aristotle_kumpis Posted April 22, 2010 Report Share Posted April 22, 2010 I'm just starting my career as a sound mixer, coming from a backround of post production. Many people are telling me that sound mixers are not getting paid as much as they did years ago. I realize that some people are desperate for money and are charging way under what they should be, which in turn is hurting the industry. I guess it depends on if you mix for television or film, but I want to make sure that the future for sound mixers is still a promising way to earn a living. Any thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip Perkins Posted April 22, 2010 Report Share Posted April 22, 2010 I'm just starting my career as a sound mixer, coming from a backround of post production. Many people are telling me that sound mixers are not getting paid as much as they did years ago. I realize that some people are desperate for money and are charging way under what they should be, which in turn is hurting the industry. I guess it depends on if you mix for television or film, but I want to make sure that the future for sound mixers is still a promising way to earn a living. Any thoughts? Two thoughts: first is the obvious--yes with the economy the way it is and the general devaluation of the product we produce, AND the changes in technology, there is a lot of downward pressure on rates, probably the most intense I've seen in well over 30 years doing this work. That said, the world is an increasingly noisy, RF-ridden, uncooperative place, and many producers have turned to doco style/run and gun/get it on the first take production methods and concepts as a way to save time and money, and all of this calls for talented and experienced location sound people. I think given the huge amount of diverse technology being brought to bear on film/video production these days, our expertise will continue to be needed, if possibly not as well compensated for as we'd like. Philip Perkins Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old school Posted April 22, 2010 Report Share Posted April 22, 2010 Well it won't be so bright that we'll need shades. Philip said it well. Someone will always be needed to do it, thats the good news. Getting the experience will be the hard part. Always has been the Catch 22 I suppose. CrewC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bperlman Posted April 23, 2010 Report Share Posted April 23, 2010 I agree with Phillip and Crew. And certainly things are extra tough in this economy, helping the downward push on rates. It will be interesting to see what the rebound is like as business recovers. I suspect it will continue to be a struggle to get what we feel is fair compensation for many of us. This has never been a career for the faint of heart. It requires knowing what you are worth, what you will accept, and being willing to say "no thanks" to ridiculous offers. Unless you take a staff job, you are a one person business. Approach it as such, with professionalism that includes understanding the pool you are swimming in. Sometimes you have to put yourself in the producer's shoes when considering an offer. And other times you have to just walk away and let them shoot themselves in the foot. Yes, the business is changing. For better or for worse, only time will tell. But a career as a sound mixer will always be what you make of it. If you run your business well, you will survive and prosper. If you allow others to define your success... You can guess the answer to that. Any way you look at it, it beats digging ditches. Best of luck, Bruce Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zack Posted April 23, 2010 Report Share Posted April 23, 2010 Since getting laid off of my full time work a few years ago, investing into the tools needed to be a good reliable sound mixer has been an ass saver for me. It's been the best job I've ever had (seriously) and in most of my situations so far the highest paying jobs when you consider the income per time worked ratio. I have had zero success trying to get back into the full time/part time minimum wage sector, and honestly I'de rather stick with what is starting to work with being my own boss (for the most part lol) and do what I love best... being a part of the big screen. In a nutshell, sound mixing has been a blessing so far taking me around the world and making some great friendships with other successful people. I'm in this for the long haul..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Wielage Posted April 23, 2010 Report Share Posted April 23, 2010 My take on the state of the industry right now is that things are in a huge state of flux. The post business is definitely terrible, but I hear that from a lot of different sectors -- from sound to video post to visual effects. I slip back and forth from doing occasional production sound work to video post work, but I like to hope there's always room for anybody who's good. I think rates at the low end are getting hammered, but it's mainly from non-pros and wanna-be's trying to produce no-budget films. It gets very discouraging, trying to educate people like this as to what it really costs to do sound well, even at the low end of the scale. So much is tied to luck, timing, and who you know. But I know an awful lot of editors and colorists out of work right now. At least if you have several skills, you increase your chances of finding something out there to get you by. --Marc W. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BobD Posted April 23, 2010 Report Share Posted April 23, 2010 My .02 cents.... Unless you have a great deal of gear, and many years under your belt.... things are as has been said... in flux.... thus, a hard time to make a serious living at it.... Especially in this now frugal market... Given what I know, I would not get in at this point... Sure I could give you some real positive news, but I would only be taking you for a ride... The reality is, unless you are already in deep with an established client base, and a name out there in the real world... best to think twice... Have some employment elsewhere... Sounds like you do... that's good... You will probably need it, unless your living with mom and dad... There will always be mixers, it's the Boom ops I am worried about... Those guys that you mentioned that are undercharging are also throwing the boom ops under the bus.... Going out without them, also hurting the industry... Don't get me started on that topic... Best of luck.... just don't be "one of those guys" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glen Trew Posted April 23, 2010 Report Share Posted April 23, 2010 My .02 cents.... Unless you have a great deal of gear, and many years under your belt.... things are as has been said... in flux.... thus, a hard time to make a serious living at it.... Especially in this now frugal market... Given what I know, I would not get in at this point... Sure I could give you some real positive news, but I would only be taking you for a ride... The reality is, unless you are already in deep with an established client base, and a name out there in the real world... best to think twice... Have some employment elsewhere... Sounds like you do... that's good... You will probably need it, unless your living with mom and dad... There will always be mixers, it's the Boom ops I am worried about... Those guys that you mentioned that are undercharging are also throwing the boom ops under the bus.... Going out without them, also hurting the industry... Don't get me started on that topic... Best of luck.... just don't be "one of those guys" True, things are down, but it might actually be a good time to get started... Maybe not so much as a free lancer for film/video production, but as an employee at a business such as a TV or radio station or corporate facility. That's what I did years ago when freelancing as a sound mixer outside of LA or New York was unheard of. Things will turn around, and when they do you'll have some experience behind you. Worked for me. Glen Trew Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aristotle_kumpis Posted April 23, 2010 Author Report Share Posted April 23, 2010 Thank you everyone for your feedback so far. It's amazing to see how active everyone is on this forum. I appreciate it. I already am self employed with a different industry, but only part time now. My weekends and free days are now occupied with part time gigs for sound mixing. I know what I am worth, and as I start gaining experience, I'll won't have to think twice about turning down lo pay/no pay gigs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip Perkins Posted April 23, 2010 Report Share Posted April 23, 2010 Thank you everyone for your feedback so far. It's amazing to see how active everyone is on this forum. I appreciate it. I already am self employed with a different industry, but only part time now. My weekends and free days are now occupied with part time gigs for sound mixing. I know what I am worth, and as I start gaining experience, I'll won't have to think twice about turning down lo pay/no pay gigs. You gotta at least TRY to do what you love...good luck to you. Philip Perkins Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoundChances Posted April 23, 2010 Report Share Posted April 23, 2010 Here is some input from someone else fairly new to this world... I come from a music production background(now that is where there is no future) and I've had more gigs and made more money in the last year doing production sound than the previous 2 years(if not 3) doing music. To me, the future does seem quite bright, but then I had been recording musicians who can't play, sing, write a decent song and expected everything to be auto-tuned, beat mapped and edited to death. Plus they don't seem to know how to write a check.... Granted I'm not exactly doing very exciting work yet, lots of corporate talking head stuff, but I'm getting paid to create good sounding recordings and getting fairly steady gigs, which makes me happy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old school Posted April 23, 2010 Report Share Posted April 23, 2010 If I listened to all the people who told me I couldn't get in to the film business way back in the day when it really was closed shop unions and all but impossible to get in, today I would be unhappy doing something else wishing I had followed my dreams. I agree w BobD, but I would try it if you are right for the biz n love it. CrewC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted April 23, 2010 Report Share Posted April 23, 2010 " I had been recording musicians who can't play, sing, write a decent song and expected everything to be auto-tuned, beat mapped and edited to death. Plus they don't seem to know how to write a check.... " and now you can work for movie producers who fit that description!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoundChances Posted April 23, 2010 Report Share Posted April 23, 2010 and now you can work for movie producers who fit that description!! True but any day on set is more exciting that seeing yet another Marshall stack cranked to 10 or a snare drum with more duct tape than my ducts roll through the door.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurence Posted April 23, 2010 Report Share Posted April 23, 2010 I think it's natural to look at the past and comment on how it was hard for us to get started in this business but how the rewards have made it worthwhile. But akumpis specifically asked about the "future" of the industry. That's not easy to predict. But there are clues. We've heard comments about the demise of the music recording industry... impacted hugely by easy distribution of content over the internet... and certainly, there are parallels in our industry, as well. It's anybody's guess where this is all headed but many people see more content selling for less money. Which does not bode well for wage rates. Yes, there will always be the big shows and the juicey commercials... but most likely, there will be fewer of them. Although there will continue to be a need for production jobs, the impact of "runaway production" becomes more significant as the traditional production centers see much less of that work as the jobs are being spread out. How many production jobs can any given city support when the work is spread across the entire globe? Advertisers are in a panic over the weaknesses in print and tv broadcast, and some might say that the hayday of commercial production, once a fantastic environment to work in, is long gone and never to return. With all that as the backdrop, unions are under continuous pressure to sacrifice conditions and benefits in order to keep the work. $2,000 cameras... editing on a laptop... it's gotta make your head spin. Some people will continue to do very well in this business but repeating the successes of the past in this changing economic and technological environment is more challenging than ever. Laurence Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ken Mantlo Posted April 23, 2010 Report Share Posted April 23, 2010 Guess which one is the sound guy and which is the producer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
engaudio Posted April 23, 2010 Report Share Posted April 23, 2010 It is better to have tried and failed, than not to have ever tried at all.... Good Luck, cheers RVD And there you have it, the only answer you ever need in life. Regards, Grant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zack Posted April 24, 2010 Report Share Posted April 24, 2010 I think it's unfortunate that people don't want to work within the sound "crew" and truly learn the craft, before stepping in and saying I'm a mixer. I also think that crossing over from the "reality" genre to the world of feature film will be a difficult move. Well, I (being one of these folks that would love to work with the experienced first and learn from the bottom up as traditional as possible), could never get taken seriously to get those opportunities. Being someone that is not a good friend of, relative of, or any other special acquaintance of an experienced sound mixer seems to have a very poor chance of gaining serious consideration to get a foot-in-the-door position. I have tried so hard many of times, but always seemed to come up empty, until...... I just decided to cut my own path and learn from my own experiences the hard way. To this day, I would love the opportunity to work as a sound utility for any of you working veteran's and learn more, but I can't wait around for that. I have to work, I have to learn, so therefore I will mix. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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