Unpredictable Compositions

[Thomas Popp]

Ok, here is a general question I would love some input on. 

 

I am working on a documentary right now with 3 cameras. To get right into it, these camera operators are  shooting all over the place at the same time and only care about their shot - no one else's. They get themselves into the worst situations and are constantly telling me to get out of the way. 

 

Here is the issue. They decided to also include a Sony FS700 to shoot slow motion of a professional boxer. This particular boxer has an entourage that will not allow me to wire them at all. I have blatantly been shut down, and therefore at practices cannot use anything but the boom.

 

Today, I was booming a sparring session between said boxer and his opponent. The only person talking is the trainer, that is leaning on the ropes of the ring. At the beginning of the shot, I was in a perfect position. However, as these camera guys move around, they will blatantly pick a new shot, and without even looking at their composition, start shooting. It literally feels like a "shoot and pray" type of situation. These camera guys are not only getting cases of gear in the shots, but obviously me and even the other camera operators. They put me into situations where (without wires) I am having to boom a conversation that is over a 12 feet spread between people and it is making it literally impossible to deliver a quality sound track.

 

The thing that broke the camels back today was that one of the camera guys (even knowing he was somewhat joking) decided to show the producer a "beautiful shot" that he took with the slow motion camera. It was a shot that involved him circling around the boxers in the ring. Because he was circling all the way around them, of COURSE the boom eventually got into the shot.

 

How am I supposed to keep my cool and explain to the producer that it is physically impossible for me to make a "perfect" track for each camera when they are on different talent, and are impossible to predict what they are shooting? I could see that it would be my fault if the guy had picked a shot at I wasn't in it, and then I moved into the frame. However, I was in the WHOLE TIME, which means that he picked his composition even knowing it had a problem, and then decided to ignore it and hit record anyways! It is literally impossible to please this one camera guy, and he is the reason why all his shots are getting me in it because he doesn't think about framing his shots - he just shoots and prays…

 

The other camera operators aren't as bad, but this one is literally impossible to work around and puts me in positions that no matter what I am going to get boned every time! The worst part is he is verbally pointing it out now, and I am doing my best to keep cool about it, but losing my patience…

 

Thoughts?

[Martin Kittappa]

I feel for you my friend- I had a similar thing following a hip hop band around- they point blank refused to be mic'd because they only wanted to be filmed in positive situations and didn't want us recording any negativity. If things were going weird then they just sent us away. Thankfully our camera people were all consummate professionals so I didn't have the crew issue you are having, just pain in the butt talent!

 

Anyway one of my thoughts to you- 

 

Plant mics in the corners of the ring or in places where the talent regularly congregates might help you out. tape mics to the corner posts and hide transmitters somewhere under the ring. That way you'll get something and you can be a little more conservative with your boom.

[John Blankenship]

I don't understand why you're telling us and not the producer.  It's his job to make decisions about the compromises inherent in any given production.  You shouldn't complain to him, you should simply explain what you can and cannot get and let the decision be his.

 

It sounds to me like the troublesome cameraman is ruining his shots rather than your sound, but this is all a producer's decision to make. 

 

That, and plant mics like Martin mentioned.

 

If a particular cameraman constantly hoses his own shots, then the producer should be sharp enough to realize this and decide what to do about it.

 

Low key it and make it their problem, not yours, since that is actually the truth of the situation.  It's their shots they're making decisions about so the producer should be on top of it.

 

Also, accept the fact that if you're working with incompetents, then there's nothing you can do that will make them competent.

 

 

[Marc Wielage]

I get why Thomas would complain. Sometimes, in untenable conditions, all you can do is vent to your friends and hope for some sympathy. 

 

If this is a boxing ring, I think a couple of carefully placed shotgun mics on fixed mounts would pick up enough that it could work. Even if they get in the shot, they can be painted out if the production wants to spend the money. If they don't have that kind of time or money, then I'd say, "hey! It's a documentary! Mics are there, just like lights!" I bet the lights get in the shot sometimes, too.

 

As much as I traditionally hate mounting shotgun mics to cameras, maybe that's also an option in this case just for ambience, especially if it's a 360-degree steadicam shot or something. 

 

 

 

It literally feels like a "shoot and pray" type of situation.

 

That's another T-Shirt slogan: SHOOT AND PRAY.

[Philip Perkins]

I like "shoot and pray".  I don't like (or bother) arguing with shooters--it's a no-win situation.  If the producer likes what the shooter is doing and understands what is happening with sound, and is impervious to compromise on their shots, then all you can do is A: boom, B: plant--pref wireless and C: fire up decent shotguns on the cameras.   Give them what they are implicitly asking for.  If post doesn't like it, then you know who you can tell them to call.

 

philp

[Thomas Popp]

Makes sense everyone. 

 

The biggest issue with this shoot is there is absolutely no time or way to plant mics for a job like this, and the fact that they move around so fast the plants would be absolutely useless.

 

I have raised concerns with the producers, but honestly, they don't seem to worry too much, consider they have so many cameras shooting for literally 3-4 hours on end in a scene.

 

I guess I am just curious how to compose ourselves against potential co-workers that literally don't understand that the reason for these issues is because of the lack of their own skills. 

 

Just tired of sound getting a bad rap sheet due to the lack of knowledge and lack of cooperation between departments...

[Solid Goldberger]

Thomas,

sometimes you just need to tell a cameraman it's your shot, he needs to work around you. If you're shooting a Verite doc and the only place to record dialogue is from where you are, he needs to get himself a different angle. At that moment, you doing your job is more important then him doing his.

I also find that wearing a walkie and being able to communicate with the camera department while shooting is helpful to create a more respectful and cooperative work environment. You need to know when you are boning their shot, but they also need to know that without sound there is no "scene".

E.

[geordi]

Brother, I feel your pain on this. I feel like I have worked with exactly your crew on another project... And that one I had the same concerns that were ignored when I presented them to the LP.

Do your best, but be prepared to walk away from this gig if the camera guys complain to producers. On my show, one of the "executive" producers was also one of the extra camera operators. You can imagine how well my concerns were received. Hopefully your producers will be more receptive.

[chrisnewton]

I did a reality gig once where the producer gave  a speech about the importance of the dialogue and how it was critical to the success of the project. All the crew was present and got the message. All the 12 contestants were wired, as were the host and  3 on-cam experts. 4 cameras and 4 soundies. We also had boom mics as there were occasional interactions with other people. All went well except for one cowboy cameraman who got easily bored and went for those "special" shots, with no regard whatsoever for who might be in the frame. I must add that he didn't ever listen to his audio feed and generally had no idea what was going on storywise because of it. He was continually waving us out of the way. No problem when we were using the wireless, but a couple of times I needed to boom somebody. He kept waving at me to get out of his shot but I stood my ground, ignoring him and doing my job. Things got pretty tense and i nearly told him to fuck off many times, but I got the clips. unfortunately some cameramen are clueless egotistical fuck heads. There, I got it off my chest. The rest of the guys were great.

[S Harber]

Ouch. A stressful situation that you guys need to work out.

My method of dealing with things like this are that the wide gets about a 20 second  shot and then I move in and they have to work around me and my needs. The visual is nice but rarely tells the story like words do and they can always cut away from a hosed shot. You can't cut away from a run of good dialog but with 3 cameras they should always have somewhere to go if needed. Not to be snide but how would it be if you turned the tables and played back the sound of where you were forced to pull back out of shot in the middle of some great story beat?

 

When working docs like this I always boom opening my body towards the side where the cameras are, then we can do a bit of back and forth with them when they need some headroom and I can see what they are trying to get. i've watched camera ops trying to get the attention of a boom when they are facing away and that will send them through the roof. 

 

Good luck and really work on the rapport with the camera ops as they will make your life and days ahead working either fun or painful.

 

S

[Philip Perkins]

I've done a number of multiple camera/solo sound verite gigs lately, and what I usually present (before we roll) is that I will watch the A camera like a hawk and do what I can to stay out of its shot (usually the DP), and the other folks have to shoot around me, sorry.  They usually get this logic.  In these situations I really like the other cams to have a mic of their own+ a 1 channel scratch feed from me, so they can spin around and shoot a conversation that the A camera and I aren't shooting and then seamlessly rejoin the A camera coverage.  B-C-D etc camera shooters with their own agendas may have to have the logic of this re the overall story explained to them multiple times....

 

philp

[Christian Spaeth]

Hey Thomas,

 

I also did a documentary about a boxer and his coach. Initially they didn't want to be wired because they were afraid we might use things they say about other boxers, coaches, promoters etc. and put that in the film so they would get problems. Eventually as we got to know each other better, they trusted me a bit more, I also assured them that I won't record any of what they say off camera (even though the DP asked me to do that!)

In your situation I think it is just the most basic necessity to wire the coach at the very least, possibly some of the boxers too. In order to achieve that, a feeling of trust needs to be established. It doesn't seem like you get a lot of help from the cam ops or other crew, but talk to the producer to get the boxers to sit down and have a chat with you and the producer and director. Explain them that nothing will be shown in the movie that they feel uncomfortable with etc. If they don't trust you it will be a very tough job. Talk to them, small talk in shooting breaks. Good luck.

[Jack Norflus]

On a side note I once shot a kick boxing event. And I hid a mic in all the 4 turn buckles and one under the ring (to get the thuds)

And the turn buckle mics got some pretty good coverage.

[studiomprd]

" camera operators are shooting all over the place at the same time and only care about their shot - no one else's....an entourage that will not allow me to wire them at all. "
unreasonable expectation, and BTW, I'd say these movie-makers don't really know what they are doing, quantity over quality, etc.
movie-making is a team sport, and "they" are defining the sound results...

AND:  wiring the talent is an issue between the talent and the producers (and may be contractual) so they have to sort it out, you follow instructions, and report issues to producers.

" These camera guys are not only getting cases of gear in the shots, but obviously me and even the other camera operators. "
while I would consider this acceptable in a documentary, I call this camera problems, clearly...
" impossible to deliver a quality sound track. "
what is a quality sound track on a documentary ?? especially the one that this production has defined for you.

I see a lot of open captioning...(if they can even get it, and if they even want to use all this junk!)

 

on Martin's shoot:  " camera people were all consummate professionals ", thus team players... what does that say about the crew you are dealing with..?

" the troublesome cameraman is ruining his shots rather than your sound "

bingo!

" How am I supposed to keep my cool and explain to the producer "
explain that the camera OP composed the shot (maybe if you are in it, it isn't really sogreat!, that's his/her fault, not yours...
but better yet, no need to explain... other than you are doing your job just as the camera persons are doing theirs.

"not only getting cases of gear in the shots, but obviously me and even the other camera operators "

you need to let production know that you are in SAG-AFTRA, --fibbing allowed--, and that while you understand that you may inadvertently appear in some of the raw footage, you cannot appear at all in the finished product, or any clips or previews that may get posted.

" You shouldn't complain to him, you should simply explain ..."

...that the laws of physics are not going to be broken on this project!

 

"  If the producer likes what the shooter is doing and understands what is happening with sound, and is impervious to compromise on their shots, "

" honestly, they don't seem to worry too much, consider they have so many cameras shooting for literally 3-4 hours on end in a scene. "

reminder:  it is a documentary, and with this much shooting, only 10% or so of the footage will make it. The producers + director will be choosing from all the crap...

 

" Just tired of sound getting a bad rap sheet due to the lack of knowledge and lack of cooperation between departments.. " then just stay back and get what you can... IT's a Doc!!

 

" wearing a walkie "

NOPE!

 

" He was continually waving us out of the way. "

wave back... (don't move!)  you're getting the story his pictures will support!

" the wide gets about a 20 10 second  shot and then I move in and they have to work around me and my needs.  "

YEP

and " The visual is nice but rarely tells the story like words do and they can always cut away from a hosed shot. You can't cut away from a run of good dialog but with 3 cameras they should always have somewhere to go if needed. "

yep too...

and... " I will watch the A camera like a hawk and do what I can to stay out of its shot (usually the DP), and the other folks have to shoot around me, sorry. "

yep three..