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Walkingcure

Wireless with Senheiser EW 100 G4

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Hello there, We are considering the Senheiser EW 100 G4 setup for a wireless boom setup to be used on a feature film. It will be used in conjunction with another boom which will be wired to the Zoom F4 recorder. Do you think the G4 setup is reliable for production sound on a feature film ? And will there be major sonic differences between the wireless and the wired booms ?

 

Do you recommend some other options which are better than the G4 and cheaper than Letronics/Zaxcom wireless systems ?

 

What if we eradicate the wireless system completely and opt for a small field recorder like the Zoom H5 which will act as a pseudo wireless setup in this case (not wireless but independent from the production mixer). Would this be a better choice than the G4 ? Is there a way to pair and trigger both the Zoom F4 and H5 at the same time ?

 

I would really love to hear your suggestions.

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Why must you be wireless? You’re definitely going to hear a difference between a Sennheiser Gx boom and a hard lined boom. I say go cabled until you can afford a lectro or equivalent.

 

also, why would the production mixer want another recorder on the boom away from where he/she can monitor or operate it? 

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5 hours ago, Walkingcure said:

Do you recommend some other options which are better than the G4 and cheaper than Letronics/Zaxcom wireless systems ?

 

 

Get a Lectrosonics LMa/UM200 (or better) being feed by a Sound Devices MM1, with at least a Lectro 200 series RX

 

5 hours ago, Walkingcure said:

What if we eradicate the wireless system completely and opt for a small field recorder like the Zoom H5 which will act as a pseudo wireless setup in this case (not wireless but independent from the production mixer). Would this be a better choice than the G4 ? Is there a way to pair and trigger both the Zoom F4 and H5 at the same time ?

 

Nooooooooooooooo!! 

 

Don't settle for anything less than an F4, so get 2nd one. Or use a MM1, they're dirt cheap secondhand (an MP1 is even cheaper! But then you'll need to use an IEM for your boom op to be able to monitor "something"). 

 

 

But I will congratulation you on considering how to use 2x booms! Many more productions should be doing this by default. 

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4 hours ago, Trey LaCroix said:

Why must you be wireless? You’re definitely going to hear a difference between a Sennheiser Gx boom and a hard lined boom. I say go cabled until you can afford a lectro or equivalent.

 

also, why would the production mixer want another recorder on the boom away from where he/she can monitor or operate it? 

 

Wireless simply because of our location constraints. Its a mountainous region with cramped pathways and a considerably big cast. We though it'd be better if one of the booms could go wireless.

 

And to your second question, no we don't want the second boom to be away from the production mixer where it can't be monitored ... Hence my question of whether these recorders could be paired in anyway. 

2 hours ago, IronFilm said:

Get a Lectrosonics LMa/UM200 (or better) being feed by a Sound Devices MM1, with at least a Lectro 200 series RX

 

 

Our budget is too limited for such a setup :)

 

2 hours ago, IronFilm said:

Don't settle for anything less than an F4, so get 2nd one. Or use a MM1, they're dirt cheap secondhand (an MP1 is even cheaper! But then you'll need to use an IEM for your boom op to be able to monitor "something"). 

 

 

Do you think two F4 units could be paired together ? Or are you suggesting they run independent with the boom op monitoring/controlling his own signal ?  The first scenario would save us of a lot of headaches. 

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35 minutes ago, Walkingcure said:

Our budget is too limited for such a setup :)

 

 

Seriously?? 

 

Some ballpark figures if you bargain hunt hard:

 

Sound Devices MM1 on ebay for $250ish 

Lectro UCR210D/UM200 for $350ish

 

Total cost US$600ish, if you put in some effort and time into hunting out the bargains. 

 

Similar cost to buying the Sennheiser G4 setup that you're considering already, but my suggestion would be much much better for your 2nd boom! 

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54 minutes ago, IronFilm said:

Seriously?? 

 

Some ballpark figures if you bargain hunt hard:

 

Sound Devices MM1 on ebay for $250ish 

Lectro UCR210D/UM200 for $350ish

 

Total cost US$600ish, if you put in some effort and time into hunting out the bargains. 

 

Similar cost to buying the Sennheiser G4 setup that you're considering already, but my suggestion would be much much better for your 2nd boom! 

 

Will look for the setup that you've suggested. Any trustworthy ebay seller that specializes in sound equipment that you would recommend ? Can I post a Want to Buy ad here in the forum ?

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1 hour ago, Walkingcure said:

Wireless simply because of our location constraints. Its a mountainous region with cramped pathways and a considerably big cast. We though it'd be better if one of the booms could go wireless.

Sure it could but unless you’re willing to use halfway decent gear one of the booms (the cabled one) is going to sound a lot better than the other.

 

as ironfilm mentioned, that lectro setup would sound pretty nice. My first wireless boom was an MM1 running into a um400. Still the best sounding wireless boom rig I have ever heard. We switched to a plug on because my boom op like the transmitter on the mic end of the pole.

 

there is no way to wirelessly trigger 2 F4s to record at the same time. You could use TC to trigger one from the other, but you would need a cable connecting them. Get another F4 (or F8 as they are dirt cheap now) and leave it with the sound mixer. Let the two boom ops... well... boom.

5 minutes ago, Walkingcure said:

Can I post a Want to Buy ad here in the forum ?

After 5 post it will become visible. There is an MM1 in the consignment section at Location Sound Corp right now.

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18 minutes ago, Trey LaCroix said:

Sure it could but unless you’re willing to use halfway decent gear one of the booms (the cabled one) is going to sound a lot better than the other.

 

as ironfilm mentioned, that lectro setup would sound pretty nice. My first wireless boom was an MM1 running into a um400. Still the best sounding wireless boom rig I have ever heard. We switched to a plug on because my boom op like the transmitter on the mic end of the pole.

 

there is no way to wirelessly trigger 2 F4s to record at the same time. You could use TC to trigger one from the other, but you would need a cable connecting them. Get another F4 (or F8 as they are dirt cheap now) and leave it with the sound mixer. Let the two boom ops... well... boom.

 

Great ! Thanks for your suggestions. The UM 400 would be a bit more expensive than the setup Ironfilm is suggesting ... right ? 

 

I am very new to all this so when you suggest high end equipment I get clueless :) So just to be clear.

 

The UM200 is the transmitter and the UMC210d is the receiver right ?

And what receiver would work with the UM400 that you are suggesting ? 

I found this on ebay.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Lectrosonics-UCR201-UM200C-Block-26-w-Extras/323847248264?redirect=mobile

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10 minutes ago, Walkingcure said:

The UM200 is the transmitter and the UMC210d is the receiver right ?

And what receiver would work with the UM400 that you are suggesting ? 

The UM200 is the transmitter and the UCR201 is the receiver.

 

any 400 series receiver (or the most recent receiver like the SRs and LR) will work with the UM400s.

 

The 200s are probably the best bang for your buck and sound really good, but the 400s sound a bit better.

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For a boom to deliver really good audio I would only suggest a Lectro 400 series

Being digital rather than analog their is a difference in quality

 

I presume good audio is what is wanted by the production !!!???

 

mike

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1 hour ago, Walkingcure said:

 

Will look for the setup that you've suggested. Any trustworthy ebay seller that specializes in sound equipment that you would recommend ? Can I post a Want to Buy ad here in the forum ?

 

Just use your usual common sense as when buying anything from ebay. There are tonnes and tonnes of sellers on ebay. 

 

And yes jwsoundgroup has their own dedicated buy/sell forum. 

28 minutes ago, Trey LaCroix said:

The UM200 is the transmitter and the UCR201 is the receiver.

 

any 400 series receiver (or the most recent receiver like the SRs and LR) will work with the UM400s.

 

The 200s are probably the best bang for your buck and sound really good, but the 400s sound a bit better.

 

Absolutely, the newer stuff is going to be even better. But for the very budget constrained buyer then the Lectro 200 series gives good bang for your buck. 

 

Remember the OP was originally going to use a Sennheiser G4 buttplug! So an MM1 plus any kind of Lectro is going to be a massive massive step up for them. 

44 minutes ago, Walkingcure said:

I am very new to all this so when you suggest high end equipment I get clueless :) So just to be clear.

 

Eh, in 2019 the Lectro 200 series should be thought as "low end" gear (maaaaybe "midrange"??) 

 

But many many years ago, then yes the Lectro 200 series was "high end". 

 

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I talked to one of the eBay sellers. He owns a Lectrosonics UCR205D/UM200B UHF Wireless Lavalier Microphone System in bag block 27 set. Is this good enough ? 

 

And would love to hear your thoughts on this one as well. 

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Lectrosonics-UCR201-UM200C-Block-26-w-Extras/323847248264?_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20180105095853%26meid%3D6caafd9268d24397a1dc47ef14f47c18%26pid%3D100903%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D20%26sd%3D323847248264%26itm%3D323847248264%26pmt%3D0%26noa%3D1%26pg%3D2509164&_trksid=p2509164.c100903.m5276

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I don't know G4, but I know G1 to G3 and 2000 (which is the professional series). They all had tremendous problems reproducing low frequencies and sibilants when there was an input signal not coming from a lav optimised for the system. Also there is no limiter.

A boom has very high demands on the wireless in case of dynamic range and all kinds of sounds.

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1 minute ago, Mungo said:

I don't know G4, but I know G1 to G3 and 2000 (which is the professional series). They all had tremendous problems reproducing low frequencies and sibilants when there was an input signal not coming from a lav optimised for the system. Also there is no limiter.

A boom has very high demands on the wireless in case of dynamic range and all kinds of sounds.

 

Moving away from the Senheiser options as everyone is suggesting that it isn't worth it. Looking for Lectrosonics 200 series kit. But since I have no experience with these systems I will have to do more research. 

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