New Guy & 695

[Tig Moore]

hey fellow audio gents. i am new to this site, hoping to gain some practical knowledge.

i have been a working sound engineer for 22 years in the concert business. i am hope to join 695.

a lot of the shows i work on have been filmed for TV, News, Film, Concert DVD's. i am gathering all my records now to to come up to the 100 days mark. the problem i may have is:

often i have no idea what these people at my shows are filming for. my boss will give me a letter that the show was filmed and they took a "board feed" from me. will this be a problem?

any other advice when starting the 695 process is helpful too.

thanks!

Tig

 

[old school]

Hey Tig, welcome to the site.

Contract Services will be your 1st stop. They administer all the requirements and paper work. Check out their web site. Local 695 is the 2nd stop. Best of luck.

CrewC

[studiomprd]

Hi, and welcome...

There is another thread where the same question just came up.

[Tig Moore]

studiomprd - i read that other thread. you mentioned that $$$$ is a factor in whether they approve your paperwork or not.

what did you mean? if i can afford a higher "buy in" does my paperwork suddenly get approved?

this all seems so incredibly difficult to me.  i don't understand why they don't want qualified people in the union?

tig

[studiomprd]

" what did you mean? "

simple:  joining and remaining a member requires some $$$...

there is typically a substantial initiation fee, and noticeable quarterly dues;  the IATSE 695 is not a hiring hall, and they do not get you gigs.

 

actually, the Industry Experience Roster, which is actually maintained by the employers, and administered by their "Contract Services" folks is somewhat separate, but interlocked  To get on the Roster, you need to meet their requirements of industry experience,  then IATSE is typically glad to get your $$, and you are then able to solicit and accept union gigs.  you are in competition with a lot of experienced members...

 

 

" why they don't want qualified people in the union? "

It used to be particularly bad, now not so much "protection-ism"...

this is sometimes discussed,  frequently kept quiet, but words like nepotism and self-interest would come up...

 

Meet the requirements,  bring the $$, go look for the gigs..."break-a-leg"

Edited April 24, 2013 by studiomprd

[RPSharman]

i don't understand why they don't want qualified people in the union?

tig

There are lots of qualified people in the union. Thousands. And way more than the Los Angeles industry can support.

That said, collecting $3500 (or whatever the fee is these days) and having members who might contribute hours and who will likely not qualify for benefits is the dream of the IA brass. Self preservation. The union wants you.

Contract services is a separate entity in place to ensure that people who join the union are qualified to do the work for which they might be hired. They protect the employers. That's why it's much harder to get on the industry experience roster than it is to be welcomed by the union.

Robert

[Laurence]

Tig, the IA doesn't actually dream of people joining the union and then failing to qualify for health insurance.  But what that comment does refer to is the reality that by simply paying perhaps $50 per month for dues, the IA will not provide you and your family with something like $500 per month's worth of health insurance.  Nice as that would be, the math is impossible.  The health insurance is backed by payments made by the Producers, some of which are based on the hours that you work.  If you don't work much, then the contributions made on your behalf are miniscule and you won't get the insurance.  But if you work a couple of days a week, you will qualify.  Try finding another job with the bar for health benefits set so low and the quality of the health plan... for both you and your family... so high.

[studiomprd]

" the IA doesn't actually dream of people joining the union and then failing to qualify for health insurance. "

but they do count on it...

and even though they have recently raised the bar:

" Try finding another job with the bar for health benefits set so low and the quality of the health plan so high. "
 

[RPSharman]

I wasn't just talking about health benefits.

And lots of members with ample experience fail to qualify, as "easy" as you say it is.

The union has done nothing to improve the lives of its members in the recent past, and has simply claimed "it could be worse" or "it's way better than most people get" as its claim of victory.

But I will post no more. This line of discussion gets me in trouble.

If you're moving to Los Angeles, and want to work on bigger TV shows or movies or commercials, you'll need to get into the union. But union membership and employment are two very different things, as discussed regularly. Search the threads.

Best of luck,

Robert

[Tig Moore]

hey guys, am i  understanding correctly? i could submit my 100 day paperwork, have it accepted by 695, pay my rather large "buy in" and not be eligible to work because the experience roster?

 

once the union accepts my 100 days and money, i am member and can work union gigs, right???

i am not concerned with insurance at this point in my life, i just want to switch from touring and live covert audio union live audio so my income is based in LA rather being away from my family all the time.

 

i really appreciate all your comments and help! this is all somewhat confusing to me, as i have never dealt with this sort of bureaucracy. 

[Laurence]

Contract Services is very particular but they really only require one thing... proof that you have experience doing a job that is covered by the contracts.  If you have clear proof, the path to membership, though filled with paperwork, is actually quite easy.  If the proof is not so clear, however, neither is the path to membership.  Regarding Robert's comments, it's unfortunate to hear him say that the union has done nothing to improve lives when the opposite is so true and you will hear that from the majority of union members.  Also, it pains me even more to hear someone reduce the discussion of whether to be or not to be in a union to nothing but a comment about needing to be in the union in order to work on the bigger shows.  While that may be true, the reason to be in this union... or any union... is so much greater than that.

[Laurence]

The 100 days pertains to getting on the Roster, which is a list maintained by Contract Services.  The union membership is the money part with Local 695.  Yes, if you pay your money to the Local to join the union but don't prove your days to get on the Roster at Contract Services, you may have problems getting union work.  But it sounds like you may be able to achieve both requirements... union membership and Roster placement.  It probably depends mostly on being able to show that the music work you did was film/television production work.

[RPSharman]

You don't have to give 695 $$ before you prove your experience for the roster. You can make sure you qualify first, then pay up second.

But that said, this production calls unions and contract services to verify good standing (dues paid and roster placement and safety classes taken), and regularly discovers day-players to be lacking some or all of the above. Yet these guys work all the time. It took them weeks of threatening just to get the whole regular crew paid up and safety cleared.

So while roster placement and payment of dues are required, it doesn't seem to stop some people from working union shows without them.

I have been a member of 695 since 1995, and I doubt my views are unique or in the minority. It'd be impossible to know how the majority feel, however, since a majority of members don't vote or make their opinions known. A majority of members I know feel the way I do. A mojority of the members Lawrence know feel the way he does. Do with that information what you will.

Robert

[Laurence]

Robert, have you been calling the Local to report those violations every time you see one?

[RPSharman]

Robert, have you been calling the Local to report those violations every time you see one?

I don't see violations. My daughter is APOC and calls union and CSA for every new hire. She just tells me how unbelievable it is how often she finds people are delinquent, etc. The employees are all designated as "no hires" until fixed. She takes the responsibility quite seriously, as she should.

Robert

[Laurence]

Yes, she should take it seriously.  She's required by contract to verify eligibility for employment before hiring.  So if the employer is fulfilling their obligation, the situation you describe would never happen.  If the employer and the employee are cheating, then it's up to crew members to inform the Locals so it can be fixed.  But there's nothing particularly significant in this little tangent.

[studiomprd]

" am i  understanding correctly? "

no,  which is why you should contact CSA and L695 for clear, accurate information and understandable answers to all of your specific questions, and specific instructions for you to follow.

While the information here is generally correct, as you note, there are different perspectives and slants, leaving you  at least a bit confused....

As for the benefits and values discussion,  no matter how one feels about it,  a current IATSE membership card, along with an up to date safety passport, and roster placement, is the ticket to many of the better gigs, " But union membership and (union) employment are two very different things, ".

[David Waelder]

The relationship between union membership, roster status and eligibility for employment can be a bit confusing. I've posted on this topic before so, rather than rehash the subject from scratch, I did a Google search and located a previous post. From September 2011:

 

It's not surprising that there is confusion regarding union membership and being listed on the Roster. The two matters are separate issues but are also inextricably interlinked. And, so far as I know, there is no candid history or explanation of how it all works. Consequently, I have to caution readers to accept my explanation with the understanding that it is unofficial and, perhaps, flawed.

Workers in film production struggled for years for recognition from the studios and finally managed it in the thirties. For a more detailed account, go to the 695 Quarterly and read Scott Smith's history of the Local:
http://695quarterly....revious-issues/

The relevant issues are Fall 2010 and Winter 2011.

Soon after recognizing the union, producers began to complain that departments were being stuffed with featherbedding workers who had no knowledge of the crafts. If a "grip" were sent to the truck for a flag, he was likely to waste time looking about for something with stars and stripes. It was still a Depression time and there was considerable pressure for people working to find a place for friends, neighbors and relatives.

In negotiation with the various locals, the producers secured an agreement that crew people hired would all have relevant experience. To police this they formed an independent agency, the Contract Services Administration Trust Fund.
http://www.csatf.org/

The CSATF operates under contract from both the AMPTP (producers) and the various IATSE locals. It is bound by the collective bargaining agreement and may not change any article without agreement from both the producers and the affected locals. They maintain an eligibility roster of people who have production experience in particular crafts. This is not the same as people who are members of a particular crafts union.

Membership in the various union locals is not directly related to a listing on the Roster. It is possible to join a union local but not be listed on the Roster and it is possible to be on the Roster and not be a member of the any IATSE local. But being listed on the Roster is a prerequisite for being employed by any signatory company to the Basic Agreement between producers and the IATSE.

During the 50s and 60s as work opportunities improved there was really no need for an outside organization to confirm the work experience of production labor. Also, the breakdown of the studio system gave the producers of individual projects considerably more direct authority over hires and fires. But some union locals, anxious to keep their membership doors closed to new applicants so they wouldn't have to share limited job opportunities with all comers, seized on the Contract Services agreement as a way to restrict membership. Union eligibility is regulated by the Taft-Hartley Act so no local could brazenly deny membership to an applicant. But, they could use the agreement with Contract Services as a means to restrict eligibility for work assignments. It's a very difficult nut to crack since the CSATF is contractually restricted from making any alterations without agreement from all parties.

Presently, many locals (most?) have a much more open membership policy. In the past, a Roster listing required thirty days of continuous employment with a union signatory company. And employment with a signatory company required current Roster status - a Catch-22. Now many locals have negotiated agreements with the AMPTP and the CSATF that accept 100 days of employment on non-IATSE projects in lieu of the thirty days with a signatory company. (Or a variation on that theme - it does vary a bit from local to local) I believe some locals (don't know how many) still use CSATF to effectively restrict their memberships.

David

 

The whole thread is available here:

 

A few posts below mine Laurence said that the best way to get into the union would be to accept a position on a non-union film and work to get it organized. Still true.

[RPSharman]

A few posts below mine Laurence said that the best way to get into the union would be to accept a position on a non-union film and work to get it organized. Still true.

True. Unfortunately, with the introduction of the Tier 0 and "new media" agreements, which allow current union members to be paid minimum wage, you'd be pressed to find a non-union production with any hope of being organized.

[studiomprd]

" you'd be pressed to find a non-union production with any hope of being organized. "

I disagree, with this statement, and I do not see the cause and effect that was implied.

there have actually been several successful actions resulting in contracts, and a lot of larger productions begin preproduction unaffiliated, but sign contracts before principle photography

[Tig Moore]

thanks for all your help gentlemen. today is my  appointment at 695 to submit my 100 days paperwork.

next stop is contract services office to submit there. with some hope and a little luck, i will get to meet some of you on a job....

cheers!

tig

 

[old school]

Way to go Tig. Congrats.

CrewC

[Marc Wielage]

True. Unfortunately, with the introduction of the Tier 0 and "new media" agreements, which allow current union members to be paid minimum wage, you'd be pressed to find a non-union production with any hope of being organized.

 

[Tig Moore]

Hey Sound Gents, 

I am proud to say "I got In!"

i am member of local 695. Thanks for all the help and advice.

question: I am also on the Work Experience Roster with contract services, but the 695 websites says I am not. Anyone know how to get that changed?

 

Now the fun part, getting work. I hope to meet you all soon.

Thanks Again, 

Tig

 

[RPSharman]

Congrats, Tig.

Not an easy accomplishment.

Robert