Henchman Posted August 21, 2012 Report Share Posted August 21, 2012 I have to say in his defense, he's not trolling Craigslist trying to get people to work on his stuff for almost free, for a credit. THAT'S what I find insulting. The producers looking for free or almost free labour, without wanting to share any possible backend. Or people seriously under budgeting. I just turned down a gig, because the entire audio post budget, for an hour and a half MOW, that was to include SFX edit, Foley, M+E, ADR and mix, is $8500 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluemalice Posted August 21, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 21, 2012 Oh-for-goodness-sakes, you certainly have stepped on a hornets' nest, Blue, and Mr. Sharman has outlined its shape and in part why you and your questions have been greeted less than amicably. We really are an awesome group of very knowledgeable and helpful individuals, though you might not guess it from this thread. It's just this hornets' nest thing and a bit of bad timing relative to the general attitude of a lot of pro mixers in the U.S. (world?) today. Our nest's being repeatedly stepped upon by a bunch of people who sound very much like you. They've read some books, asked some questions here, "mixed" a few student/low-budget films, land on the scene with some gear, undercut rates, devalue and get the jobs, and put a lof of people who've got tens of thousands worth of gear and decades doing the job out of work. There's an equally fresh and inexperienced crop of wannabe producers and directors out there really screwing up the process (and the quality of our work product and environment) for every crew everywhere. They find nothing wrong with the sound these people get 'em 'cause they don't know any better either. And on...and on... You stepped in that. Sorry. There's no way what you do for your cousin (?) will take work away from any of us, but...lots of us are pretty worked up at they way our business is going, and you and the project you outline are part of that slippery slope to crap. A few people on your project will go on to do other jobs, thinking they have LEARNED how things are supposed to be done. These will be dangerous people. Yes. They will. You confirmed exactly what I said in one of my previous posts about the attitude I was getting from people. I stated already that a lot of people are mad because upstarts come in that want to take their business. I stated many times that was not me and never would be and also, I never asked anyone to help me with anything but the what they thought about the combination of equipment and what cabling I might need to get started. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluemalice Posted August 21, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 21, 2012 I have to say in his defense, he's not trolling Craigslist trying to get people to work on his stuff for almost free, for a credit. THAT'S what I find insulting. The producers looking for free or almost free labour, without wanting to share any possible backend. Or people seriously under budgeting. I just turned down a gig, because the entire audio post budget, for an hour and a half MOW, that was to include SFX edit, Foley, M+E, ADR and mix, is $8500 We asked specifically for volunteers. We also wrote up contracts for EVERY volunteer that state if any money EVER comes from anything they have a part in, they will get paid but we don't intend to actually receive a dime on this one. We also feed everyone out of our pocket on every shoot etc... It's just a bunch of nice people having a good time and trying to make something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluemalice Posted August 21, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 21, 2012 True. So? Point being, people didn't like the fact that I was brand spanking new to this so they responded inappropriately when they should've kept their fingers still if they didn't have anything to add that was constructive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyB Posted August 21, 2012 Report Share Posted August 21, 2012 BM, I've learned a lot on this forum by searching and reading. I may have asked some "dumb" questions on occasion, but I tried to never do it with an attitude. I also tried to learn as much about my gear choices by researching first. I learned about the things I wasn't familiar with before I asked any questions. Most times, I found the answer before I had to ask anyone here. Maybe some people here rubbed you the wrong way from the get go, but if you hang around here and read past posts, you might understand why they went that way. You will definitely learn a lot as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyB Posted August 21, 2012 Report Share Posted August 21, 2012 Also, yeah, the "dot" system obviously is not working! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RPSharman Posted August 21, 2012 Report Share Posted August 21, 2012 Point being, people didn't like the fact that I was brand spanking new to this so they responded inappropriately when they should've kept their fingers still if they didn't have anything to add that was constructive. It's not that you're new, it that's you didn't present yourself in a manner that invited assistance. Tons of "noobs" get tons of free advice here, with little or no trouble. Perhaps you, as the new member, should ask yourself why this group of normally pleasant and helpful professionals responded the way we did to your inquiry. Robert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyB Posted August 21, 2012 Report Share Posted August 21, 2012 It's not that you're new, it that's you didn't present yourself in a manner that invited assistance. Tons of "noobs" get tons of free advice here, with little or no trouble. Perhaps you, as the new member, should ask yourself why this group of normally pleasant and helpful professionals responded the way we did to your inquiry. Robert Cross reference this with my last post above (not the one about "dots"...the one before that) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshua Anderson Posted August 21, 2012 Report Share Posted August 21, 2012 If I hadn't given my background and just came in here and said something like, "Hi. I'm new here. I'm buying this stuff. What do you think of said products and do you have any advice on said items?" The answer would have been "depends on what you want to do with that gear. What sort of situations do you find yourself in?" To answer that, you need to know what sort of info we need and use to suss out problems. You'd also need to know what you expect out of gear under optimum circumstances. To answer all if that you either need experience or someone experienced with you on set, holding your hand through different situations. The other choice is to randomly purchase equipment and try to find out what you like (no one here can help you find what you like). That all seems to be what the first response to your question addressed. So, yes, you could have phrased your question differently, but I don't think you'd find the answer you're looking for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Hirtenstein Posted August 21, 2012 Report Share Posted August 21, 2012 Perhaps you, as the new member, should ask yourself why this group of normally pleasant and helpful professionals responded the way we did to your inquiry. Robert +1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluemalice Posted August 21, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 21, 2012 I think it's because a few pms'ing bad eggs came into the thread from the get go and set the standard for what your forum appears to be about to a newcomer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluemalice Posted August 21, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 21, 2012 Hey. I got what I needed in the end and I've already been turned on to a better forum by the Trew Audio sales guy. So long and thanks for all the fish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyB Posted August 21, 2012 Report Share Posted August 21, 2012 Hey. I got what I needed in the end and I've already been turned on to a better forum by the Trew Audio sales guy. So long and thanks for all the fish. Well, that about sums it up. After all that, he got what he needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshua Anderson Posted August 21, 2012 Report Share Posted August 21, 2012 I've already been turned on to a better forum by the Trew Audio sales guy. RAMPS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Hirtenstein Posted August 22, 2012 Report Share Posted August 22, 2012 don't let the door hit yer ass on the way out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyB Posted August 22, 2012 Report Share Posted August 22, 2012 Aw, he'll be back...he loves us! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexander Burstein Posted August 22, 2012 Report Share Posted August 22, 2012 Point being, people didn't like the fact that I was brand spanking new to this so they responded inappropriately when they should've kept their fingers still if they didn't have anything to add that was constructive. I can assure you it's not because you're new. Sometimes you get what you give, and you gave some negativity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Wexler Posted August 22, 2012 Report Share Posted August 22, 2012 Aw, he'll be back...he loves us! Actually, he won't be back... I know I got into this a little late but it looks like I got here just in time to enjoy the not a moment too soon departure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afewmoreyears Posted August 22, 2012 Report Share Posted August 22, 2012 We asked specifically for volunteers. We also wrote up contracts for EVERY volunteer that state if any money EVER comes from anything they have a part in, they will get paid but we don't intend to actually receive a dime on this one. We also feed everyone out of our pocket on every shoot etc... It's just a bunch of nice people having a good time and trying to make something. I have a few rolls of that qued up on the dispenser next to my toilet..... BM, it's not the gear, it's how to use it..... How can anyone be more clear...... With a radio shack handheld mic and a cassette deck, many here can obtain better sound than your new package with you operating it.... Can that change, yes, but not overnight... You did not even have the common sense to unplug the Fridge, turn off the washing machine and ridding yourself of a AC noise as you called it....... You mentioned the dreaded 4 walls.... WHAT.... Are you serious.... You hung yourself there... Do you really need schooling and instruction for that? We record little kids with a freeway overpass overhead and traffic 20' on the left.... Do you think we worry about walls in a room....really... Your projects seem to be such that Junior high school kids are now shooting on 7Ds and posting up on their Laptops..... OK, that's cool, but it's like you like flying and quickly want to just jump in and fly a jet... as has been mentioned, your better off simply paying someone to take you for a ride rather than trying to fly one yourself WITH ALL OF US LIVING IN HOMES DOWN BELOW.... It's not a bicycle, it's a sound package.... and you are actually doing all your little friends a diservice by continuing on this little path... If they are your friends, you might want to think about that.... If you want to blow wads of money, go ahead, good for the nice folks that sell it to you... I have no problem with that... It's your continued attitude, it's really abusive... you came to our camp and bashed members for trying to make a point you did not wish to hear through all your rants... we all keep saying the same thing.... either patiently study and learn or hang on for the bumpy ride... you choose the ride, we were all happy to provide it for you.... Not with name calling, but with repeated efforts to help you see the light...... People gave you great advice, multiple times..... over and over.... If you want to simply spend thousands on your little obsession for the month, please do so, but don't come trolling (proper use of the word...think fishing on this one) here expecting people to give up the goat to short cut you to the promised land... WE NEED TO SEE MORE PATIENCE AND EFFORT before we simply give it all up for you and your home movies... Jan was correct there.... Best of luck and I hope your home movies with CL talent win you guys an Oscar... untill then, have some humility.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluemalice Posted August 22, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 22, 2012 I have a few rolls of that qued up on the dispenser next to my toilet..... - Again assuming that since maybe in your experience those contracts are worthless it must be so in our scenario as well. It's bad to assume. BM, it's not the gear, it's how to use it..... How can anyone be more clear...... With a radio shack handheld mic and a cassette deck, many here can obtain better sound than your new package with you operating it.... Can that change, yes, but not overnight... - Noted. Noted. Noted. This was said 500 times in this thread. I acknowledged it. I never said anything contrary to that. I called myself a noob several times and said this whole thing is a learning experience. You did not even have the common sense to unplug the Fridge, turn off the washing machine and ridding yourself of a AC noise as you called it....... You mentioned the dreaded 4 walls.... WHAT.... Are you serious.... You hung yourself there... Do you really need schooling and instruction for that? We record little kids with a freeway overpass overhead and traffic 20' on the left.... Do you think we worry about walls in a room....really... - Again, how can you POSSIBLY get the right perception of me or my intentions when you fail to actually read the posts you THINK you are responding to? I stated TWICE in this thread that all of that stuff with the fridge, washing machine, AC etc was happening BEFORE I EVER JOINED THE PROJECT. When I came on set the FIRST time, we DID turn all of that stuff off and blanketed everything etc... It worked out REALLY WELL and our audio was good for the first time. The dreaded 4-walls was referring to them trying to use a shotgun mic in basically a hard walled, tiled floor cubicle and wondering why their audio sounded so "echoey". You really should focus on reading before you comment. Your projects seem to be such that Junior high school kids are now shooting on 7Ds and posting up on their Laptops..... OK, that's cool, but it's like you like flying and quickly want to just jump in and fly a jet... as has been mentioned, your better off simply paying someone to take you for a ride rather than trying to fly one yourself WITH ALL OF US LIVING IN HOMES DOWN BELOW.... It's not a bicycle, it's a sound package.... and you are actually doing all your little friends a diservice by continuing on this little path... If they are your friends, you might want to think about that.... If you want to blow wads of money, go ahead, good for the nice folks that sell it to you... I have no problem with that... It's your continued attitude, it's really abusive... you came to our camp and bashed members for trying to make a point you did not wish to hear through all your rants... we all keep saying the same thing.... either patiently study and learn or hang on for the bumpy ride... you choose the ride, we were all happy to provide it for you.... Not with name calling, but with repeated efforts to help you see the light...... People gave you great advice, multiple times..... over and over.... If you want to simply spend thousands on your little obsession for the month, please do so, but don't come trolling (proper use of the word...think fishing on this one) here expecting people to give up the goat to short cut you to the promised land... WE NEED TO SEE MORE PATIENCE AND EFFORT before we simply give it all up for you and your home movies... Jan was correct there.... Best of luck and I hope your home movies with CL talent win you guys an Oscar... untill then, have some humility.. And to respond to the rest of your post... you are obviously SO biased that when you read through this thread, you didn't even see how abusive the people on this forum are in their responses. For your information, the main reason I stayed here is because I received 4 private messages from people giving me good advice and basically apologizing for how hostile this forum can be for people. One guy even said he's been on this forum since 2008 and has posted only a few times because of how hostile he sees the community being towards people that are not at the extreme top-end of knowledge and experience. Get over yourselves, really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyB Posted August 22, 2012 Report Share Posted August 22, 2012 Told you, JW! Told you, as well, BM. These are good people here, BM. FYI, I am nowhere near the "extreme top-end", and I don't get any grief asking occasional questions that are coherent and (hopefully) well informed. Asking something vague and general such as "is this gear good?" is pretty much flagging yourself for a rough ride, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atheisticmystic Posted August 22, 2012 Report Share Posted August 22, 2012 Get over yourselves, really. Is this guy ever going to leave? He's interminable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old school Posted August 22, 2012 Report Share Posted August 22, 2012 "Get over yourselves, really. ".... bluemalice Always good advice. Follow it. Until you have achieved something in the world of sound recording for picture, listen and learn, and when you know something speak or post. Until then, work on your new craft and have the fun you so seek with your cousin and his buddy. Quit wasting your energy here or other sites. Show us and the world your work when you have a finished project. I bet most would love to view and hear it. Good luck. CrewC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluemalice Posted August 22, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 22, 2012 Told you, JW! Told you, as well, BM. These are good people here, BM. FYI, I am nowhere near the "extreme top-end", and I don't get any grief asking occasional questions that are coherent and (hopefully) well informed. Asking something vague and general such as "is this gear good?" is pretty much flagging yourself for a rough ride, though. Like I said. There are a lot of people here that would like to post but are also intimidated by the way this forum treats people. That should tell you something. I came back cause I got a bunch of private messages and saw that you guys were still going on about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluemalice Posted August 22, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 22, 2012 "Get over yourselves, really. ".... bluemalice Always good advice. Follow it. Until you have achieved something in the world of sound recording for picture, listen and learn, and when you know something speak or post. Until then, work on your new craft and have the fun you so seek with your cousin and his buddy. Quit wasting your energy here or other sites. Show us and the world your work when you have a finished project. I bet most would love to view and hear it. Good luck. CrewC How exactly would you suggest that I get over myself? From the very beginning I explained how noobish I was... I'm guessing maybe you're another person who didn't actually READ the thread, just jumped on a bandwagon. Also, I will definitely return and show you guys what we made. I fully expect the sound to be sub-par to this forum's members. I'm saying this now because people can't seem to get it through their heads that I realize I know nothing about sound recording for film or television stuff... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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