stevegrider Posted October 15, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 15, 2014 In that one elevator scene, it looked two frames out to me. I spent a decade in post before deciding to do location work full-time, so I didn't just pull that specific figure out of thin air. I could be totally wrong, I am not The Master of the Cinematic Universe. Check the movie out (if you haven't already) and see if you agree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Visser Posted October 15, 2014 Report Share Posted October 15, 2014 looked like 2.2 frames to me. (I haven't even seen the movie yet) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrider Posted October 15, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 15, 2014 :oD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Blankenship Posted October 15, 2014 Report Share Posted October 15, 2014 Where were you sitting in the theater? Are you aware that for approximately every twelve rows further back you sit, the sound is delayed by a frame? Were you in the twenty-fourth row? (Figuring about 4ft per row, 12 rows = 48ft, 48ft = approx. 1 frame at 24fps) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrider Posted October 15, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 15, 2014 I was sitting at the back of the theater, but I did not notice the sync being off for the entire film, just a couple of scenes in the first half of the movie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Wielage Posted October 16, 2014 Report Share Posted October 16, 2014 I just attended a 2-1/2 hour seminar on Gone Girl tonight at the Arclight/Hollywood, where the post team (editor, post supervisor, DI supervisor, project supervisor, and colorist) all spoke about their various roles on the movie. They also had people from Adobe and Quantel explaining the hardware and software used on the film. I watched about 20 minutes' worth of clips, and generally thought the color was very good throughout. Certain scenes were weird-looking, but the editor explained that this was a deliberate intent on the part of the director to clue everybody in that things were strange and not what they appeared to be (plot-wise). Later on in the film, when the plot unravels and we find out the truth about what's been going on, the look becomes almost completely normal -- no cyan faces, no weird issues -- deliberately to say, "now you're seeing reality." So the color scheme was done very specifically as a story point (they said). Wanted to ask about sound, but they cut the questions very short. Lots and lots of conversation about the viability of 6K for production, why it was necessary for this film, and how there were 2500 optical effects in the film, mostly "invisible" effects combining different takes in one shot, stabilizing a camera, reframing the image, and dozens of other very tweaky changes. There were some actual green-screen VFX, like placing a deer in the middle of the road in one shot, all comped pretty seamlessly. Even some shots where one character might have been sped up a little bit because their timing was off and they needed to eliminate a 1/2-second pause. Very, very, very tweaky. I'm much, much more impressed with the film now that I've seen some of it, and I was surprised and impressed that it looked so good. Absolutely sharp as a pin and grain-free in 4K, quite an interesting look. From a technical point of view, it's very impressive when you know the extent of post on the film. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrider Posted October 16, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 16, 2014 Thanks, Marc. This gave me some insight into the film. I did enjoy it myself and I encourage everyone to see it. It isn't a typical thriller, and it is one of the most interesting movies I have seen in awhile. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Beatty Posted October 16, 2014 Report Share Posted October 16, 2014 Regarding ADR, overlaps are another reason, for lots of ADR. actors talking over each other ruining intelligibility Or the scripted lines not matching the next edit. FILMS that use lots of ad lib such as Wolf of Wall Street, usually require a fair bit of ADR, even if the location sound is A1. Director needs to address that during the shoot imo I attended the panel as well, and the post team said a lot of the pacing was worked out in the edit when Fincher would often layer two takes so he could have absolute control over the dialogue flow. There was one particular shot where editorial showed 5 frames layered on top of each other for the sake of pacing on a medium wide of a dinner conversation. It's very possible that the most efficient way around compositing these shots involved ADR because of overlaps between the chosen takes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrider Posted October 16, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 16, 2014 The edit for this film must have been exhausting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted October 16, 2014 Report Share Posted October 16, 2014 marc: " there were 2500 optical effects " optical ? or visual ?? I always think optical effects are the ones done optically in the camera, old school... I believe Adobe is particularly touting this film for its use of their products... but including Audition ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZigFilm Posted October 17, 2014 Report Share Posted October 17, 2014 I loved the sound design and music in this film - I think it was the best part of the experience. Overall, the film felt long and a little predictable but definitely watchable and Ben Afflect wasn't too annoying. There was definitely a decent amount of ADR but Ren and co. did a good job of mixing it in. He mentioned the scene between Ben and his sister in the bar in particular. It didn't particularly jump out at me when watching it but I do a pretty good job of tuning off my professional side when I watch a movie. And yes, if you work in edit or sound long enough you can easily tell when things are 2 frames out of sync. I've worked with numerous people (including directors) who will ask us to adjust sync a frame or two because it looks off and they are usually right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Wielage Posted October 17, 2014 Report Share Posted October 17, 2014 marc: " there were 2500 optical effects " optical ? or visual ?? I always think optical effects are the ones done optically in the camera, old school... I think of special effects as physical effects happening on the set: exploding cars, sparks, smoke, etc. Visual effects are optical effects, and I'm old-school enough to have come from film and thinking of VFX as opticals, even though now they're all CGI. One of the first jobs I had in LA was working for Dan Genis' company Modern Film Effects on Melrose, when they started their video division, Modern Videofilm... which eventually became one of the biggest companies in town. But I learned a lot about optical effects from those guys. If you shoot through a live effects setup like a hanging miniature or a glass plate, that's in another category. I think it's safe to say very few people do in-camera effects anymore -- green screen is a lot more reliable and less expensive. The edit for this film must have been exhausting. I agree! Oscar-winning editor Kirk Baxter is superhuman for doing what he did in this film -- quite an incredible job. This is one of the most complex films I've ever seen, and I've seen some really whacked-out films before. The only movie I can think of that comes close was JFK, the movie that had B&W videotape, color videotape, 16mm, 35mm flat, 35mm scope, B&W, color, real footage, faked footage, and dramatic footage all in the same sequence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GuidoL Posted October 17, 2014 Report Share Posted October 17, 2014 I've just seen the movie and really enjoyed it. I really haven't noticed that many ADR problems, I've only heard a line slightly out of sync. As it was pointed any movie of this characteristics has ADR, some more than others and some more noticeable than others, ADR is something normal in the business but actually did anybody notice the amount of hiss on the dialogue or the background noise? was it recorded too low and then levelled up to meet delivery? I noticed it almost all the time over the dialogues. What do you think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Visser Posted October 17, 2014 Report Share Posted October 17, 2014 probably the residual effect of NR from the RED Dragon camera(s) used. I've just seen the movie and really enjoyed it. I really haven't noticed that many ADR problems, I've only heard a line slightly out of sync. As it was pointed any movie of this characteristics has ADR, some more than others and some more noticeable than others, ADR is something normal in the business but actually did anybody notice the amount of hiss on the dialogue or the background noise? was it recorded too low and then levelled up to meet delivery? I noticed it almost all the time over the dialogues. What do you think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZigFilm Posted October 18, 2014 Report Share Posted October 18, 2014 probably the residual effect of NR from the RED Dragon camera(s) used. Wonder if it's related to all the noise the fans make to keep that beast of a camera cool! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Wielage Posted October 19, 2014 Report Share Posted October 19, 2014 Wonder if it's related to all the noise the fans make to keep that beast of a camera cool! As much as I've complained about Red noise in the past, it's gotten a lot better in the last year. The last Red project I worked on, I didn't even notice the fan noise -- but the camera was never closer than maybe 9-10 feet away from the actors and we were on a quiet stage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Todd Weaver Posted October 22, 2014 Report Share Posted October 22, 2014 Regarding ADR, overlaps are another reason, for lots of ADR. actors talking over each other ruining intelligibility Or the scripted lines not matching the next edit. FILMS that use lots of ad lib such as Wolf of Wall Street, usually require a fair bit of ADR, even if the location sound is A1. Director needs to address that during the shoot imo I brought up an overlap issue today with the director. The director responded that the actor insisted on the overlaps and that the actor could just F'ing loop it. The director was intelligent and fully aware before I poured fuel on the fire and had had enough. All you can do is point it out, make a note and move on in that case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Wielage Posted October 22, 2014 Report Share Posted October 22, 2014 I brought up an overlap issue today with the director. The director responded that the actor insisted on the overlaps and that the actor could just F'ing loop it. The director was intelligent and fully aware before I poured fuel on the fire and had had enough. All you can do is point it out, make a note and move on in that case. What's great is when you have a neophyte who doesn't grasp why overlaps are such a huge issue for post. I've fought before for singles with no overlaps, and sometimes the directors would call weeks later and thank me for it. "Oh, now I see what you were talking about. Good call." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrider Posted October 22, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 22, 2014 When explaining the request to a director for no overlaps, I put on my best diplomatic hat and say "If we do one with no overlaps, you will be able to cut it a thousand different ways in post". That is like dangling candy in front of a kid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted October 22, 2014 Report Share Posted October 22, 2014 marc: " a neophyte who doesn't grasp why overlaps are such a huge issue for post. " maybe these folks shouldn't be directing..? nah..... Steve: " That is like dangling candy in front of a kid. " not for many of them, and especially the ones Marc is referring to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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