jawharp

I'm almost done with a windows version of the app that controls a single 788 via usb.  Multiple unit control over USB is limited to basic CLink broadcast commands like roll and cut, but I currently have a way I could hook up the 788's CLink port to a router with a $50 RS232 to ethernet/wifi adapter so it could be discoverable by an iPad/Android Tablet and you could control multiple linked units with it.  I don't currently have a Mac to write an iPad app on though.

Once the Windows usb app is done, I can post it here as a basic test app for funtionality/bugs before writing the actual iOS/Android versions cause those would take a bit longer since I'd have to learn their platforms a bit more.

Okay cool.  It seems like I'm not the only one looking for a solution to this.  I've started writing a library in C# for interacting with a 788T over usb and so far it's been pretty successful.  Using the USB disables the C. Link In jack on the back but it seems like the C. Link Out still sends "Broadcast All" messages to other machines attached to it.  So theoretically, you should be able to not only roll/cut all of them, but also sync settings like Date/Time, file names, recording specs, etc. to the whole C. Link network.  I don't think accessing each machine seperately works over C. Link though if you're going through USB, you can only send commands to all of them at once.

Once I get it working I'll write a small windows test app I can post here to see if it works anywhere besides my desk haha

Crap.  Yeah looking at it now, it looks like Apple doesn't allow direct serial communication through an iDevice's lightning/usb port.  While I am unsurprised, it is still frustrating.

I think an external device using a serial to ethernet module would work fine and you could just connect the 788 to a wireless router.  Once you connected an iPad to the wireless network, thr app could be able to find the 778 on the network no problem.  That's exactly how I'm doing it now with my hardline cl-wifi.  Once I get my library for talking to the 788 done, I'll look at what's involved in making an iOS network app.  

No, mine's not web based it's all uart over the usb connection. 

Though, the CL-Wifi is basically just an ethernet to uart converter that hosts a wireless network.  Once I plugged my hardwired CL-Wifi into my separate wireless router, I was able to run the CL-Wifi app on my ipad connected to that router's wifi and that worked basically as well as a hardline.  I think the main issue with the CL-Wifi's poor connectivity was the wifi module they chose for the hardware.  It seemed like it couldn't keep up, or would just go to sleep/disconnect for no reason.

If the ambient box connects to the 664 by a usb port, I wouldn't be surprised if it's using something similar to the 7 series' C. Link standard to communicate with it.  I don't have one to test with, though so I can't speak for the 664.

Hello people,

A while back I posted about the hardwired CL-Wifi that I made that works much better than the wireless one, and people seemed to like the idea but it was pretty hacky.  In setting up an ethernet network on my cart, I realized that the IP address of the CL-Wifi is hardcoded into the app, so I couldn't get it to reliably be a part of my cart's network.  I wanted to see if I could write a Windows Forms app that controlled the 788T via the C. Link port, and in the process discovered that all of this can be done over a hardline on the 788's usb port.  

I've been able to successfully send commands to it and get responses from it using nothing more than a usb cable from my laptop.  I was tossing the idea around of basically re-writing the CL-Wifi app for windows to use on my cart PC via remote desktop on my ipad.  This isn't the most plug and play setup, but it works for me.  A more plug and play type of setup would be a native android/ios app that can control a 788T via usb directly.  The app would be able to do everything the CL-Wifi app could do.  I guess my question is does anyone still use their 788 besides me who would be interested in something like an app that controls a 788T via a tablet/ipad?  

Hey Guys,

I'm going through my stuff and was testing out my CL-8.  I'm sending tone to my 788 that it's attached to from my lectro receiver.  When I adjust the fader on the CL-8, I hear some kind of digital or harmonic artifact while the tone is running.  I thought it might just be in the headphone circuit or something, but I did a test and it is being recorded.  Here's a sample of what I'm talking about:

https://file.io/zu2r3cSp6ufU

Does anyone know if this is normal with a CL-8?  The only thing i can think of is that it's adjusting it in steps instead of like an analog fader and causing some sort of harmonic to be audible.  When I adjust the faders with a mic plugged in I don't hear anything, but I wanted to see if anyone knew if this is normal or if my CL-8 might be toast.

Thanks

1 hour ago, Dalton Patterson said:

Now that it has been determined that backwards compatibility is not "Nonsense". Could the OP kindly change the title of this thread? If it is left as is, it implies the manufacturer has done something wrong which is clearly not the case. 

 

And then there is this…From 2017...

Block 470/19 Frequency overlap explained

 

 

 

Lectrosonics took the time to create these colorful press releases to explain this exact issue. 

 

First post and title edited as per your request.

10 hours ago, JonG said:

Pretty much the whole time. The title of your initial rant for one, then the nature at which you were ungrateful that the members here aren’t specifically here to serve you. 

Come on man, you're only responding to part of what I said and you took it out of context.  I still can't figure out why it's such a mystery that someone might be irritated if instead of trying to answer a question they were asking, they instead got an earfull of someone sound-splaining something completely off topic just for the sake of hearing their own voice.

54 minutes ago, Constantin said:

Maybe the problem is that you only come here when you have a problem. Again, makes it feel like you’re confusing this with customer services. Maybe you, too, could help others with their issues or entertain us with stories from the past or by not directly answering a question.

I feel like I've helped as many people as I could have in the time I've been a member here.  I helped them by answering their questions if I had something to add, adding to a discussion if I had something relevant to say, and by keeping all of my humble brags about screwdrivers to myself.  Maybe it's just my personality.  Anyways, I apologize for not being more eloquent and riveting when the devices I've spent a house's worth of money on fail when I need them to work the most due to an obscure design limitation.

11 hours ago, JonG said:

You are being paid to know your equipment as a technician and expert in your field. If you do not agree with this statement, then bow out and retire.

Gentlemen, Colleagues, and Friends,

It is with bowed head and heavy heart that I come before you today at this, my darkest hour.  I will be ending my endeavors into the world of production sound mixing.  Verily, my career, if one can label it as such, has been nothing short of a farce.  I was a fool to believe that I too could become the spitting image of a perfect sound man.  I still hear his voice in the darkness, beckoning me with his siren song: "I lost picture," he cackles.  "You know which bathroom we can use?" he whispers to me in the dark of night.  But I can no longer pay him heed.  For I have sinned against god, country, and every man, woman, and child with a pair of headphones and a ponytail.  I have overlooked the Lectrosonics Block 470/19 overlap and its effects on A1 frequency selection via the Venue2's menus.  Even seeing it now, written on this bare scrap of parchment, I can't believe it with my own eyes.  How could I have been so daft?  I do not deserve to sip from the cup of mixers.  The shadows will be my home.  I shall exist along side the murders, rapists, and Steadi G.  There I will remain, fetching coffees and changing batteries for the rest of my days.  It is as the Mariner warned the Wedding Guest, "...and a thousand thousand slimy things/lived on; and so did I." 

As for the future, not all is lost.  There's no way of knowing what god planned for me back when he birthed the cosmos all those millennia ago on his ancient hex screws in the sky.  But heed my warning: beware the Lectrosonics Block 470/19 overlap and its effects on A1 frequency selection via the Venue2's menus.  I would not wish this horrible existence on even my worst of enemies.  

Godspeed,

The Boy Who Dreamed

6 hours ago, JonG said:

I feel sorry for anybody that hires someone this ill prepared. 

Good lookin' out.  I'm gonna go write "knows about the Lectrosonics block 470/19 overlap and it's effect on A1 transmitter frequency selection" on the bottom of my resume.

1 hour ago, Constantin said:

 t’s more about the attitude. like Chris said it feels a bit like you’re treating this site like customer service. Although I be lt if had actually called customer service you would’ve been more polite and would’ve gotten an answer too.

At what point did I give attitude to anyone who was actually trying to help me?  I called one guy's unrelated comments about theorized set politics a "weird flex," and pointed out how the story about dials and screwdrivers had nothing to do with what anyone was talking about.  Never in this entire thread did I give "attitude" to anyone trying to help me or talk about this problem.

This whole customer service thing is confusing the hell out of me.  How was I supposed to start this discussion besides asking for help?  "Colleagues and friends, I hope my internet forum post finds you well.  I was hoping to assess your thoughts and pontifications regarding a conundrum I've been having in regards to my shit not working."  

I never demanded anything from anyone and only expressed my frustration and asked if anyone had any input that might help me with the problem I was having.  Because that's usually when I post here.  When I have problems I think my peers can help me figure out.  I'm sorry I don't enjoy spending my afternoons blowing smoke up other sound mixer's asses or sucking up to the manufacturers of these things like it's going to get me free shit some day.

1 hour ago, Constantin said:

 And why do you care so much if someone wants to regale us with stories from the past? There’s no harm in that and it may serve as a mnemonic device for others or whoever to remember the block 470/19 issue by. 

Because his story had nothing to do with anything I was talking about, and was clearly a lame attempt at trying to belittle my problem without providing any sort of explanation or information that might help me or others with the same problem.  If you know any reason why someone would share that specific anecdote in this thread, I'm all ears.

9 hours ago, LarryF said:

The pilot tones were chosen by the hex switch setting on the much older equipment (200 and 400 series). If the two 16 position switches were set at A-12 on any block, the pilot tone for A-12 was chosen. To be specific A-12 on block 21 would have the same pilot tone frequency as A-12 on block 22. This didn't cause problems because the carriers of the blocks were separated by at least 25.6 MHz. Choosing the pilot tone based on the hex switch settings saved lots of memory, which early on was in short supply. Block 470 introduced problems since identical carrier frequencies on overlapping blocks had different hex switch settings. With newer Lectro gear covering multiple blocks this became a "Gotcha".  Today with new processors with LCD displays and more memory, we wouldn't have done it that way. I do think we could have made better decisions about block 470 even with the old gear. However, once we screwed up, continuing compatibilty forced us into living with it. "RTFM" is not really really an excuse for a poor decision but there you have it. 

Best Regards,

Larry Fisher

That all makes complete sense, I just never would have guessed it was a thing.  I may be starting my upgrade to the newer digital Lectro stuff sooner than I thought.

10 hours ago, chris_bollard said:

Said like you think JW is part of customer service. In all the time you have spent ranting here you could have used the Lectro white papers and 'solved' it all by yourself. Good luck moving forward - things are getting more complicated, not simpler. 

IMO JW is a great and generous resource for professionals 👍🏻

Since when is calling out one person for acting like a chode a rant?  Is it cause I curse a lot?  I'll admit I was and am pretty pissed that I now have to babysit my transmitters to make sure they're not screwing themselves up.  This also lowers my trust in the Smartscan feature.  I really liked how I could just set it and forget it while I prepped the rest of my stuff, but now I have to babysit that too to make sure it's not screwing anything up. 

You're right, the whitepapers probably would have had the information I needed, but don't pretend like the explanation to this problem would have been on the first page in bold lettering.  It's kind of hard to sift through whitepapers at work. 

Regardless, the fact that this problem exists is stupid.  The guy who made the damn things said it himself.  I'm not being unreasonable just because I say "fuck" a lot.

Again, thanks to everyone who helped answer my questions.  And for anyone I made feel icky by using the devil's adjectives, I don't really know what else to tell you besides you can always just stop reading my posts.

6 hours ago, Johnny Karlsson said:

Well, it’s one way of looking at it, but otoh- I think it’s pretty cool that I can use my Block 19 SMVs with the SRC, and even DSQD receivers

Right, that makes sense, but the part I'm confused about is why the newer stuff that covers all the frequencies anyway is even dependent on a setting involving blocks.  It doesn't make any sense that an A1 receiver getting signal from an A1 transmitter even needs to deal with blocks.  All it does is create potential for this problem.  I don't see the benefit to having blocks matter on any wideband gear if it's not even dependent on blocks in the first place.

The only situation I can see that benefits from having 2 different versions of those frequencies on a receiver is if you were using both a block 19 and block 470 transmitter both set to one of the overlapping frequencies.  But even then, if they're each on a separate frequency, why does the block even matter?  Is it there in case they're both set to the same frequency, but on different blocks?  I can't think of any practical use for having 2 transmitters, one block 19 and one block 470, both set to the same frequency on different blocks.

1 hour ago, BAB414 said:

I always wondered what the F stood for in RTFM! Thanks.

 

There are just a couple quirks with the Venue 2 that I've learned to look out for. One of them goes like this:

I have my Channel 5 Tx setting set to B Band because sometimes I use a block 21 Tx, sometimes I use a block 22 Tx. My channel 6 Tx is set to block 21 only (narrow band) in the Venue. When I switch to ratio diversity mode and then switch back, I have to manually reset the channel 6 block settings because it has taken on the channel 5 block settings. Switching to diversity mode altered the channel settings even after you go back to switch mode.

Also good to know, thanks.  I'm going to try and test today to see if the smart scan feature changes the block setting today when I get to work.  I'll let you guys know how it goes.

1 hour ago, Johnny Karlsson said:

Dude, calm down. I think everyone here has tried to help you. A simple “thank You “ would probably work better if you think you may ever need advice again. Keep in mind we’re a discussion group, nobody here works in customer service, nor does anyone here owe you anything. This kind of comment just makes people wanna say things like “do your own homework “ or “read the fabulous manual.”

First off, the T-Swift thing was solid.  

Also I never said anyone here owes me anything, or that I wanted to start a discussion about feelings and seniority.  I asked a simple technical question and got a concrete answer from 2 of my peers.  I responded by saying I learned something, and thanked the people who actually answered me instead of trying to dazzle me with exciting tales of the screwdrivers and dials of old. 

All in all, people who wanted to respond responded, and I'm not really sure why me being pissed about being needlessly lectured to is so upsetting.  I feel like that's a pretty universal thing that pisses everyone off.

As far as I'm concerned this topic is closed cause my question was answered.  Thanks to those who helped!

1 hour ago, Johnny Karlsson said:

IIRC, if you are scrolling up the frequencies starting from B470, you will be in 470 until you get up to B19 only freqs. Likewise if you are scrolling down from B19, you will stay in 19 until you get low enough to hit freqs that are 470 only.

That's a super weird thing that I didn't know.  I'm not sure how it got set on mine since I used the smart scan feature.  Unless it matters which direction it's changing it?  Like if you start in a BLK 19 frequency and it selects one lower maybe it does the same thing as when you scroll it lower.  I'll check that out tomorrow.

1 hour ago, BAB414 said:

I always make sure when I'm in that overlap range to check which block I'm in. Just one extra step but takes less than a second.

 

Also, A band is not a block and should not be referred to as such (makes things more confusing). It's a band, containing 3 blocks. ['the more you know' rainbow]

In case anyone's wondering what an answer to a question looks like it's this. 

Notice how he's not wasting anyone's time with condescending remarks about people's feelings in situations they weren't involved in.  I guess the old timers lost their ability to answer questions back in the "old days" when T-Swift was breaking out.

Thanks!

27 minutes ago, Dalton Patterson said:

Print a label out of a P-touch label maker that says (486.400-495.600 don't use this shit on B470) 

Are you saying not to use those frequencies at all?  Cause those are the clearest in my area so I kind of have to.  

If you're saying not to set my receivers to use the block 470 versions of those frequencies, that's exactly what I've been asking how to do.  That was the original question before people started pandering me with stories where they call the mid-2000's the "old days."  If you know how to do that, I would love to know how to do it on a Venue2 with wideband receivers on A1.

7 minutes ago, Boomboom said:

Just never ever use freqs between 486.400 and 495.600 . 

Use a P-Touch to put those freqs somewhere you could easily check at any time.

what?

I still have no idea how it changed in the first place.  I've tried to manually recreate the problem, but it always defaults to the block 470 version of the frequency.  The frequency was selected using the "smart scan" feature.

So... back to my original question:

Is there any way I can make sure this doesn't happen again?

51 minutes ago, Axel Mishael said:

In any moment did you use the lectro remote on any other transmitter that might caused that transmitter to be changed by accident?

Not that I know of.  I don't use the remote and all my other transmitters are on block A1.

4 minutes ago, codyman said:

Because "A1" is just shorthand for Blocks 470, 19, 20.  They aren't "old blocks".  They literally are the blocks.

Eyyyyy!   An answer!   Thanks

I feel like maybe I'm not making myself clear enough and that's why people feel like they need to lecture me with their set stories.  I'll try to explain it better:

Lectrosonics's wideband gear is available on blocks A1 and B1.  These blocks are made up of many frequencies which encompass multiple old blocks that were used before blocks A1 and B1 were available.

Why does all of my new gear, all on block A1, give a shit about the old blocks?

25 minutes ago, tourtelot said:

First off, production "freak-out" is not your problem.

It is cause they're all dumb and will fire you even if you're right.  Came here for answers, not weird flexes.

Is there any way to disable this shit?

**EDIT** Since people seem to be confused about what my original question was, I've made it bold.  It's a question that has nothing to do with a lack of knowledge about the 470/19 overlap existing or backwards compatibility.  It's just me being pissed off and asking how this setting on my Venue2 changed without me voluntarily changing it, and how I can prevent it in the future.  That's it.******

This is absolutely unacceptable.  I've never changed any block settings on anything in my kit.  Production was behind and in full blown freak out mode, so I wired an actor in her dressing room.  They rushed her to set for her scene, and I got absolutely no audio from her receiver.  Full RF bars, no audio.  Double checked her pack's settings, verified that the pack itself was receiving audio, double checked receiver's frequency setting, switched out her pack.  Nothing.  Just full RF bars with no audio.

Finally tried a new receiver module after I held up production for 10 minutes and lo and behold it received the signal and audio no problem.  Took me another 10 minutes to notice that the non-working receiver was set to the correct frequency but the wrong block??

I've never changed anything like that anywhere on my gear.  ALL of my wireless is block A1.  How the hell did this happen?  If this is a software thing, it should be fixed in the next update.  This is the dumbest shit I've ever seen.  It was set to the right frequency and receiving signal.  The fact that that's not enough is mind blowing and ass backwards.

How do I make sure this never changes again?

Do you know anywhere I can get any more info on it?  I'm curious if it accepts other commands besides just changing frequencies.

Hey,

I was wondering if anyone with a Sound Devices CL-8 or CL-12 knows what their device ID's are when plugged into a computer.  I'm working on a way to make my 788 think there's one connected so I can get access to the 788's built in slate mic.

Anyone willing to screenshot them and send them to me?

Thanks