Getting Started and upgrading kit? Avantone ck1 and marantz 661

[swaneon]

Currently my kit consists of an ntg3 as my shotgun, avantone ck1 as my hyper-- zoom h4n + marantz 661 as my recorders

i'm going to get some lavs but for the units i have I'm thinking about getting the sound devices mix pre d and have been told to get a field mixer--which I'm willing to spend up to 1.5k for

are there any other suggestions?

 

I do currently do corporate + wedding videos

I'm thinking about replacing the avantone ck1 with a schoeps mk41 soon

 

I recorded this with the avantone ck1 with marantz 661 and i can'r seem to increase the gain without increasing noise--the mic is around 8 inches away from the speaker

 

here is a sample directly off the card https://www.dropbox.com/s/6clepmkf4xjlofg/1001.WAV

the voice sounds really low-- any quick glance where it might be off?

[OmahaAudio]

For $1500 you could pick up either a nice s/h Sound Devices 302 mixer (three inputs, $900-1000ish) or a s/h Sound Devices 442 mixer (four inputs, $1400ish). The pre-amps in either one would beat the socks off of the ones in either of your recorders and give you a lot more control and flexibility.

[swaneon]

For $1500 you could pick up either a nice s/h Sound Devices 302 mixer (three inputs, $900-1000ish) or a s/h Sound Devices 442 mixer (four inputs, $1400ish). The pre-amps in either one would beat the socks off of the ones in either of your recorders and give you a lot more control and flexibility.

what would be the benefit of going with these over mix pre d? or I've heard that getting a mixer would be better since I can later add in g3 wireless mics ?

 

thank you

[berniebeaudry]

 

Currently my kit consists of an ntg3 as my shotgun, avantone ck1 as my hyper-- zoom h4n + marantz 661 as my recorders

i'm going to get some lavs but for the units i have I'm thinking about getting the sound devices mix pre d and have been told to get a field mixer--which I'm willing to spend up to 1.5k for

are there any other suggestions?

 

I do currently do corporate + wedding videos

I'm thinking about replacing the avantone ck1 with a schoeps mk41 soon

 

I recorded this with the avantone ck1 with marantz 661 and i can'r seem to increase the gain without increasing noise--the mic is around 8 inches away from the speaker

 

here is a sample directly off the card https://www.dropbox.com/s/6clepmkf4xjlofg/1001.WAV

the voice sounds really low-- any quick glance where it might be off?

 

Just took a listen and on my laptop I can barely hear it. Here's some things to check.

Is the input switched to line instead of mic?

Is phantom power turned on?

Is there a pad engaged?

Is the mic/cable working properly?

I used to own a 661 and the mic pres are decent. You should be peaking your levels between -9 and -6. The headphone amp is really weak so keep that in mind if you're monitoring from there. Have you had good results with these same components before? At that distance you should have no problem getting good level.

[swaneon]

Just took a listen and on my laptop I can barely hear it. Here's some things to check.

Is the input switched to line instead of mic?

Is phantom power turned on?

Is there a pad engaged?

Is the mic/cable working properly?

I used to own a 661 and the mic pres are decent. You should be peaking your levels between -9 and -6. The headphone amp is really weak so keep that in mind if you're monitoring from there. Have you had good results with these same components before? At that distance you should have no problem getting good level.

yep

the phantom power and line in are the same position of the switch though but i can have it peak at -9 to -6 but then i hear noise through my headphones or is that something I should clean up in post?

[berniebeaudry]

what would be the benefit of going with these over mix pre d? or I've heard that getting a mixer would be better since I can later add in g3 wireless mics ?

 

thank you

The mix pre d is in essence a two channel mixer. The 302 is a three channel mixer, and the 442 is a four channel mixer. What you gain with either the 302 or 442 is the added channels and flexibility. The 442 bought used is a great value and will give you room to grow. It can feed up to three cameras and give you direct outputs to send to a recorder for isolated recording of each input. Something useful if you get a multi-track recorder someday.

[swaneon]

For $1500 you could pick up either a nice s/h Sound Devices 302 mixer (three inputs, $900-1000ish) or a s/h Sound Devices 442 mixer (four inputs, $1400ish). The pre-amps in either one would beat the socks off of the ones in either of your recorders and give you a lot more control and flexibility.

or would a 722 be a better idea and get rid of the marantz?

the zoom h4n is beat up so I like it as a spare since its built ruggedly

[swaneon]

The mix pre d is in essence a two channel mixer. The 302 is a three channel mixer, and the 442 is a four channel mixer. What you gain with either the 302 or 442 is the added channels and flexibility. The 442 bought used is a great value and will give you room to grow. It can feed up to three cameras and give you direct outputs to send to a recorder for isolated recording of each input. Something useful if you get a multi-track recorder someday.

Oh I see--much thanks!, I'll try and look for either one ---i still need a recorder though?

[berniebeaudry]

yep

the phantom power and line in are the same position of the switch though but i can have it peak at -9 to -6 but then i hear noise through my headphones or is that something I should clean up in post?

To clarify: The input was switched to mic not line, phantom power was on. Again, is this the first time using this setup, or has it worked well in the past? The headphone amp is crap on the 661, so is the noise you hear just headphone noise or is it really there? The sample you posted is so low I doubt it would be useable. Were was your level peaking at on the meters?

[swaneon]

To clarify: The input was switched to mic not line, phantom power was on. Again, is this the first time using this setup, or has it worked well in the past? The headphone amp is crap on the 661, so is the noise you hear just headphone noise or is it really there? The sample you posted is so low I doubt it would be useable. Were was your level peaking at on the meters?

this is the first time with the avantone--the ntg3 works well with the same settings though

 

the level was around -20

 

I'll add a clip around -9 and -6 and it cleaned up

[berniebeaudry]

Oh I see--much thanks!, I'll try and look for either one ---i still need a recorder though?

Yes you would need a recorder. These are mixers only. When I had the 661 I fed it line level with a 442 and it sounded really good. The size and design of the 661 is kind of clunky though.

[berniebeaudry]

this is the first time with the avantone--the ntg3 works well with the same settings though

 

the level was around -20

 

I'll add a clip around -9 and -6 and it cleaned up

Way too low.

[swaneon]

here's

 

Yes you would need a recorder. These are mixers only. When I had the 661 I fed it line level with a 442 and it sounded really good. The size and design of the 661 is kind of clunky though.

ah yes I'll get a used 442 then--

here is the audio recently recorded--this is off DC though

 

without NR

https://www.dropbox.com/s/bch5xzwso8oquj6/1017_straightoffsd.WAV

 

with so NR

https://www.dropbox.com/s/tmy0iy0jg3yjs0y/audition_1017.WAV

[soundtrane]

would do you a world of good if you can meet and get help from one of the good experts out there in seattle - doug tourtelot / charlie tomaras. 

[swaneon]

would do you a world of good if you can meet and get help from one of the good experts out there in seattle - doug tourtelot / charlie tomaras.

I'll definitely do that!

Do you have their contact info or where I may obtain that?

[Rick Reineke]

The OP's file looks and sounds as if it was just recorded at a very low level. When normalized, the content is there (along with the noise). With some NR and  EQ, it may even be usable.. depending on the client's or OP's expectations and/or needs. If Phantom Power was not engaged or the switched to line level, there would be nothing.

[OmahaAudio]

what would be the benefit of going with these over mix pre d? or I've heard that getting a mixer would be better since I can later add in g3 wireless mics ?

 

thank you

With a MixPreD you'd have two XLR inputs and two outputs. With an SD302 you'd have 3 inputs/2outputs and with the SD442 you'd have four inputs/two outputs. With three inputs you could have, for example, your NTG-3 going into channel one and two wireless mics going into channel two or your recorder (or a video camera).

[Christian Spaeth]

Doesn't the 442 have four pfl outs?

[OmahaAudio]

Doesn't the 442 have four pfl outs?

"Signal is pre-fader (post-trim, input limiter, and high-pass filter)"

- Sound Devices

[swaneon]

thank you!

I'll get a 302 and a schoeps mk41 then

 

here is the avantone with some NR and higher peak

https://vimeo.com/58286059

[Christian Spaeth]

"Signal is pre-fader (post-trim, input limiter, and high-pass filter)"

- Sound Devices

The 442 does have 4 direct outs, plus stereo out.

[berniebeaudry]

thank you!

I'll get a 302 and a schoeps mk41 then

 

here is the avantone with some NR and higher peak

https://vimeo.com/58286059

Sounds pretty good on my laptop. The first clip you posted was barely audible on the same computer.

[swaneon]

much thanks!

the 302 came 

 

 

 I was wondering on how I may go about connecting it to my Marantz 661?

I've heard of the AES->SPDIF cable and inquired about that but in the meantime I tried connecting 

 

the mic to 302 via xlr and 302 to marantz via xlr but I get a high pitch sound.

the attenuation setting on the marantz is -18

 

thank you for the help!

[berniebeaudry]

much thanks!

the 302 came 

 

 

 I was wondering on how I may go about connecting it to my Marantz 661?

I've heard of the AES->SPDIF cable and inquired about that but in the meantime I tried connecting 

 

the mic to 302 via xlr and 302 to marantz via xlr but I get a high pitch sound.

the attenuation setting on the marantz is -18

 

thank you for the help!

Is tone turned on at the mixer and did you use it to align the level on the 661 with the output level of the 302? Is the high pitched sound perhaps tone? Did you switch the xlr inputs on the 661 to line?

[swaneon]

tell me how you're connecting the 302 to the 661. Are you running line out xlr to line in xlr? Did you output tone from the 302 and use it to set the level on the 661 at -20? Is the tone turned on on the 302? Could that be the high pitched sound? The AES cable won't do you any good as the 302 doesn't have a digital out.

I appreciate your help very much, thank you!

Here are pics.

Microphone to SD 302 via XLR

 

SD to XLR out to PMD661

 

Input to PMD661

 

I'm reading the manual and I think it has to do with the SD output being mic? I tried to change it in setup but now I can't enter it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CIiAHHJ5sIg