José Posted April 21, 2012 Report Share Posted April 21, 2012 I have read the good and the bad regarding the 788T and Nomad. But how 'bout the less popular recorders. In particular: The Nagra 6 and Tascam HS-P82. How have they been performing for their owner/operators? How reliable has the mirroring function been on the HS-P82? And any freeze cases for any of these two recorders? Etc! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Visser Posted April 21, 2012 Report Share Posted April 21, 2012 Nagra VI has been for the most part rock solid. I had an issue with a defective Samsung HDD that originally shipped with the unit. Nagra replaced free of charge very quickly once it was reported to them. There is another weakness, that the analog outputs seem to like to blow their TI DRV135 chips (unbalanced to balanced line driver). It is sort of a pain as the SMD devices are not easy to replace. I'm thinking of having mine replaced with a socketed adapter, as it seems to be a reoccurring issue with me, and would allow field replacement of the driver. Based on my experience, I'd recommend putting an isolation transformer in-between the unit and camera, like a Jensen. Other than those two issues, it has been so very dependable. Obviously the unit is a lot less flexible than pretty much any other recorder / mixer out there, and the thought of replacing it with something else pops into my mind quite frequently. There are features and mechanical luxuries that I would miss, if I did migrate, though, and the things that the Nagra does very well keeps me in the fold. There is supposed to be a new firmware version coming out sometime in the future. I've been nagging them to add a few things and the music remotesters, who probably use this more than the production people, also have some updates that they wish to see incorporated. I'm starting a season of reality TV type shooting in a month, and have had to think my workflow very carefully and figure out if I needed to get a 788t or Nomad to do the job. After considerable planning, I feel that I can proceed with the Nagra - although it requires some hardware additions that the Nagra simply can't handle itself though menu settings. When I first purchased the unit, it was with the assumption that the MIDI control features would be enabled through the additional release of some sort of Nagra branded accessory (like a CL-9 or CL-9) or via 3rd party generic HUI protocol. This was never realized and the message from Nagra has been that it is not a very highly requested feature, so has been put on the back burner or completely abandoned. My message to them is that their unit simply is not considered in the first place, because of this lack of capability and if they added an additional controller, that the unit would be more attractive to those in the market for a 788t/Nomad class device. Is it a good value? In terms of absolute features and price point, in a word, no. The things that make the unit superior for me, are mostly qualitative things that are variable from person to person. Some quantitative features that are nice... runs cool and performs well in high heat / humidity environments, has a massive battery capability that can run for a couple of light-medium production days or a full day powering a modest accessory load (14.8Ah supply), boots up and goes to record in mere seconds, and monitoring selection is 100% selectable via good old fashioned tactile toggle switches. *** regarding the output driver issue... in some part, I'm sure the issue is caused by a downstream camera through some combination of phantom power or the plugging / unplugging of a breakaway cable and the reactive surge / spike sent upline - so in some respects not caused by a design issue internal to the Nagra, but on the other hand, this is the world we live in and a product should be designed to withstand the hardships expected of a production tool, so is a hit against the Nagra.*** Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
José Posted April 21, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 21, 2012 The engineer to the Nagra 6 gave me an overview presentation at his booth at NAB. I do have to say that the menu interface is very slick and very straight forward. That is pretty cool also that you have the option to either work with their proprietary battery or through the DC 4 pin XLR input for another power source like an NP1. But the driver output issue to the Nagra 6 I am sure is a pain. My Alphamix mixer does feature isolated transformers and it's been very stellar for years sending audio to camera When a DVR135a chip blows inside your unit, how much to replace it? And do you solder and replace it yourself? That problem sounds like it sucks. And what kind of socketed adapter did you have in mind to remedy the recorder's driver output issues? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Visser Posted April 21, 2012 Report Share Posted April 21, 2012 The replacement of the TI chips in the past has always been free, Nagra service at its best. The only thing that is a bother is the cost and time of shipping from Hawaii to Tennessee, a side effect of living in the middle of the Pacific Ocean. Keep in mind your hearing the opinion of 1 person having used 1 Nagra machine, so my experience may or may not be indicative of what to expect out of another machine. It is quite possible here in Hawaii I have been working with 1 particular camera that has a defective audio board (RED perhaps) that keeps blowing my unit, as I tend to work with the same cameras over and over again. There are so few Nagra users, that it is hard to a get a decent sampling of any issues that people have had and whether or not they correlate with the issues of others. I fee that the industrial design and ergonomics, even the software / firmware menu'ing system is the best of the best and every facet of the machine is top notch. They (Nagra) do not subscribe to the design aesthetic that would have infinite options via touch screens and cluttered GUI - both a blessing for the most part, and to a lesser extent, a curse, but it is really only a few features away from what I would consider perfection and really something I would be happy to use for the next 50 years assuming that WAV files did not become obsolete in the near future. I forget the name of the company, but it is an obscure part that is designed for prototyping and designers, and basically provides a socket that solder onto the PCB as a replacement to the SMD. The advantage is that you can remove and replace the SOIC SMD device in a matter of seconds, and would even allow one to experiment with different chips, as both Analog Devices and THAT Corporation have pin compatible drop in replacements for the DRV135. You can of course see the specs of the chip on the TI website and if you look at the EMP manual, they show a picture of the PCB that shows the chip adjacent to some jumper pins. I do have to say that the Tascam HS-P82 does not get the respect that it deserves sometimes. For the price and performance, it is a very compelling piece. If for example, one had an all Zaxcom system, you could use the AES inputs on the HS-P82 and SRC to input all digital sources to the unit, perhaps defeating one of the criticisms that people have for the unit, being the quality of its analog circuitry. The fact that they have a slider panel control surface shows Tascam's dedication to our specific market. I do like the fact that it has a large record button that lights up red. I'm not so enamored by the touchscreen, but no device is perfect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
José Posted April 21, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 21, 2012 I am at the THAT corporation website and it is very cool that they sell DEMO boards to test their products. http://www.thatcorp....on_Boards.shtml They mentioned that their 1606 line drivers are purposely designed to replace your TI DRV135 chips. Sorry, but now this has got my head wandering about other electronic possibilities. I am wondering if they sell any balanced line drivers that could be implementable to my Sennheiser G2 receiver output (which is unbalanced). In regards to the HS-P82 I was very impressed, but only on the showfloor. The preamps sounded very clean. And they took into account their mistake of only designing one pair of Line Outs for the HS-P82. They now offer two L-R line outputs with a return via its HS-P82 controller (model: RC-F82). The price point for unit and controller is $3500 + $1200. How sweet is that? In terms of bag work with the HS-P82, I was thinking if I did invest in the unit, I would implement and connect it to something like this splitter feed called the Peter Engh Splitmon 3. http://www.peterengh...f/splitmon3.pdf The splitter would take care of distributing signals for HOPs and IFBs. But still! I am trying to learn about the HS-P82's field performance. Does the timecode remain accurate during shutoff periods? Any freezing cases with this unit? Any mirroring or CF card incompability issues with this recorder? How many hours can it go on a Lithium NP1 battery? etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christian Spaeth Posted April 21, 2012 Report Share Posted April 21, 2012 I feel like the HS P 82 is an underrated machine, just because Tascam isn't as widely spread in the production sound world today as SD or Zaxcom. For the money it costs it reads like a great value. It has a touch screen like the Deva! and there is a cheap linear fader board for it. Unfortunately I have never read of any person using it in their everyday work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Waelder Posted April 21, 2012 Report Share Posted April 21, 2012 I did a review of the Nagra VI when it first came out and then followed up with some updates about six months after. You can find the review here: http://www.productionrecording.com/ Scan down the page for links to the various articles. The are: Nagra VI First Look Nagra VI, VI Months Later and RF "Spray" from the Nagra VI I made the first review in September 2008 and the follow-ups six months and a bit more after. So, some of the impressions and conclusions reflect the situation at the time and one should allow for changes in a rapidly developing technology. Also, I have no actual production experience with the machine; I made test recordings but didn't actually take it out on an assignment. Still, it's a close and careful examination of the recorder. David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted April 21, 2012 Report Share Posted April 21, 2012 There was a TASCAM set up, for the second consecutive year at NAB, in the Audio Technica booth, with Fred Ginsburg, PhD giving demos. This unit has been upgraded (firmware) by TEAC and is proving to be a robust, reliable comprehensive alternative at an appealing price point for a product with its capabilities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spencer Moore Posted April 21, 2012 Report Share Posted April 21, 2012 I've been using the Tascam for a month now, and I love it. when you use it for bag work it almost feels like you're working with a DAW instead of a field recorder, but when I have it on cart I front it with a panel mixer that has direct outputs (modified PSC M6 Retro). The pre amps are crystal clear with loads of headroom, and the touch screen makes naming and organization a breeze. In terms of build quality the machine has a very substantial metal chassis. I've been using Portabrace's new Flex-4 bag with it since its the same size as the purpose built bag for it and features more flexibility in terms of configuration. Also I love the glowing Rec button! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
José Posted April 21, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 21, 2012 Yeah, Senator! I too received a great presentation from another one of their engineers that worked full time on the unit. Should power failure occur with the unit, he claimed it was capable of saving active recording files with no more than 10 seconds of audio loss. And when connected to the controller, the trim control can be moved from the pots from the recorder over to the ones on the controller and viceversa. Doesn't matter if both cards are different from one another in brand, type and size, mirroring will work. Interesting! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spencer Moore Posted April 21, 2012 Report Share Posted April 21, 2012 I've had the NP (externally) run out on the P82 while working on a doc, and it switches too the internal battery (AA NP sled), but it seems to be a little dicey interms of the record quality at that moment. I got some pops and noise. However I'd generally avoid that happening, and thats a much better outcome then the machine powering off unannounced and ruining the file like my old Fostex FR-2TC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OmahaAudio Posted April 21, 2012 Report Share Posted April 21, 2012 I've been using the Tascam for a month now, and I love it. when you use it for bag work it almost feels like you're working with a DAW instead of a field recorder Are you using it as-is or do you have any sort of mixer (SD552?) in front of it? Is it heavy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chase Yeremian Posted April 21, 2012 Report Share Posted April 21, 2012 Are you using it as-is or do you have any sort of mixer (SD552?) in front of it? Is it heavy? I beleive he said he is using a modified PSC M6. They also make a digital fader panel (RC-F82, specifically for the HS-P82 (like Mix 8, CL 9) at like $1,300 that actually looks very robust. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
André Boisvert Posted April 22, 2012 Report Share Posted April 22, 2012 8lbs/3.65kg is a lot of weight to carry in a bag. That's more than twice that of a 788 or Nomad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spencer Moore Posted April 22, 2012 Report Share Posted April 22, 2012 I beleive he said he is using a modified PSC M6. They also make a digital fader panel (RC-F82, specifically for the HS-P82 (like Mix 8, CL 9) at like $1,300 that actually looks very robust. In the bag I use it by itself, and on a cart I front it with the M6. 8lbs/3.65kg is a lot of weight to carry in a bag. That's more than twice that of a 788 or Nomad. 8 lbs in a bag isn't crazy (have you seen peoples reality bags!), yes its on the upper end of the scale but thats about what a Cantar or Deva weights. Plus I only try to carry 2 wireless with me if I can help it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chase Yeremian Posted April 22, 2012 Report Share Posted April 22, 2012 In the bag I use it by itself, and on a cart I front it with the M6. 8 lbs in a bag isn't crazy (have you seen peoples reality bags!), yes its on the upper end of the scale but thats about what a Cantar or Deva weights. Plus I only try to carry 2 wireless with me if I can help it. Haha, yeah. Once you see those Deva/Venue bags it's time to redefine what exactly a "heavy" bag is! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spencer Moore Posted April 22, 2012 Report Share Posted April 22, 2012 Haha, yeah. Once you see those Deva/Venue bags it's time to redefine what exactly a "heavy" bag is! Chase I take my cues from Ron Swanson "Be a man." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chase Yeremian Posted April 22, 2012 Report Share Posted April 22, 2012 Chase I take my cues from Ron Swanson "Be a man." Can't argue with Ron Swanson, that's for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karri Posted April 23, 2012 Report Share Posted April 23, 2012 The Tascam was looking pretty good but atm I do mostly bag work so the weight puts me off. Also, battery life isn't that hot it seems. Also, very lmportant in Finland , operating temperature promised only to 0 deg Celsius. Nomad seems to go down to -23 C. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Mc Posted April 23, 2012 Report Share Posted April 23, 2012 On the topic of alternative recorders, what about the Sonosax sx62r?? Anyone using one of these? They look like great machines. Unbelievably expensive compared to other options, but with lots of knobs & buttons which is always a big plus for me... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Visser Posted April 23, 2012 Report Share Posted April 23, 2012 The Sonosax SX62R looks to be my 2nd most favorite unit out of everything available. I think it is not that flexible for routing, though, the only downside of being an analog mixer. You couldn't input AES sources as one of the mix sources, for example. All in all I don't think that that is really a valid criticism or at least a very slight critique of a feature given that there are workarounds for that. In fact, anything negative I have to say about it is pretty minor.. PFL activation is a little funky, I think I'd prefer a dedicated momentary toggle switch or push button instead of the push-lock 2nd function of the filter knob. Variable filters are a big bonus. Pan pots are ok, I guess, but I think I'd rather have pan switches instead, just faster and I never really use anything except hard left / right with the very occasional center for convenience, but could just as well do without center panning. I'm not a big fan of horizontal meters, but most people are... probably something I could adapt to quickly. Accessory port and control options are intriguing, for future development of controllers. PL features are great for a unit of this size. It is very smartly laid out for sure. I'm sure the sound quality is second to none. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AudioMTL Posted April 24, 2012 Report Share Posted April 24, 2012 I've heard the Tascam drifts badly and should be avoided if TC sync is important . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Wielage Posted April 24, 2012 Report Share Posted April 24, 2012 I think we would've heard about this already if there was timecode drift on the Tascam. I would check with Fred Ginsberg, since he seems to be the only person I know of who has some experience with the machine. He can be reached through his website: http://www.FilmTVsound.com Anytime I've ever run into a timecode drift problem, it's always been a people problem -- either with the crew or with the post house. As careful and paranoid as I am with timecode, I was bitten once when I ran a 23.98 reference into a playback machine during post, and still encountered drift. Only after hours of investigation did an engineer look into the rack behind the patch panel, and we found out that the reference signal had never been wired in! Patching a "reference to nowhere" does not work. I had to apologize to the client and the mixer -- and the good news is, we also found five other rooms in our facility that were similarly miswired. Live and learn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AudioMTL Posted April 24, 2012 Report Share Posted April 24, 2012 Well, I haven't tested it myself but was advised against it by a reputable dealer, who heard complaints and had returns. I personally have been interested in it but just this word of mouth "rumor" is enough to steer me away. I'd love to demo one but no rentals where I am for them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Wielage Posted April 24, 2012 Report Share Posted April 24, 2012 I gotta admit, I'd be reluctant to buy anything in this price range that I haven't rented or tried out first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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