Paddy

[Paddy123]

Hi all, 

I'm new to this forum so apologies if this is in the wrong section..

 

I've recently left my staff job where I was a sound assistant for 3 and a half years in the outside broadcasting industry. Pretty bad timing with the pandemic, but it is what it is. 

My primary trade going into the freelance market will be working on OB's, but I've always been really interested in getting my foot in the door with the sound recordist role, and being self employed seems like the best way to get about this as I can take up on opportunities without being tied to my previous, very sporadic rota. 

 

Just hoping to find out how others got their foot in the door in this industry, and tips/advice regarding kit (How high end for a newbie, hiring vs buying ect). 

I'm not really expecting to be a fully fledged sound recordist any time soon, I'm seeing this as a fairly slow goal of mine whilst making a living in the OB world. So far I've been using sites such as Mandy to find smaller productions and see whether I can come along free of charge and absorb it all. I feel I've got a lot of transferrable technical skills, but general etiquette on set seems very different to what I'm trained in. 

 

Any of your stories would be greatly appreciated ! 

Cheers

 

Paddy

 

 

 

[IronFilm]

On 8/12/2020 at 10:12 PM, Paddy123 said:

Just hoping to find out how others got their foot in the door in this industry, and tips/advice regarding kit (How high end for a newbie, hiring vs buying ect). 

No need to jump in the deep end spending tens & tens of thousands to buy a complete kit with all the latest gear, just get the basics (boom / mic / 2x wireless / recorder / accessories) for now (rent the rest when occasional bigger jobs coming along that are paying for the extras). You could pick up previous generation gear secondhand (such as 633 or UCR411/UM400) for very cheap secondhand as a great starting point. 
 

 

On 8/12/2020 at 10:12 PM, Paddy123 said:

I'm not really expecting to be a fully fledged sound recordist any time soon, I'm seeing this as a fairly slow goal of mine whilst making a living in the OB world. So far I've been using sites such as Mandy to find smaller productions and see whether I can come along free of charge and absorb it all. I feel I've got a lot of transferrable technical skills, but general etiquette on set seems very different to what I'm trained in. 

Personally I feel it is ok to volunteer for free on the likes of student short films while you still have "zero experience" yourself, but beyond your first year or two then you really ought to stop doing that. Especially in your case, as you've already got years of OB experience you should get up to speed faster than a newbie film student would, then even from (so called) "no budget short films" which you're still learning on yourself, you should at least at a minimum get a kit fee out of it. 

[Paddy123]

Thanks for the reply and advice!

 

Yeah doing volunteering isn't in my plans for the long run, but I really need to experience afew sets before I can start planning any further. I'm boom opping on a low buget film set in 2 weeks which will be a huge leap as I'm sure I'll learn a tonne of things. 

 

Kit wise - I'm thinking of a  416 (Or even 415 looks like an interesting alternative -we used them in OB's occasionally), and G3 RF kit as I'm very comfortable using evo series. My biggest concern is the mixer, as I see all sorts of different views on starter mixers, especially when it comes to the F8 vs 633 topic. 633 looks alot more futureproof but an F8 would open my budget up to invest in other bits of equipment. I'm more willing to invest heavier into Mics/Boom poles as I feel whatever mixer I buy with my budget, I'll most likely be wanting a new one down the line. If the industry is anything like OB's, I know that mic technology/preference hasn't changed in a very long time. OB choice of FX mics has been the 416 for many many years, and can't see it changing anytime soon. 

One option I've been exploring is a 442 running into an f4 or something similar.  This all depends on what I can find in the second hand market though. 

[IronFilm]

12 hours ago, Paddy123 said:

Kit wise - I'm thinking of a  416 (Or even 415 looks like an interesting alternative -we used them in OB's occasionally), and G3 RF kit as I'm very comfortable using evo series. My biggest concern is the mixer, as I see all sorts of different views on starter mixers, especially when it comes to the F8 vs 633 topic. 633 looks alot more futureproof but an F8 would open my budget up to invest in other bits of equipment. 

While of course a 416 (or G3, or 633 for that matter) are still just as good and performing just as well today as they did ten or more years ago, I personally think in the context of 2020 that they relatively speaking are not the fantastic value they once were and someone starting out could buy better. 

I would regard the Sony UWP-D21 as the best sub $1K wireless today if buying new. (disclaimer: don't own the new D21 myself, but I started out on the D11 older) But if buying secondhand then at the sub $1K price point I'd go with Lectro 200 series instead, or even the Lectro 400 (which with the continued march of time, they've depreciated to a point this is now fairly easily achievable. Especially if you're not living in the USA, and looking to buy anything in the "illegal" 600MHz blocks).

 

As for the 416, that also no longer makes so much sense as a starter mic as it did say 25yrs ago. Because in 2020 the world has given us many many more options than when the 416 was released in the 1970's. You could instead buy a brand new Deity S Mic (or a Rode NTG5) *and* a secondhand AT4053b/SCX1/Oktava/whatever for the same price as a 416. And that is undoubtedly a better pair to have in your arsenal than a single 416. And nobody in the final product will be able to tell a Deity S Mic 2 & a 416 apart (in a blind A/B comparison? Yes, perhaps). And once you upgrade your S Mic 2 to a higher end mic (which you'd end up doing even if you got a 416) then the Deity S Mic 2 still serves the role in your kit of being the reliable back up mic just as well as a 416 would. 

Moving on to the topic of recorders, if your budget is under $3K to buy new then clearly the top two contenders are the Zoom F8n or Sound Devices MixPre10, either would be great. Personally, I'd say get the F8n. 

(people could point at negatives to the F8n, and I could point negatives of the MixPre10, and in my opinion the F8n comes out ahead, but I could just more diplomatically say "it is a wash". Thus if they come out equal, why spend 50% more on a MixPre10 over a F8n when the allocation of every penny in your budget matters)

 

If you're buying secondhand, then two more great options (well, more than two more options, but I'd say these are the top two additional choices to add for consideration, I'd for instance regard the 664 as a smarter buy for you than a 633) open up when considering the secondhand sub US$3K price bracket: Zaxcom Nomad and Sound Devices 633.

Have a look as well at this thread which is currently being discussed right now:

https://jwsoundgroup.net/index.php?/topic/36167-looking-to-purchase-my-first-recorder/

 

Look at your total budget right now, is it over US$10K? If it is not, then that $1K price difference between a new Zoom F8n and a secondhand 633 could go a looooong way in "filling in the gaps" or expanding out your starting sound kit. But if you've got a budget which is easily $10K+ then perhaps an extra grand here or there makes less of a major difference. 

(remember too that recorders / wireless / lavs / boom mics are only part of your total budget! Add in powering, cabling, media, bag, and many various accessories and that will all take up a large chunk of your budget as well, so remember to keep plenty of your budget set aside for that)

In short, at a guess (without knowing the exact specifics of your budget or situation you are in now or wish to be in the future) I would recommend in my personal opinion: a new Zoom F8n + 3x channels of secondhand Lectro 400 series + a new Deity S Mic 2 (& an entry level hyper). Plus all the various odds and ends which you need to add onto this, which is the other half of your budget. 

For context on my opinions on recorders, my own journey of what I've purchased has been: Sound Devices 552 > Tascam DR680mk1 > Zoom F4 > Zoom F8n > Zaxcom Maxx > Sound Devices 833 > Sound Devices MixPre3. Thus I feel I've got quite a relatively firm grasp from personal experience in what current options there are for someone's first recorder in 2020, as I've either owned one of them or one of their close cousins. 
(context of shotguns I've owned or long term borrowed: NTG2 > ME66 > 416 > CS3e > S Mic 2 > CS1e > AT4073a > MKH60 , and I'm possibly getting that order slightly wrong and probably forgetting at least a couple as well. The CS3e is still my favorite, but the MKH60 gets used a lot too)

 

12 hours ago, Paddy123 said:

If the industry is anything like OB's, I know that mic technology/preference hasn't changed in a very long time. OB choice of FX mics has been the 416 for many many years, and can't see it changing anytime soon. 

 

There are a very wide range of mics that get used on film sets, of course Sennheiser has their more modern MKH60 & 8060 as well, but also there are the other brands of DPA/Sanken/Schoeps/Neumann/etc which are all popular too. (and each of those brands have multiple mics options as well)

Nobody will be specifically requesting a 416 from you. The only weird rare scenario this could happen is perhaps if a producer in the past got burnt by someone using a kit of a Zoom H5 + Rode NTG2 + Saramonic wireless, thus they attempt to enforce "a professional standard kit" on the next person they hire (in reality the producer is clueless, and maybe just googled "professional shotgun"). What is the correct reaction to this, to rush out and purchase a 416 to please this one misguided ignorant producer instead of just using your DPA 4017b that you recently got? No, of course not! They don't really want a 416, the producer actually just wants to be reassured they're hiring a competent professional who will get the job done, so answer that question instead. (note: this was an entirely hypothetical scenario! Has never happened to me. And I don't think buying a 416 for this scenario is worth it, for the same reason I don't buy Asteroid Strike Insurance)

 

12 hours ago, Paddy123 said:

One option I've been exploring is a 442 running into an f4 or something similar.  This all depends on what I can find in the second hand market though. 

Personally I feel like that approach massively increases the weight of your bag and introduces another point of failure, I never used my 552/F4 together (as it wasn't like before when I paired the 552/DR680 together, as that I could feel was worthwhile in the leap forward over the naked Tascam DR680mk1 by itself. But the F4 was a different beast, and it was already a big step forward over a DR680mk1).

But again, that's just my personal opinion, I've got a good friend who runs his 552/F8 combo together all the time.