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got any "sound" advice for doc production?


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Hi folks,

 

First post here in about 6 years I think!! I am a doc filmmaker but one that actually cares about good sound! I am setting up a new camera and sound setup and would really appreciate some advice and suggestions for how to do this properly. I am shooting mostly as a single operator, so I need to be able to do both picture and sound. I am shooting on a canon c300 mk3, and I have a mixpre 6 mk2 attached to the battery plate on the rear rods (recording in 32bit float 96khz). I have my trusty old 416 on the camera (I will likely update that to the cs-3e) and cos-11's going into a wisycom dual receiver.

 

i need to have record trigger working as im doing both sound and picture (sorry!!). At present I had the camera generating TC and sending it to the mix pre via the BNC to 3.5 aux in. Set to rec run. This worked fine for the trigger, but there is a strange thing happening where the timecode of the end of the clips recorded on the mix pre is then duplicated at the start of the next clip, it might be that there is some kind of delay or something happening on the mix pre end. It messes up syncing in post so that method is going in the bin. i was going to send TC from the mix pre to the C300, set to TOD, (is that right?) output from the stereo out on the top, and that works fine, but i cannot get the rec trigger to work anymore. I am talking to SD about that and hopefully there is a solution for that. 

 

I am going to be shooting the protests at COP26 in November and there will be multiple cameras, at least one other pro level camera with a TC input, so I have been looking into how to sync the cameras and what the best setups would be. What would you guys recommend? the mix pre will be always attached to the c300 and feeding it TC from its clock, so i was going to use the mix pre as the master, jam it to an Ultrasync One and attach that to the other pro camera. Does that all sound ok? am I doing anything really wrong? could the setup be better? Of course I would love a sound person, but there is no budget for one on this project.

 

thanks,

 

Chris

 

 

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Record trigger and timecode are separate things, right? I mean if you could set the tc to free run, that would (probably) make the timecode more usable. But then again i don't know if it's the timecode starting that's triggering the recording on the mixpre, or if it's a recording flag... 

 

Edit: just read the manual. You can record trigger with HDMI, or timecode. So unless there's a way for you to mute timecode when camera is stopped, you'd have to stick with rec run, and the duplicate frames. If you could go hdmi from camera to the mixpre, that would allow you to trigger the recorder separate from timecode. You'd still have to sync the camera and mixpre with Tc somehow. 

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What if you stayed with your current setup (in which the record-trigger camera > MixPre works, but with wonky TC on the MIx Pre) and split the camera TC output so it could go to both the Mix Pre TC in (for trigger) and to a spare audio track on the MixPre?  You might then be able to use the Aux TC feature of the NLE etc or a 3rd party app to post sync sound to picture?     https://www.videotoolshed.com/product/ltc-convert-auxtc/ 

 

Another question: you are going to a lot of trouble to add the MixPre to your camera (and making it kind of awkward to shoot I'd guess)...do you need that many more audio tracks than the 2 the camera has?  Do you need them all the time?  Do you have a bunch of wireless RX attached to your camera too (feeding the MixPre)?

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thanks for the suggestions guys!

 

yes the TC is also triggering the record function on the mix pre, but the TC lag or duplication or whatever it is seems like a pretty lousey bug, it basically makes the function useless. SD should be able to fix that.

 

i have an hdmi cable arriving today to see if i can trigger with that while the mixpre sends TOD TC to the camera, but its another (poor quality, lossy) cable that i dont want hanging out the back of the camera / mixer, if it was all locking connectors i wouldnt mind.

 

15 hours ago, Philip Perkins said:

What if you stayed with your current setup (in which the record-trigger camera > MixPre works, but with wonky TC on the MIx Pre) and split the camera TC output so it could go to both the Mix Pre TC in (for trigger) and to a spare audio track on the MixPre?  You might then be able to use the Aux TC feature of the NLE etc or a 3rd party app to post sync sound to picture?     https://www.videotoolshed.com/product/ltc-convert-auxtc/ 

 

Another question: you are going to a lot of trouble to add the MixPre to your camera (and making it kind of awkward to shoot I'd guess)...do you need that many more audio tracks than the 2 the camera has?  Do you need them all the time?  Do you have a bunch of wireless RX attached to your camera too (feeding the MixPre)?

 

i dont want the hassle of messing about with waveforms in post if i can avoid it (its the only work around at the moment as ive been recording a backup scratch audio on the camera itself) but im going to be shooting multi cam setups so TDO TC is the preferred way of syncing all the cameras (unless you guys have other suggestions?)

 

im using the mix pre for the 32bit float, i actually have it mounted on rods with the pots facing me so i can sort of mix levels while filming (I am a feature doc filmmaker, often working in difficult / remote / dangerous situations) but the 32bit float means i can recover anything blown out etc. i also do sometimes have 2/3 lavs plus the shotgun. also mounted on the back actually helps with the balance of the camera as i have a heavy cine zoom lens on the front that makes it very front heavy otherwise! 

 

Just 1 dual RX hot shoe mounted feeding the mixpre, or i can change the bottom and make it a slot in

 

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just to update in case it is of any use to anyone;

 

i got a HDMI cable running from the c300 to the mixpre, setting the HDMI output to 1080, I am able to get run / stop with that, with TC coming out of the mixpre into the c300 as TOD / Free run (with no frame delay) and vice versa, the frame delay is still present when using rec run from the camera to the mixpre whether i trigger with hdmi or the TC cable.

 

thanks,

 

Chris

 

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I would avoid the rec run system, the two machines cannot record the exact amount of frames I suppose. That is probably why you have this  frame delay. Also running the sound rec longer than picture is highly recommended as you might know. If you worry about missing a rec on the audio why not just record it continuously while in the middle of the action (and stick to free run or TOD TC for all units)?

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