Armin Siegwarth Posted December 15, 2013 Report Share Posted December 15, 2013 I will be doing a 4 man band inteview sitting around a table. The idea is to bring 4 mics on the table as wireless handsets to avoid the ugly cables. There has been a tv show with Sennheiser MD 441 in pic and that was found to be nice. But they made holes in the table for the cable which we can't. So the question is which good looking handset mics (silver prefered) has the best reach if the guys lean back. Was thinking about Sennheiser SKM 5000 but which capsule to choose? 5005 hypercardiod 1,6mv/pa or 5004 cardiod 11mv/pa. Or neumann 104? And I have problems to find them in silver for rental (and that in germany...grrr). The cheaper EW 300 and 500 Series are much more common in rentals but all black. Or am I better of with Shure which I haven't worked with yet. SM 87 / KSM9? Any other ideas? A schoeps capsule would have to have a foam onto it I guess. Armin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted December 15, 2013 Report Share Posted December 15, 2013 Armin: " Any other ideas? " there are hundreds of mic's to choose from, aren't there, if you stick a butt-plug on the back. An old favorite is the EV-666, ...and RE-15, too. In Eurpoe MD-421... I still sometimes bring out Shure SM-59's... new mic's ? take your pick, of course... of course the Shure wireless (choice of heads) and Sennheisers are popular "rock" vocal mics, and the Shure SM-58 (or even 57) are the world's number one! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armin Siegwarth Posted December 15, 2013 Author Report Share Posted December 15, 2013 butt-plug - haven't thought of it. dooooh thanx for that. lets see what the director thinks of it. ev-666 is not really availible in germany but looks so nice :-) I could use the butt-plug with the 441 but I am not sure if that dynamic mic would not fall off too quickly when they lean back. Should give that a little test at an rental. I see Shure and Sennheiser the most at the rentals - but which one is best for the distance a table mic has to a person leaned back? Our usual suspects only have sennheiser - the shures are more at the band rentals. Haven't found one in my area with silver handsets yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Constantin Posted December 15, 2013 Report Share Posted December 15, 2013 I rented the silver skm5000 last year, somewhere in Berlin. They mailed it, so location was not an issue. I was specifically looking for a silver one, too, and I found one after a couple of hours with Google. Sorry, I don't remember the name of the place, but it was clearly not one of our usual suspects. You can also ask Sennheiser directly for a loaner. Don't know about reach, though. I mean these mics were built to be used close to the mouth... What about Neumann KM184 or such like? They are available in a silver-ish Nickel finish Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Reineke Posted December 15, 2013 Report Share Posted December 15, 2013 I like Countryman E6 headsets, wired or with your favorite wireless systems. The E6 in very discrete and probably would be visible only on close-ups. While the 441 is a great mic, it's output level in kind of low for spoken word type programs, so a lot of clean gain would likely be needed. Live performance type mics ( 57, 58, ect.) should ideally be within 6" of the speaker's pie hole. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted December 15, 2013 Report Share Posted December 15, 2013 Rick R: " Live performance type mics ( 57, 58, ect.) should ideally be within 6" of the speaker's pie hole. " Not really... with no PA (feedback) I've successfully used these and others quite successfully at greater distances.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrd456 Posted December 15, 2013 Report Share Posted December 15, 2013 I would not use shure sm57 or 58. they were made as a noise rejecting mic. [P.A. speakers-reject feed back].They have a less sensitive diaphragm to make them less sensitive to feedback.I just compared a cardiode schoeps [not hyper] ,an sm57 and a beyer m201 tg from a distance of 3.5 feet. The beyer [dynamic] compared very close to the schoeps and the shure, not so good.remember the sm57 can be used to hammer nails. J.D. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solid Goldberger Posted December 16, 2013 Report Share Posted December 16, 2013 Sorry if I am missing something, but why not wire everyone? I find it hard to believe you're gonna get "broadcast quality" audio from fidgety musicians around a table talking into stationary mics. If you need the mics there for a certain look that's one thing, but I would certainly opt for a lav on each person, if only for peace of mind in case the planted microphones don't work as planned. e. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_bollard Posted December 16, 2013 Report Share Posted December 16, 2013 Yeah. Wire each person and have the hand mics on camera as props Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted December 16, 2013 Report Share Posted December 16, 2013 (edited) Fisher boom... jrd456: " I would not use shure sm57 or 58. " up to you, of course, but perhaps being a bit of an audio-snob ?? I well remember (waaaay back then) using an early version of the Shure 57 frequently as a radio interview mic, many times in settings as you describe... Billie J. Kramer and the Dakota's come to mind... BTW, the recorder was a heavy, suitcase sized Ampex Edited December 16, 2013 by studiomprd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armin Siegwarth Posted December 16, 2013 Author Report Share Posted December 16, 2013 I did use an condenser Sennheiser EW 165 G1 handset years ago (capsule no longer made hypercardiod 3mV/pa) at an distance of about 1m and was quite surprised how well it came out. But that was outside with construction in the back, so not very quiet. I have DPA Lavs with me for sure - just they must be hidden. Camera + Director do not want them to be seen. So headset mics won't be liked also. Plus I will have no influence on the clothing nor do I know if I get the time to wire them up properly. In fact I want the prop mics as backup or use them as main if they are better - to have the choice. The sonically probably better solution to use a small condensor needs a buttplug as the wires would be ugly on the table. If the optics of an MK41 / Neumann 184 with buttplug will find friends is to find out. I think I would use foams on them as well as they have no internal pop screen as the handsets usually do. @ Constantin Asking Sennheiser directly is a good idea. I found out that the European Song Contest had them directly from them. Toneheads cologne who did the rest soundwise were provided by Sennheiser. Maybe they know at least a rental that has the silver ones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted December 16, 2013 Report Share Posted December 16, 2013 Armin: " I think I would use foams on them as well as they have no internal pop screen " expecting plosives at 1m ?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armin Siegwarth Posted December 16, 2013 Author Report Share Posted December 16, 2013 well I expect 1m for leaned back and 30-40 cm when sitting like hoped with arms on table. And at 1 foot from below...? the TV show I mentioned above with the Sennheiser MD 441 worked as long nobody leaned back. They worked without foams but I guess the 441 is less sensitive to plosives than MK41. I know one guy of the band. Very friendly and positive but quite active with his body language and "creative" in ways he sits. Sony Music is the client and the band is very successful since years in germany so I won't be too demanding to them. If it weren't a 3cam shoot this time with a very wide I would hang 4 hypers... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Reineke Posted December 17, 2013 Report Share Posted December 17, 2013 Rick R: " Live performance type mics ( 57, 58, ect.) should ideally be within 6" of the speaker's pie hole. " Not really... with no PA (feedback) I've successfully used these and others quite successfully at greater distances.. With all due respect Senator.. same here.. ideally.. is the key word. I used an 57/ A55M shock mount /A2WS windscreen for years for government/corporate/broadcast gigs. Inexperienced speakers 'drifting' off a podium or table mic (or afraid of) is always a problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armin Siegwarth Posted January 9, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 9, 2014 Finally We went cabled miced for sensity and cost reasons. Oktava 012 hyper / rode foam / Sennheiser Foot for the retro Look. But I can't recommend that because there was too much Handling Noise over the table. Additional foam bits under the Foot Wasn't enough to disconnect from the table. So the hidden lavs will be used. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armin Siegwarth Posted January 9, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 9, 2014 Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomBoisseau Posted January 9, 2014 Report Share Posted January 9, 2014 Yes. Those Oktava 012's have terrible handling noise. If you use their in-line hi pass filter, they're okay, but sadly it does decrease the signal to noise ratio. That being said it is a "great mic for the money", and might just do the trick. Did you ever test them with the hi pass filter? Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Reineke Posted January 10, 2014 Report Share Posted January 10, 2014 The Shure A53M shock mounts are relatively low profile and fit the 012 perfectly. They're the 5/8"-27 thread and $35.50 @ Markertek. http://www.markertek.com/Audio-Equipment/Microphone-Accessories/Microphone-Holders-Mounts/Shure-Inc/A53M.xhtml The WindTech SP-20 shock mounts are cheaper ($10.50) but I don't think they isolate as good as the Shure. I have the A53Ms for my 012 stereo pair. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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