How many boom pole sections is too many?

[rmac]

I plan to purchase a boom pole in the 1.8m-2.7m range (6’-9’) that collapses to under 76cm (30”). I’ve looked at the carbon fibre offerings by Ambient, K-Tek, VdB and Panamic. Panamic offers 3 and 4 section poles in this range. Ambient offers only 5 sections, and K-Tek and VdB only offer 6. I realise that more sections translates into shorter collapsed length, but surely there’s a cost in structural stability. I’m pretty skeptical about a 6-foot, 6-section pole. Am I wrong to be?

[The Immoral Mr Teas]

I would say that for a 'medium short' pole, which 2.7 meters is, 5 or 6 sections will be fine. Not using the whole length of each section will increase stability a little more if you're only going 2m. Where fewer section poles excel is, in my opinion, on long poles. A greater criterion, for me, is balance - so try to try your shortlist out in the shop with a suitable (most likely) mic/zepp weight on the end before going for it - and how you intend to cable it. I have an Ambient, a K-Tec and a VdB but my favourite short pole is my old Canford. Where K-Tec has the edge is for me the 'Hodge' weight, but I have improvised such counterweights on my others. But again, this is most advantageous for a long pole.

 

Jez

[rmac]

3 hours ago, The Immoral Mr Teas said:

Where K-Tec has the edge is for me the 'Hodge' weight, but I have improvised such counterweights on my others. But again, this is most advantageous for a long pole.

...

A greater criterion, for me, is balance - so try to try your shortlist out in the shop with a suitable (most likely) mic/zepp weight on the end before going for it - and how you intend to cable it.

 

Provided that one uses some common sense about the amount of weight, one can probably add some counterweight to a VdB or Panamic pole in this length range pretty easily. VdB offers an optional, inexpensive end cap (part 6-101) that has a female British Standard Whitworth 3/8“-16 thread. The Panamics have a B.S.W. thread just before the end cap, which for poles in this range (53-5801 & 53-5802/5803) screw on and off. 

 

In the U.S., Gotham Sound and Trew Audio are the only VdB and Panamic distributors, and they don’t have all models in stock. As you know, cabling for Panamics is external.

[Jim Feeley]

I've had a K-Tek "Traveler" pole for 15+ years. Six sections, collapses to under 60cm. It's not my main pole, but it's been fine with whatever I throw on the end (typically a CS3e or smaller). So I suggest at that short length 5 vs. 6 sections isn't a big deal.  

[inspire]

Which shotgun would you like to use with it? Heavy or light?

[The Documentary Sound Guy]

Same as Jim, I have a 6-section traveller K-Tek pole that is plenty rigid at small lengths.  My objection to more sections is how long it takes to extend things, but it's a great carry-on travel pole.

[rmac]

Here’s a spreadsheet on the boom poles that met my criteria.

 

 

Notes:

 

1. Prices are U.S. dollars before sales tax. I checked B&H, Gotham and Trew. There’s some variation between those resellers. B&H only sells Ambient and K-Tek. Only Gotham has a website price for VdB’s Small QT, and cabled only for bottom exit.

2. Some poles have built-in tip quick release. Removing the tip may lower collapsed length a bit.
3. I believe that the only difference between Panamic 5802 and 5803 is that the 5802 tip is fixed and the 5803 tip is removable.

[rmac]

2 hours ago, inspire said:

Which shotgun would you like to use with it? Heavy or light?

 

I’ll primarily use this pole with Schoeps mics and Cinela suspensions and wind protection. I have a Rycote modular windshield, but I’m probably going to replace it with a Cinela Pianissimo.

[osa]

1 hour ago, awadden said:

Here’s a spreadsheet on the boom poles that met my criteria.

 

 

Notes:

 

1. Prices are U.S. dollars before sales tax. I checked B&H, Gotham and Trew. There’s some variation between those resellers. B&H only sells Ambient and K-Tek. Only Gotham has a website price for VdB’s Small QT, and cabled only for bottom exit.

2. In some cases, packed length can be a bit shorter than collapsed length because the tip is removable. This also means that some poles effectively have built-in quick release.
3. I believe that the only difference between Panamic 5802 and 5803 is that the 5802 tip is fixed and the 5803 tip is removable.

This is great info as i myself have been struggling with air travel and a boom pole that works for me. I have a shorty ktek aluminum traveler that i dread using but it fits my carry on

[inspire]

Do You need Internal XLR Cable? 

Panamic boom poles are elegantly hand-crafted in the UK from the highest quality carbon fibre - that would make sense for me. If their price OK for you ( I can say, they are expensive IMHO) , I would choose PANAMIC.

I myself have modified Millenium Boompole L. The most important things for me are 1) length 2) light as possible 3) soundless as possible (important!) 4) stable as possible, but I have very light shotgun (Schoeps MiniCMIT GR).

[rmac]

Short list.

 

 

If additional tips are wanted to outfit additional microphones in advance of a session, the price per tip is $70.

 

The U.S. vendors are Gotham Sound and Trew Audio. One can purchase direct from Canford in the U.K., but the cost with shipping is somewhat higher.

[inspire]

I think you don’t need removable tip, fixed tip is better (more secure, maybe more quiet, as it is fixed). I believe it is also glued, but not sure, how they fixed it exactly.

[DanieldH]

21 hours ago, awadden said:

there’s a cost in structural stability

Is that actually an issue in the 1.8m-2.7m range with e.g. a Piani as mentioned? I hardly have the need of such a pole outdoors.
I see the disadvantage over more sections in pre operation handling and in overall weight (and rather slight, when fully expanded) balance advantage vs transport and occasional horizontal storage on a sound bag.
 

[rmac]

Hi Daniel,

 

I’ve decided that the 3 and 4 section Panamics on my short list 3 posts up, which share a collapsed length of 73cm/27.8”, will work fine for airline travel. That means that I don’t need to consider the 5 and 6 section poles. I think that I may be able to include a Panamic as part of carry-on baggage (I have fly rod tubes 😇), and one will fit in the checked roller bag I use. Also, judging from the Panamic maintenance guide and videos that show the internal construction, breaking down one of these poles is simple, and there’s no internal cable to complicate doing it. That may prove to be a good way to travel with one.

 

I plan to decide in the next couple of days which of the three Panamics to order.

[inspire]

It seems to me OK boompoles, go for it! :

https://www.panamic.net/resources/customer-testimonials/

[Alien]

For travel where size is of importance I use a 16' cabled Loon Pole and it will handle a blimped MKH70 no problems, for the shorter pole I have a PSC 12' cabled that also travels but is mainly a backup. The extra sections make sure that they fir in my case and the problems don't seem to effect performance when fully extended.  Both poles have done the past 20 seasons with NFL Films no problems. 

When travel is less of a problem and I'm running wireless booms I use my selection of Panamics as the main choice. I've always been happy with them and when they were built in Watford even visited the "Factory" (Garage) and chatted with the guys there. My original 12' aluminium pole was designed for use with a blimped 416 with minimal bend. It would also stand an 816. Even the 20' Graphite pole I got later in my career has worked well with anything I've put on the end. These poles work well with less sections

[rmac]

8 hours ago, inspire said:

It seems to me OK boompoles, go for it! :

https://www.panamic.net/resources/customer-testimonials/

 

 

Last August, Allen Williams posted an overview of Panamic’s longest boom pole (5m). At 10 minutes, Williams talks briefly about the Panamic page you linked, and its article about UK production sound mixer Mark Roberts.

 

Roberts has used the 1.83m/6’ boom pole on my short list extensively while traveling all over the world for work. His website (http://www.markroberts.hk/) has a gallery with a large number of photographs showing the pole in use. As the Panamic article and Williams say, Roberts sometimes uses a stake to mount the pole vertically in the ground. He can do this because he made a stake that he can screw into a British Standard Whitworth 3/8-16 thread that’s at the bottom of the pole. The Whitworth thread is shown in Williams’s video at 2:06.

 

For me, that thread is one of the attractions of the poles on my short list. With a spacer, the pole could also be mounted on a ground tripod. The VdB poles on the long list that I posted earlier (post #7) can also be mounted on a ground tripod because there’s an optional end cap available that has a female 3/8”-16 thread.

 

This is Allen Williams’s video:

 

 

 

[rmac]

On 3/19/2024 at 3:52 PM, inspire said:

I think you don’t need removable tip, fixed tip is better (more secure, maybe more quiet, as it is fixed). I believe it is also glued, but not sure, how they fixed it exactly.

 

Laura Pavey, Senior Production Engineer at Canford, responded as follows to my question about fixed and detachable tips. Ms. Pavey’s background with the company is on this page: https://www.panamic.net/about-panamic/:

 

Quote

I’ve never heard of any complaints about the DT being any less solid than the FT, making noise or loosening during use.

 

A fixed tip (FT) is a one piece machined ferrule with a stud which is glued into the tip section, hence not removable.

A  detachable tip (DT) is removable from a ferrule that’s adhered into the tip section.

I’ve attached a side by side photo of both options.

 

Ms. Pavey also told me that when the pole is collapsed for transport, detaching a detachable tip will only lower the pole by a further 16mm 😞

 

[rmac]

If one wants quick release boom pole tips, Panamic’s are simple to use. See Allen William’s video (2 posts up) at 3:58.

 

The chart below shows how the quick release option affects the cost of the poles on my short list.

 

The 6’, 3-section is only offered with a detachable tip. The 7’+, 4-section is offered with a fixed or detachable tip. Extra tips are $71 each:

 

 

[rmac]

Matt Price saying that airport security, British Airways, Virgin Atlantic and EasyJet have been fine with him carrying a 73cm/28.7” Panamic Mini boom pole on-board. That’s what the poles on my short list are:

 

 

Not that it matters, but I think that the thumbnail text is an error and that Price’s Panamic is actually the 6’, 3-section pole.

[The Documentary Sound Guy]

I used to do that.  The airlines were fine with it until they weren't.  Now I play safe, because it's too much stress finding out at the airport that they want me to check a bare boom pole.

[inspire]

This seems to be a quite decent construction, respect to them! But what's the purpose of this round button, I don't quite understand when there's already such a decent construction as it is.
Anyway, the rivet on my much cheaper boompole snapped (which is naturally dangerous!). We modified it to be very fixed (plus glued it so it's immobile) and I ended up very satisfied with it.

[rmac]

1 hour ago, inspire said:

...what's the purpose of this round button, I don't quite understand when there's already such a decent construction as it is.

 

Some Panamic boom poles, including two of the three on my short list, have a detachable tip. The “round button”, also known as a thumb screw, is part of what makes the tip detachable. As I said four posts up, Allen Williams’s video shows how this works at 3:58.

 

What’s the benefit? One can have tips on two different mikes, for example, and change out the mikes in seconds.

[rmac]

12 hours ago, The Documentary Sound Guy said:

I used to do that.  The airlines were fine with it until they weren't.  Now I play safe, because it's too much stress finding out at the airport that they want me to check a bare boom pole.

 

Yes, note that Matt Price was clearing this with airline desks during baggage drop-off and before going through security. Airline practice may be unpredictable, and indeed may have changed since his video was made. Personally, I’m content with putting a pole in my checked roller bag, and I know that the Panamic Mini poles will fit in it.

[inspire]

Thanks for the 3:58, there is a slot for the round button to fix it securely, clear!