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Windows software for production recording


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I've been investigating options for production recording with a computer, and haven't found anything that really suits it for windows (and I don't want a new fruit-based computer)

I've been using RME's global record function on Digicheck to do concert recording for some time, the recording is very stable and the metering's excellent. But it doesn't read time code, there are no metadata options and you have to name files when recording stops

REAPER has all the functionality, but it is a full blown DAW and also has many functions which aren't needed on set. Maybe some templates could be useful?

Does anyone have experience with either of these programs or anything else on windows?

I also looked into the hackintosh route but wouldn't trust one to be stable.

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SADiE v6 MTR - but it'l cost you. Should be rock solid, and v6 works native, so you dont need to have any SADiE hardware.

Thanks, didn't know about that- I've used it as an editor before, and it's great (and too expensive for me to afford). I went to a mastering session at Abbey Road around 3 years ago to see the Windows 98 logo come on as they booted up the computer (it was for the Sadie host machine). Will <hat> and see if I can get a price for MTR

No problem with OSX on none apple computers. You are using RME drivers anyways. RME drivers would work 100% the same on Apple or others.

Will look into this a bit more and see whether my laptop will run OSX

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There is no exact equivalent of Boom Recorder and Metacorder for PC--that I've found anyhow, and I have looked quite a bit. I have seen people use ProTools on a PC for production recording, as well as Reaper. I may try Audition for this, out of curiosity. Sadie 6 will run native on a PC w/o Sadie hardware as will Nuendo (and PT 10).

phil p

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I've had a bit more of a look into REAPER, and although it does support metadata- you can't edit/create it in the program.

Samplitude 10 has a BWAV metadata manager (quite buried), although you can only record up to 2 tracks as a single file, without going into a full project. Later versions may have improved this.

I think you can add metadata to wavelab when it's recording (although it won't record that many tracks), if I remember correctly- I don't own a copy though.

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I think it should be obvious by now that there are no really good software only, Windows based, programs designed for production sound recording. There are significant reasons why Boom Recorder and Metacorder are Mac OS only and developed for the Mac platform. There has not been any compelling reason for developers to develop a specialized program (for our relatively small market) and for the Windows platform that does not hold a dominate position in our world. So, Windows users are left with elaborate and complex programs designed primarily for creation and editing, post work, and are not well suited for production recording.

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BTW, two other key issues with laptops:

1) they pretty much force you to a cart-only situation, making them tough in a run-and-gun shoot. This can work if the actors only move within half a block or so, or you have some kind of (quiet) rolling cart to maneuver in position.

2) you still need a crystal-accurate timecode source, like an Ambient or Denecke generator. I have used a Dekecke GR-1 with Metacorder, and it works great -- feed the timecode in through the laptop's mono input, and all the regular audio through a Firewire-connected mixing board. Theoretically, you can feed the timecode into the board, but we found there was audible crosstalk (at least with the little Mackie and Yamaha boards I've used).

For certain applications -- for example, a reality show where you've got upwards of 20 simultaneous wireless, all in one controlled location -- I think Metacorder would be ideal. But I think using a full-blown DAW would be rough on a location shoot.

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BTW, two other key issues with laptops:

1) they pretty much force you to a cart-only situation, making them tough in a run-and-gun shoot. This can work if the actors only move within half a block or so, or you have some kind of (quiet) rolling cart to maneuver in position.

Part of the reason I'm looking at windows system is that I could run it on a very small computer with a small touchscreen monitor, which could potentially be used in a bag. I'm potentially looking at one of there: http://www.fit-pc.com/web/introduction-to-fit-pc3/

but I'd need some suitable software...

2) you still need a crystal-accurate timecode source, like an Ambient or Denecke generator. I have used a Dekecke GR-1 with Metacorder, and it works great -- feed the timecode in through the laptop's mono input, and all the regular audio through a Firewire-connected mixing board. Theoretically, you can feed the timecode into the board, but we found there was audible crosstalk (at least with the little Mackie and Yamaha boards I've used).

I'm onto that, the new GR-2, Ambient generator and Timecode buddy are looking good for this application. Another issue is that a lot of the smaller DC powered interfaces don't have a word clock input.

Putting the TC into the computer's audio input sounds like a good tip- thanks!

In these cases is there any advantage to having an interface which can receive (and sync to) TC input, rather than the software doing it? (MOTU interfaces will do this, and some RME)

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  • 2 weeks later...

Part of the reason I'm looking at windows system is that I could run it on a very small computer with a small touchscreen monitor, which could potentially be used in a bag. I'm potentially looking at one of there: http://www.fit-pc.co...ion-to-fit-pc3/

but I'd need some suitable software...

The problem to me is still the mixer -- how do you deal with multiple audio inputs, mike preamps, changing levels on the fly, and so on. This is not an easy task. Unfortunately, there are reasons why all-in-one solutions like the Nomad or the 788t are more expensive than a laptop, plus are much better-designed for location sound work. I also think you'll find the touchscreen interfaces are not as precise as a dedicated knob, especially really good faders like Penny & Giles and other long-throw pro faders.

I'm onto that, the new GR-2, Ambient generator and Timecode buddy are looking good for this application. Another issue is that a lot of the smaller DC powered interfaces don't have a word clock input.

Yes, the new Denecke generator would be ideal for this. I didn't go with wordclock on my Metacorder set up, but I would have if I had done a simul-record on a standalone recorder as a backup. It's possible locking to AES/EBU inputs would work, but I'd do a lot of tests before committing to that approach.

The only mixer/interfaces I used were the Yamaha 01X and the Mackie 1620 (both excellent via Firewire), and timecode was not a consideration with either device. And again, lack of portability can be a huge problem, unless you have a fairly static shoot.

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Even on a cart a laptop is a cumbersome thing, requiring a good deal of creativity and custom metal work to integrate well (and powering is an issue as well). For a really portable rig---I just don't see how it will work. I think it is possible to make a computer-based recording system work for a bag rig, but not with currently available laptops and tablets. Size, weight, shape, power consumption, RF, the need for one-handed operation, working in inclement weather, etc etc--as was said, this is why specialized recorders for this purpose are so expensive.

I disagree that there is anything about a Mac that makes it inherently better as a platform for production recording, as proved by the Sadie LRX and V6, among others. Our friends at Gallery (Metacorder) and VosGames (Boom Recorder) made an intelligent choice about what laptop most soundies would already have, and made their program for it. Porting it to PC would not get them very many more sales at this point--too bad: I'd like to be able to run BR on my netbook. There are many other very good multitrack pgms for PC, but like most audio programs they are heavily weighted on the post/edit/mix side, and don't have the cool production-centric features of BR and MC.

phil p

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Thanks for the feedback. It's been an interesting exercise, and it seems possible but keep finding it's going to be a good £2000 worth of equipment (or £4000 if Sadie's included- I haven't heard back from them), spread across more devices with more hacking involved and more to go wrong.

And based on the number of channels I usually use everything seems to be pointing towards the Nomad- I'll include a bit of my research just to give an idea of the obstacles

The computers I've found are optimised for field use, don't have any moving parts and will take a range of DC voltages:

Stealth LPC-125LPFM: http://www.stealth.com/littlepc_125_lowpower_fanless_mobile.htm

FitPC2 / FitPC3: http://fit-pc.co.uk/

I don't know how well either of these would work as a Hackintosh

The interfaces (have been looking at RME and MOTU), on the other hand are well built, and will take a range of DC voltages but not quite up to field standards. It also seems impossible to use anything with a locking connector (FW/USB) going to the computer

There's also nothing wrong with Windows for recording, in fact versions of Windows CE and Embedded are used for various mission critical systems (and are in some field recorders, Tascam HD-P2 for example, and I think I read somewhere a while back that SD recorders ran it). I've managed to run Windows embedded on my current laptop with RME Digicheck

Comparing power consumption, it looks like the interface (RME Fireface 400/UC/UCX) will pull about 12W (around the same as an SD788T), and the most efficient computers another 7-12W (depending on load)

Control surfaces also seem to be an issue, especially finding those which are up to being outside and work on DC power. The Euphonix/Avid one looks the best bet size/weight/power wise (for cart use), but there seem to be issues of the plastic cracking. If only the Tascam/Zaxcom/SD ones weren't proprietary...

It'd be possible to build your own using one of Doepfer's kits: http://www.doepfer.de/home_e.htm

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Thanks for the feedback. It's been an interesting exercise, and it seems possible but keep finding it's going to be a good £2000 worth of equipment (or £4000 if Sadie's included- I haven't heard back from them), spread across more devices with more hacking involved and more to go wrong.

And based on the number of channels I usually use everything seems to be pointing towards the Nomad- I'll include a bit of my research just to give an idea of the obstacles

The computers I've found are optimised for field use, don't have any moving parts and will take a range of DC voltages:

Stealth LPC-125LPFM: http://www.stealth.c...less_mobile.htm

FitPC2 / FitPC3: http://fit-pc.co.uk/

I don't know how well either of these would work as a Hackintosh

The interfaces (have been looking at RME and MOTU), on the other hand are well built, and will take a range of DC voltages but not quite up to field standards. It also seems impossible to use anything with a locking connector (FW/USB) going to the computer

There's also nothing wrong with Windows for recording, in fact versions of Windows CE and Embedded are used for various mission critical systems (and are in some field recorders, Tascam HD-P2 for example, and I think I read somewhere a while back that SD recorders ran it). I've managed to run Windows embedded on my current laptop with RME Digicheck

Comparing power consumption, it looks like the interface (RME Fireface 400/UC/UCX) will pull about 12W (around the same as an SD788T), and the most efficient computers another 7-12W (depending on load)

Control surfaces also seem to be an issue, especially finding those which are up to being outside and work on DC power. The Euphonix/Avid one looks the best bet size/weight/power wise (for cart use), but there seem to be issues of the plastic cracking. If only the Tascam/Zaxcom/SD ones weren't proprietary...

It'd be possible to build your own using one of Doepfer's kits: http://www.doepfer.de/home_e.htm

I built a metacorder cart that is easy to move, builds and tears down quickly, and is all inclusive. It took a long time to set up and think out, but I think I got it right.

the avid/euphonix surfaces are just digital faders for use in a daws or editing systems, no audio goes through them. They will not work.

Building your own windows imbedded system is just... (looking for a word.....) Stupid?

if you want to do a metacorder or boom recorder cart, find an old mac on ebay. Even the older powerbooks should work just fine.

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FWIW,

I've been running Metacorder via MOTU's 828mkII on a MacMini with a Lilliput 8" touchscreen for several years now -- it was a bit of an investment, but it's so solid -- and so user friendly -- I really enjoy using it. The Lilliput interface is easy to use -- small image, but I have really good vision so image size isn't an issue.) Granted, there are situations where I'd much rather just have a 788T in a bag, but if you're wanting to build a cart-based, computer-based location recording rig, it might be worth a look.

~tt

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the avid/euphonix surfaces are just digital faders for use in a daws or editing systems, no audio goes through them. They will not work.

Building your own windows imbedded system is just... (looking for a word.....)

The control surfaces would work with the DSP mixer in the interface ( totalmix on RME and cuemix on MOTU)

why is using windows embedded stupid? I tried installing it as an experiment and it was surprisingly straightforward.

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