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Nagra Stories Sound-men won’t ever tell


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Nice! Thank you for posting this link. The "Nagra Stories Sound-men won't ever tell" from JBond is probably the best long running thread on the site, always providing such a wealth of history and inte

Both the bias and HF adjustments have to be made for each tape type. On the Nagra III this requires components to be changed.

As you can see from the previous video, everyone everywhere time and time again referrers to the old Nagra SN myth, the wrong story, told so many times over and over on the internet.  I have yet to

Posted Images

I begin to wonder if I am presently the only one at jwsoundgroup running a Nagra III on cells and try to charge them with the original ATN & PAR.

Anybody else? - ???

 

I found two interesting manuals for the Nagra III in the net.

 

https://museumofmagneticsoundrecording.org/images/R2R/NagraIIIManual.pdf

 

http://lcweb2.loc.gov/master/mbrs/recording_preservation/manuals/Nagra III Instructions Manual.pdf

 

Both give valuable information, as for instance about the power consumption of the Nagra III:

 

Test mode: 85 mA

Playback mode: 175 mA

Record mode: 205 mA

 

Given these (rel. low) figures a Nagra III could well run for about 40 h on cells with 10.000 mAh, right?

We could let run about 40 to 50 7inch tapes on it, with 540 m length, at the minum.

With batteries could be up to 60 - 80 tapes - but cells are cooler.

How many tapes do you let run through your Nagra/ week?  🙂

 

Matthias

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Philip Perkins said:

The other issue with running a Nagra of any sort of internal batteries was the sluggish fast-wind speeds, vs the ATN.  Not much of an issue on recording jobs, a huge issue on music video playback jobs of that era.

 

Philip, good idea to check this, with a Nagra III (No. B65, 6393), with original ATN (No. 8690):

 

5'' spools, with 900 ft tape, 270 meter:

ATN: 2:52  = 172 seconds

Cells: 3:09 = 189 seconds

 

7'' spools, with 1.800 ft tape, 540 meter:

ATN: 8:30 = 510 seconds

Cells: 10:08 = 608 seconds

At the end of both tests with the 7'' spools you had to use your finger in order to get the rest of the tape on the other wheel.

 

The cells have improved since the time you remember, I have a set of 10.000 mAh, though the voltage is about the same as with the old Nic-Cad cells.

 

To see how well you can use a Nagra with cells, when it comes to recoding in different places I would never connect a Nagra to the mains any more.

Wiith cells no need to check for hum of any kind, which you can fetch from the ATN, easily.

 

 

Résumé:

At 5'' spools fast-wind speed is not an issue at all.

At 7'' spools the rewind is both quite "sluggish". But, we can take this to slow down our hectic life, become more patient. Maybe we head towards less events/seconds in the future?

Nagra III - the perfect mean to enjoy the p r e s e n t, to make a journey into the past, when people tend to have something we don't have any more: time.

 

 

Matthias

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6 hours ago, JMB said:

 

Philip, good idea to check this, with a Nagra III (No. B65, 6393), with original ATN (No. 8690):

 

5'' spools, with 900 ft tape, 270 meter:

ATN: 2:52  = 172 seconds

Cells: 3:09 = 189 seconds

 

7'' spools, with 1.800 ft tape, 540 meter:

ATN: 8:30 = 510 seconds

Cells: 10:08 = 608 seconds

At the end of both tests with the 7'' spools you had to use your finger in order to get the rest of the tape on the other wheel.

 

The cells have improved since the time you remember, I have a set of 10.000 mAh, though the voltage is about the same as with the old Nic-Cad cells.

 

To see how well you can use a Nagra with cells, when it comes to recoding in different places I would never connect a Nagra to the mains any more.

Wiith cells no need to check for hum of any kind, which you can fetch from the ATN, easily.

 

 

Résumé:

At 5'' spools fast-wind speed is not an issue at all.

At 7'' spools the rewind is both quite "sluggish". But, we can take this to slow down our hectic life, become more patient. Maybe we head towards less events/seconds in the future?

Nagra III - the perfect mean to enjoy the p r e s e n t, to make a journey into the past, when people tend to have something we don't have any more: time.

 

 

Matthias

Yeah, not many music videos were done with Nagra IIIs.  Mostly IV-S.  Never any hum etc issues with ATN on 2 Nagra IIIs, 1 IV-L, one 4.2, one IV-SL (later modded to Harvey-style) and countless rented IVS-TCs.

 

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On the ATN supplies the ripple capacitor is often completely dried out. It can easily be replaced by a new capacitor (1000-2200 uF, suitable voltage),  making the supply as good as new. And without hum.

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7 hours ago, dela said:

On the ATN supplies the ripple capacitor is often completely dried out. It can easily be replaced by a new capacitor (1000-2200 uF, suitable voltage),  making the supply as good as new. And without hum.

 

 

Dela, this is a good idea. The capacitor is quite easy to access: you open the top screws, after you take off the top cover we have access to the capacitor.

No need to touch the bottom screws!

 

In my ATN it is a

SIC-SAFCO

RELSIC

1000 µF,

seems to be 63 - 75 Volt

Dimensions: diameter 27 mm x 43 mm long

With such diameter we can get a new capacitor of up to 4.700 or even 6.800 µF.

To my understanding 50 Volt would do it.

I measured the voltage at the capacitor when ATN was on the mains (230 Volt here in Germany), it

showed 22,23 Volt

 

To replace the capacitor in the ATN I choose one 25 x 35 mm, 6.800 µF, with 50 Volt.

 

Matthias

 

 

DSC09850.JPG

 

 

 

DSC09851.JPG

DSC09852.JPG

DSC09857.JPG

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Looks like problem solved Matthias 👍 nice pictures and tutorial on dela's advice . You produce some very nice posts.

 

Good work, dela,
When life long professional Soundmen chime in with actual first-hand knowledge using Nagras to record many hundreds or thousands of Hollywood movies, they stated they always had their Nagras plugged in without any problems.  Gave a clear view and opinions on using rechargeables. 
We will never get a better sense of professional experience with early Nagras than you get from Hollywood Soundmen. 
After all, they were not recording high school plays at parent night.
All along I thought the problems lie with JMB's equipment, not with the memories of the Sound professionals. 


The capacitor makes sense, when Jeff, Scott, and Philip used the equipment, the capacitors were 50 years younger.
 Of freeking course, there was no buzzing. These are "Professional Soundmen" - the best there is in sound.
 These are the men with many hours, many years of "ears on" experience. They would know and remember noise interference better than anyone while producing some of the biggest names in Hollywood Films.
It's amazing how much you guys remember about battery times, volts, rewind times, etc.  It's like you are still using vintage analog Nagras today.

 

 

Thank You dela.  Time and time again you always help so many people on this site without getting the credit that you fully deserve. 

 

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Yeah, Georges Quellet was a bright engineer who had some interesting ideas (like the interchangeable head block).

 

I used a few of the Stellavox recorders over the years, but they never felt quite as solid as the Nagra’s.

On 9/7/2020 at 1:38 AM, dela said:

On the ATN supplies the ripple capacitor is often completely dried out. It can easily be replaced by a new capacitor (1000-2200 uF, suitable voltage),  making the supply as good as new. And without hum.


Regarding the ATN capacitors; for whatever reason, the caps Kudelski used in many of the units over the years were never quite the quality of the ones in the recorders. Never quite understood this.

 

I replace them as a matter of course in any of the older suppliers I run across.

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On 9/10/2020 at 2:15 AM, Scott Smith said:

Yeah, Georges Quellet was a bright engineer who had some interesting ideas (like the interchangeable head block).

 

I used a few of the Stellavox recorders over the years, but they never felt quite as solid as the Nagra’s.

 

Hi Nick, hi Scott -

being kind of flimsy was eventually the main target of the Stellavox recorders, kind of an "answer" to the more heavier Nagras III and 4.2.

It's recording quality is supposed to be equal or even a little superior to a Nagra 4.2 S, according to an US-dealer, who sold & maintained both of them.

It is a pleasure to let a Stellavox run, especially for recording your own voice, but this is more or less for hardcore enthusiasts, who know how much verve you need to get it all set up; then it get's "inspiring", kind of brightens up all you do, opens up the sky . . .

 

Task: Do you know how to turn any Stellvox into a less "flimsy" unit, giving it a  s o l i d (!) tape transport/ rewind, with o n e  go? 🙃

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On 8/18/2020 at 1:25 PM, Scott Smith said:

 

Still have most (but not all) of the Nagra's I've owned and used (along with a couple of Stellavox's). Just can't bring myself to part with them...

 

Congrats again on a great collection and dedication to preservation.

 

 

 

The Soundman, Vintage Machines and Credits

 

Scott, Jeff, Phillip, and others

Never mind part with them. You can make a very nice looking display in your home with just a few recorders. 

 

Buy a 35mm movie trailer on eBay, thousands of titles. Get one or more of the movies which you are responsible for and credited for the sound on the displayed Nagra's, drape the film roll around a little bit, and show the title on the roll of film (as shown in the picture below). Add a flex led-light strip to give it a movie marquee reflection look. Prop up and angle the recorders and any other memorabilia you have from the day.

 

Turn once-stored, no longer used classic machines into a beautiful display.

 Now step back and continue to appreciate the machines you spent thousands of hours hands-on with and all the memories in a New Light. 

 

Your machines, Your movies, Your name within the credits for all of time.

Priceless...😎

 

 

qk0CQjE 2.jpeg

 

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I only wish, Mr. Bond!  I miss all those machines.  But the reality of being a working soundie back then was that Nagras were too valuable to turn into museum displays: the sale of each one financed the purchase of the next one!   I still have the last in the dynasty (not on display...no room and wife not down), but all the others are out there serving or being admired somewhere, I hope! 

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Yikes, I didn’t think of that scenario, sorry to bring it up in such a fashion. 


You could go and buy the recorders but I guess it's one thing to dig them out of a closet 

and another when you have to repurchase them to make a display.

All you really need is a Nagra III Nagra 4.2 maybe a Nagra IV-S 
I did it, and I don't even work here. 🤷‍♂️
 
On the bright side. You still have all your credits and that lives on forever.👍

 

 

 

 

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No, Mr. Bond, I'll let you be the collector.  These machines were /are basically just tools to me, something I sweated over and carried through all sorts of weathers and situations all over the world.  I know them too well to be very romantic about them, and while I still appreciate Mr. Kudelski's genius and accomplishments I'm also very glad that the technology available to me as a location recordist has moved on quite a ways.  As I said, I hope the Nagras I used to own are now held by people like yourself who appreciate them for what they are!

 

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I think I currently own a yacht which was once owned by Stefan Kudelski. The yacht is a 1968/69 Nicholson 38. The information I have is that Stefan bought the yacht from Prince Ibrahim of Egypt and at that time the boat was called KATKOOT. I would be interested if there is more history on the Yacht ?

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Ken,

Wow, pretty cool you have his yacht. Do you think he owned it in 1977?  If so he would have installed his newly developed Nargafax in it. I was told it was developed for use on his boat and It was designed in one weekend. 

 

From Nagra

Nagrafax Weather forecast map receiver and printer for sailing.

 

There are different accounts of the story of the NAGRAFAX.

Stefan Kudelski was an accomplished sailor who was once surprised by a storm in the Mediterranean sea.

At that time, although the weather forecast was broadcast, it seems it was not precise enough to predict local storms, like the one found in the Agean sea around Greece.

 

Upon his return, Stefan Kudelski designed a FAX that could receive data from weather stations and print an accurate map that allowed sailors to find the local weather conditions and sail to a safe haven if necessary.

The NAGRAFAX was a must for any sailing boat and larger commercial vessels. It was used until very recently.

 

https://www.nagraaudio.com/product/nagra-fax/

 

 

MS74XJP.jpg

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  • 3 weeks later...

 

 

Your neighbor calls asking if you can help get her tractor running,

you drop what you're doing and rush right over

and this is what you find.

 

tgirl48.jpg

 
 
Would you wake her and help start her tractor? 
Stand there and wait till she wakes up?
Or
Go back home and finish reading  JBonds Nagra Stories? Again?
So many questions...
 

Quick index to select posts, click the blue links below

 
42   Jeff’s movie list                                                                    307   Nixon Resigns  Picture                                    
364   CIA the Second Recorder                                                455   Nagra II  Video                              
146   Meet Jeff (Youtube)                                                          319 New The Nagra JBR  updated  Feb 2018      
373 New The Nagra Story, updated  Feb 2018                    478   The Third Covert recorder   
151   My Nagra VPR-5                                                                 325   My Nagra Source                                               
400   The Nagra SN  (Copy )                                                       479   The 1966 Covert recording
220   A different kind of Soundman                                        333   A Special Gift                                                   
404    There’s only One, Nagra I                                                480   The Fourth Recorder
225   What I found out about the Nagra I                              335   The Nagra DH Difference                               
405  Great Nagra Collection  “Vienna Collection                   482   Finally Fifth and Final Recorde
232   Conversation with Stefan Kudelski                                337   The Yellow Recorder                                         
422   An appropriate answer                                                      430   What happened to - Serie Noir?
252   The First Nagra III                                                                347   CIA issued Recorder                                       
425   Early Nagra SN serial #’s                                                    363   Dating & "New" Reverse Record
268   The Sony and the Telefunken                                           790   GREAT Nagra III Collection by BGAULLIER     
952   Earliest Known Nagra III  by PiO                                          576   The Nagra IS Differences  by DELA 
 #27  Senator Mike Michaels interview                                    681  1st 1959 Nagra III  by Antonine 
922   Jwsound gets Attention from Nagra Audio                   154  Marilyn and the 1960 Nagra III Video                
962   The Gold SN - Test                                                                466  Video -  Movie Sound Effects   
282   1969 Zuiko 1st Microcassette video                   906  New The Nagra SN Series - from Prototype to Production 1960 -1971 to 1999        
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I have a couple of problems with this new style forum and maybe adjustments can be made by whoever made the changes . 


 I used to be able to post pictures within the text.  If you go back through my posts, you will see many pictures and text in the same post. That is now impossible for me to do again.
The attachment method on this new site does not put the picture in the text.  You cannot post a picture through a URL link as text. Or at least I can't do it as I did before.  I used to be able to do it as text then once posted the link becomes the picture.
 
That has been the way I was doing it for the last 5 years. Now you have to upload a picture to Jwsound and you have no control where the picture will be shown within the text. It's ok if you only have one picture or you want all your pictures listed at the top or bottom of the post but if you want to insert the pictures to be within the text that is no longer possible to do as a simple task as far as I can see.
 Hopefully, someone will be able to address this and get it to work again or explain to me a simple way to do it.  What I would normally do is post this below into the text where I wanted the picture.

 

 

[img]https://i.imgur.com/ztHw6ED.jpg[/img]

 

 

and that would be a picture when posted. No longer can I do that or know how to do that.  Say I now wanted another picture in with the text, you would again post the link and there would be a picture below.  

 

 

[img]https://i.imgur.com/ztHw6ED.jpg[/img]

 

 

 

You cannot do that anymore. A simple copy and paste from my picture site was all it needed . It would be great if that ability could be put back.

So basically the way this post looks now would be what it looks like before I hit the [Submit Reply] or hit the preview Icon above.  Except now it does not show the two pictures.

 

 


The second problem with the new site is your post and pictures only use 2/3 of my laptop screen, a screen size like you are viewing on an Ipad even though you're on a full-size computer or laptop.

 

The right-hand side of the screen is for notes and statistics about the thread but scroll down and the rest of the page is almost 1/3 of the page is a gray blank useless space for the rest of the thread. It should only be 2/3 while something is posted on the right side. Once there is nothing to post on the right the screen should return to FULL size.  The screen shot below is what I see.

 

 

Screen Shot 2020-10-17 at 1.47.14 PM.jpeg

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I hadn't noticed any change to the attachment procedure and I have, I believe, made some posts with images in line  ---  text followed  by an image, then more text and possibly another image.

 

I will look into this. My procedure was always to write some text then "attach" an image by dragging to the window that accepts attachments (sometimes "choose files..."). Then I check to see where the cursor is in the text, click it where I want  the image to show, then back down to the attachment window and click on the "+".

7EGusGP.jpg

I will try and demonstrate this for myself and get back to you.

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On 10/17/2020 at 6:19 PM, Jeff Wexler said:

Then I check to see where the cursor is in the text, click it where I want  the image to show, then back down to the attachment window and click on the "+".

Thanks for the reply, what you said above works, the part that I was missing was the cursor in the text before hitting the plus+.

Before, I would hit the plus and It always put the picture at the top. Then I would try to move the picture around in the text and couldn't.

I see now I should have been putting the cursor first it puts the picture right where the cursor is instead of the top. As you said.
 
For 5 years I just copied and pasted the BBCode in red for message boards & forums shown below but the  site would no longer accept it.   I tried most of the other options below, message boards and blogs, etc. and they did not work either. I just tried the direct link (yellow arrow), It works!!! The only one that does, and the only one I didn't try. Puts the picture right where I want it instantly. Using the direct link I don't have go through the process of uploading the picture or use the add link button to get the picture in the post.
It now works for me like it always did with copy and paste into the text and that is what I wanted. I knew it had to be something I was doing wrong or had to figure out.  Inserting Youtube videos still work as they did before.

Thank you for your help.

 

 

 

t53Oyg5.jpg

 

 

 

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I was looking for an old email and came across an interesting list of what I bought since 2002, and what I paid.
Like this,
POSTER NAGRA JBR SURVEILLANCE TAPE RECORDER 12X15 MAX BID $39.99 WON $24.00
Wow, I forgot what I paid so little for it.
A glass-framed Nagra JBR poster $24.00 starting bid back in 2008.  I was the only one that bid on it. I was probably the only one on eBay at the time that knew what it was. Never saw another one - probably only a handful produced. What's more shocking to me was my esnipe high bid was 38.99. Looks like I didn't care if I won it or not at the time.  How many could there be? What was I thinking?  I didn't own a JBR at the time and probably figured I'd never have one.
 
Then in 2017, I was told this below by a very relevant and important person in the FBI, now retired.  It was an honor to have communications with him.
 
"As I advised, xxxxx xxxxxx told me that Nagra New York received a letter from the FBI advising that these recorders were an Interception of Communication (IOC) device and if Nagra continued to advertise these units, there could be legal repercussions. I don’t think Nagra advertised the recorders in the USA again."
 
Now, to me the JBR poster is Priceless @ $24.00.
 
The JBR recorder pictured in Nagra's glass-framed poster looks like it's sitting on top of the glass, outside of the picture - not a cheaply made poster, but high quality like everything Nagra produces. The poster depicts a dark covert setting. Of course, that's my JBR on the bottom that is actually sitting on top of the glass for size reference.  The way the poster was done being zoomed in on the JBR, Nagra really made that JBR pop out in the poster if you compare the two recorders.
 
Actually, Nagra's JBR poster with the newspaper and black background gave me the idea to make my own picture, the Nixon Watergate photo, made with the newspaper of the day, the recorder of the day, even the ashtray of the day monogramed with The Watergate Hotel.  My picture looks kinda flat compared to Nagra's poster that pops out.  I could not just zoom in  because I made mine to suggest a very nervous person that stepped away to relieve himself who, by the way, has the missing 18 minutes.  Nixon never used a Nagra SN, my picture suggests someone did.
My poster is all fiction of course, or is it...
 
 
"The Nagra JBR along with the SNST miniature recorders were categorized by the U.S. Department of Justice to be Interception of Communication Devices  (IOC).
The IOC statutes make it illegal to own, use, train and/ or educate non-law enforcement personnel to use this equipment.” 
ThjrwN7.jpg
 
 
 
fAh1WLb.jpgFirst posted Dec. 18th, 2015

 

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