust required by the FOH people? And why we like the idea of pre-console splits?

phil p

Link to comment
Share on other sites

"On consoles that use a single switching TRS jack for the inserts, that jack is usually send on the sleeve and return on the tip" though this is not always the case which further reinforces the potential problem using insert connections. I made up XLR to TRS cables dropping the connection to the tip (so as to not have return - send to the console) but even that made me nervous. It has been stated before that if you have the time and cooperation, check and double check every connection to insure that proper signals are going to all the right places.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have been on both sides of this, b/c of my work as an FOH mixer for corporate gack where some recording guy shows up and wanted a chunk of my feed... And I have been the corporate recording guy too.

The solution? Take the mono feed and / or keep a set of XLR and 1/4 to XLR cables in your bag with a cheap recorder like a Zoom H4 that at least has XLR inputs. It isn't a scalpel, but it is a utility knife. Hook that into the duplicates of the main outs. Then, if (when) the signal gets borked... You still have the safety backup in the Zoom. Too many recordings is just the right amount, when your job description is recordist.

Also, use Lithium batteries in the Zoom... Running out of an alkaline in the middle kills your recordings. Oops.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The only assumption I make when getting a feed in a live event is that there very well might be a problem and I should try to have a plan B.

Many a job I've had where the producer told me in advance, "You'll get a feed from the soundboard".

Talking, music, size of venue and what is actually going into the soundboard mix quite often the TV producer doesn't care. Generally if that's what I hear and they don't want to have a conversation with me in advance then I'm left up to my own devices to bring backup options to the shoot and hope the FOH mixer is a nice guy when I ask for something a hour before showtime. Some clients still only want a soundboard feed but want you to run 2 XLRs for a backup line of the same feed essentially...

95% of the time you get a mono mix feed from the soundboard whenever you ask for a feed. Carry 1/4" TRS, RCA, XLR to wireless transmitter input adapter on these jobs. And carry 2 for stereo or as a backup.

If you actually get a direct out from a PA system board you can expect it to be a low signal and noisy. They are doing the PA system solely and your feed is an afterthought so on something like a stage with 3 guys talking on lavs or handheld mics as long as it sounds good on their PA that's all they care about it seems.

In other words many times I find that they are sending low levels to the main mix bus and to the speakers to just have enough volume in the room. This goes completely against how we mix sound: strong signal for the mic pre on each channel and a main mix that is around -20 to -8dBFS peaks. This also allows for good ISO record levels for us. Quite often if there is a problem with the house PA feed I ask them to plug in headphones to listen and 80% of the time they don't even have headphones to listen to their mix or to solo channels even for the setup. I'm talking major NYC hotels for conferences or press events, small and medium press events, medium-sized corporate events.

I wrote about my experience with getting a house feed here:

In the past when allowed I put up a podium clamp and a RE-50 mic as a backup on a wireless. It is not aesthetically pleasing many times though and the Mic splitter sounds _SO_ much better on a cardiod pattern mic they are only inches away from. Keep in mind if you do split a mic at the stage say from a podium if you plan to put it on a wireless you are going to need to amplify it with something like a SoundDevices MM-1 before it goes to that wireless or else the signal from a dynamic handmic will be too low. Trust me I found out the hard way.

note buy these:

for splitting actual hardlined XLR mics at the stage if a small venue

SP1X2 AND SP1X3 MIC SPLITTERS

http://whirlwindusa....3-mic-splitters

Whirlwind also has now:

LINE BALANCER/SPLITTER

http://whirlwindusa....alancersplitter

Whirlwind SP1X3LL Line Level 1x3 Splitter

which B&H has which has a ground lift switch for 2 of the outputs.

= B&H # WHSP1X3LL Mfr# SP1X3LL

which is the model I have. I'm told the circuitry is different than the Mic Splitter which looks the same except for a sticker on the outside (which fell off not before I put gaffer tape on it as a label).

Even when taking a feed at a press event with a PA system and there is a mult press box provided sometimes it has a buzz. You can get rid of it sometimes if you arrive nice and early and actually put one of these Whirlwind SP1X3LL Line Level 1x3 Splitters between the XLR from the FOH and the press mult box. If I find there is a buzz I'll bring over one in my hand and tell the FOH mixer there is a buzz in the feed and offer to place my passive splitter before the mult box and let them know I'll be there the entire duration of the press conference. They are happy to hear I have one.

Usually if there is a podium with a SM58 mic or similar sometimes I'll ask and just go and put a black foam windscreen on it so I don't have to listen to speeches with popped plosives all afternoon. At the end I remove my black foam windscreen again.

On the corporate events where I've been FOH I always plan for an extra mono feed for someone coming in and asking me for one if I am not to provide a mult press box.

As far as direct outs. I had a HOSA 8 Channel 1/4" TRS to XLR 8 foot snake converted to rewire for 1/4" INSERT OUTS to act as pre-fade DIRECT OUTS. I have used this a number of times. Some mixers have INSERT OUTS but not DIRECT OUTS.

The more complicated things are the more planning. If you are doing anything other than getting a mono mix feed you should try to contact the venue and talk with the sound mixer directly in advance. Plan on arriving very early and hope their is time for testing/rehearsal.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...