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Red One Noise Problems?


Hugh Holesome
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Forgive me but didn't see this in basic search.

Has anyone else picked up camera noise on Red One?

This includes auto and silent modes hearing the fans.

Additionally, I am hearing the hard drive processing.

Day 10 now and seems as though it wasn't there on earlier days.

Any comments suggestions or BARNEYS for this problem?

Thanks

Hugh

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Hugh,

Glad to see you working.  Lots happening in your neck of the woods, so you should stay busy, and I expect you will see a LOT of RED cameras.

The RED is never totally silent in "silent" mode.  But be sure that it is set on "silent" and not on "quiet".  If they keep rolling all the time, the camera will warm up and override the settings, but unlikely in Michigan in January.  Cutting the camera between takes will help, if you can talk them into it.  If the RED has not been serviced in a while, there can be dirt in the fans, which continue to turn slowly in "silent" mode.  This can make the difference, but will still be more quiet than most tape-based cameras and many film cameras too.  You might just be a bit nervous, so I suggest listening to some dailies (the specific takes you are worried about) on speakers.  You may discover that it's less of a problem than you think it is, and that's before the post guys have had a go at it.

Hard Drive spinning... well if it's really THAT noisy, then they should get new drives, but I have never experienced that being a problem on the MANY RED shoots I have done.  If it persists, then just ask they use CF cards for the scenes where the camera is close enough to the actors or the set is quiet enough for the drives to be heard.  But I suspect, again, that you might be more worried about it than you should be.

Feel free to call me, Hugh.  It'd be fun to catch up.

Robert

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Guest Eric Lamontagne

I have heard camera related noise coming from those REDs in slient mode, they make more noise that the D20 and D21. Sometimes the onboard LCD fan is also adding to the camera noise. Best bet is in a quiet moment on set, walk over to the camera and ask the 1stAC to roll a take. Use your ears or better yet a mic to directly source the noise you hear. Easy to say, hard to do in practice!

Good Luck

Eric

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It is most definitely coming from the fans under the body when I sniffed it with the mic.

I also considered that the fans may be dirty...now to convince camera dept...

It's not as cool as you might think with the giant heater on set so the lead actress won't complain (or walk off)

Also sniffed the drive and there is data noise going on.  It's an external hard drive after all.

Just don't ever think I heard this noise on any RED before.

Maybe we need to add more lights to our gear and give them a taste of their own medicine!

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<<it's fairly easy to EQ the noise out.>>

the more you mess with the stuff, the more messy the stuff gets. better to get it without the gunk if possible, don't you agree?

yes i do, however I was speaking more towards a post perspective.  I've been editing a feature this past month/2 ... red fan noise all over the place, but it's been fairly easy to notch out.  Not to say to use this as an excuse for being lazy, but there becomes a point when everyone is spinning their wheels over something that won't really go away completely.

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The good news is, Jim Jannard of Red announced awhile back that they're discontinuing the hard drive and switching over completely to RAM drives. (Also bigger CF cards, for those who want to stick with those.) He really, really hates the hard drive -- lots of dropped frames, microphonics, and other issues.

Haven't heard whether the Red Epic's fan is as bad as the jet engine on the Red One. (And thanks to Sean for giving me the biggest laugh of the day!)

--Marc W.

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I always forget about the monitor.

It's not always a fan in the monitor, but a dimming issue giving it a transformer-like hum.  Changing the brightness can help, provided they are not lighting from the on-board monitor (ugh).

Robert

I've always noticed that hum when shooting in a really tight space.

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It is most definitely coming from the fans under the body when I sniffed it with the mic.

I also considered that the fans may be dirty...now to convince camera dept...

It's not as cool as you might think with the giant heater on set so the lead actress won't complain (or walk off)

Also sniffed the drive and there is data noise going on.  It's an external hard drive after all.

Just don't ever think I heard this noise on any RED before.

Maybe we need to add more lights to our gear and give them a taste of their own medicine!

*MOST* of the Red shoot I have done were using the CF cards, so there would not be any drive noise. Maybe that's why you never heard it before? The last feature I did had two of the big drives and one was flash. they pretty much look the same, but one was silent. I think one model was dark grey and one was black?

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  • 2 weeks later...

I just wrapped a Red short a few days ago, and definitely had a problem with the camera making noise, even on silent.  It was absolutely fan noise, from the body of the camera, and not drive noise or anything else.  I've shot with Red plenty of times in the past, although it was nearly always the same specific one, and I've never had an issue before.

I complained to the 1AC and the DP/operator, they double- and triple-checked that it was on "silent" setting.  Their ultimate response was, "maybe you need a better microphone."  I guess Schoeps mics aren't good enough for those holy Reds.

Anyway, I later asked a good friend of mine who's been a Red owner since the beginning, and he told me, some of them make noise on silent, and some don't.  As to which are which, I guess the only way to find out is to wait til you start rolling...

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Anyway, I later asked a good friend of mine who's been a Red owner since the beginning, and he told me, some of them make noise on silent, and some don't.  As to which are which, I guess the only way to find out is to wait til you start rolling...

He lied. They all make noise, even on the quietest mode. Some, when the fans are dusty, make even more. Of course, it only takes a small & quiet indoors location, with soft dialogue, for it to actually become audible. Hence why the majority of shooters (& particularly Red owners, who've spent $ on it) maintain the camera's quiet, and your ears are gone...

How would that guy know? Is he the one wearing headphones? :)

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I don't know.  I've shot with that guy's red many, many times, including in some pretty close locations, and I never had an issue with it making noise.  On the other hand, the noise from the camera on last week's short was so horrendously, painfully obvious that even the actress heard it and pointed it out to the camera op, who seemed oblivious.

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Try pulling off the battery and see if it is even more silent. I'm sure the camera department would love that.

At some point they will change media or a battery. Try asking for quiet to see what it sounds like. Whenever I am on a RED shoot, they power down the camera for room tone and I swear it's not the same as when we are shooting..... though the only way to get that sound is for the RED to roll on room tone, and that's never been successful (unless camera is recording primary audio).

"Silent" is only "silent" till the camera gets too hot, correct? From what I remember (at least on older builds) the camera will then do what it has to to protect itself from overheating. I feel like I have come across flat paned monitors that do the same thing.

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In silent mode the camera is at FULL fan when it is not rolling, so it can maximize it's cooling. This can often bring attention to the camera, which is why many camera folks try to keep the camera in "quiet" mode.

I have never been denied room tone with the cameras rolling (perhaps it's because I don't ask for it all the time).  Everyone gets why the camera needs to roll, and if they don't, then they should be shamed into compliance!

Robert

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I've mixed 5 features shot on Red so kinda consider myself a Red "veteran", however I did come across something new on my last shoot. It was a Red owned by an individual rather than a hire place, but he was hiring it out to the production. Apparently this guy had actually gone in for heavy DIY and changed the original fan for a computer fan, or something like that... No doubt this would void any sort of warranty, but the camera guys mentionned the owner was close to the Red UK people, so maybe he did it with them, who knows... Anyhow, the result (in silent mode, of course) was a dramatic sounding fan when not rolling. As in, not necessarily louder than a normal Red fan on silent mode while not rolling, but the "tone" of the fan sound was different, sort of sounded like the fans were really clogged with dust (visually they weren't. And I've heard dusty Reds before, while they sound different to a clean fan Red, this was definitely not it), and also the "dramatic" apect wasn't constant at all, it just came in and out randomly. Quite distracting on set of course, even more so than a normal Red fan on silent mode. However, while rolling, I have to admit I did not encounter a single camera noise problem on this shoot, and I was quite surprised, tbh. One scene in particular was a soft dialogue intimate scene in a rather small bedroom (covered in only a two-shot, loose MCU as far as I remember), and it sounded great.

In auto mode, that camera didn't sound any different to other Reds. I kinda have a feeling the owner didn't intend for it to be switched to Silent mode, but didn't get a chance to meet him or chat with him.

Regarding atmos (room tone), I always ask for the camera to be rolling (when shooting Red) for small-ish indoors locations, and generally get it. Some ACs are initially surprised I don't ask for it to be simply switched off, but they undesrtand when told that if I hear a bit of camera background in the sync takes, it becomes part of the sound of the location, just like HMI ballasts or so.

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