Schoeps CMiT5u Vs. Sanken CS-3e

[FirdEist88]

Hello everyone ! So here's a predicament I'm in. I wanna buy a mic, but I'm caught between the CMiT5u and the CS-3e. This will be the first mic I'm buying for location sound. so I'm not sure which to get. Any advice?

[RPSharman]

Nice that you have such a budget for your first mic. But since it is your first, and you are unfamiliar with how they sound (meaning you haven't boomed with them either), you might want to consider something less expensive, like a used 416, to get started.

But if you are fixated on one of these two, I far prefer the CMIT.

[Zack]

I own both.... love em both, but CMIT is the shizzzzzz.  Off axis is very steep with the CS3 compared to the CMIT.  CS3 is fantastic and I use it when more on the move outdoors, around very noisy environments, or am too afraid of getting the CMIT dirty

[FirdEist88]

I've boomed with the 416 a lot before this. It's a good mic to start with I agree. Been renting and borrowing it for my past shoots. But like  you said, I'm kinda fixated with these two. I've heard their samples from a few websites and I have to say, hands down, the CMiT is really good ! But I also heard that it doesn't perform well in moist conditions (don't know true or not). And the CS3e has good noise rejection and that's good for where I'm shooting (Malaysia, very noisy place ) although the audio quality of the sanken is okay, it's definitely not as good as the schoeps. but still handy. Just wondering which one of these two is more practical for me to get. Thanks for the advice RPSharman.

 

anyone else can share their opinion/experience?

[FirdEist88]

Zack, you have both? awesome !! alright. point taken. thanks

[Constantin]

Rent or borrow both, compare, decide. A lot about choosing a mic is like choosing an instrument: it's down to your own personal taste.

[FirdEist88]

that's the thing.. no one in my country has it for rent and no one I know owns any one of them.. actually, very few knows about it here. which is quite sad.. but thanks for the advice Constantin.

[Constantin]

In that case, why don't you inquire about it, here?

When I bought my boom mic (CMIT, by the way) I asked the shop to send me a different types so I could try them out at least for a day or two. Maybe a shop will do that for, too? If the shop is out of the country, too, you may have to pay for both of them first, though, but should be able to return one of them, if they'll agree.

[Diego Sanchez]

Hi

I also own both this mics and they are my two main players. 

The CMIT 5u is amazing, lovely round sound, great rejection and the pull is amazing, specially if you hit the high frequency emphasis. Is shorter than a 416 and others and very light. Besides the blue finish is very sexy.

The CS-3e is great, not as much pull as the CMIT but good enough. IMHO the sound is more high heavy, but is more forgiving when off axis (i.e. a 2 people dialogue).

As for the issue with moisture, i did use the CMIT 5U entirely for 2 weeks on a doco in Singapore (similar weather to yours) and never had a problem with it.

If you can only get one, i would go with the Schoeps.

But, just an idea, if you are buying them new, for the price of the CMIT 5U you could buy the CS-3e and the CS-1e. Then you would have an amazing pair of matching sound, for indoor and outdoor. Maybe something to consider?

[Dan Ostroff]

One consideration re: Schoeps is repair time. From the United States can expect a trip back to Germany for repair will have you without the mic for 2-3 months. Not sure what the repair time is from other countries but I'm assuming it is not a quick trip as well.

[sergiofucchi]

I see that every time someone repeats the same comparisons between the same microphones ......

[sergiofucchi]

Rather than choose the Schoeps, considering that I have already a CS3-a and a Neumann KMR 82 (plus three MKH-416 and two 816), I would choose a SuperCMIT 2 U. It is an active microphone to rejection of noise and it is currently the most directional microphone..

[André Boisvert]

One consideration re: Schoeps is repair time. From the United States can expect a trip back to Germany for repair will have you without the mic for 2-3 months. Not sure what the repair time is from other countries but I'm assuming it is not a quick trip as well.

 

I know of one case of a broken Schoeps sitting with the Canadian distributor for a good month before being shipped out. So when I had an issue with my 41 several years ago, I got in touch with Schoeps and sent it in direct. It was only after I had shipped it (early August) that I found out they shut down for the month for vacation. Doh! I was without it for 7-8 weeks, but the actual turnaound, had I shipped it later or early, was 3 - 4 weeks in my case.

[Mark Orusa]

But I also heard that it doesn't perform well in moist conditions (don't know true or not).

The CMIT if particularly sensitive to moisture build up on the microphone element. This can be caused by humid environments or from condensation due to temperature changes. I have only ever experienced the latter, but it was with a CMC6/MK41. My CMIT has never motor-boated or gone out.

 

It's way over your budget, but the Super CMIT looks like a winner with it's DSP reduction of noise and digital output capability.

 

In my experience, the CS3-e has a much sharper off-axis rejection. You have to stay on top of someone or they will fall off quickly. The CMIT is more forgiving, but it also has an undesirable rear lobe that picks up noise from directly behind it. The lobe is audibly noticeable if you are listening for it and disclosed in the polar pattern diagrams. Oh, and directly on axis there is a slight bump around 7 kHz. The 416 has a very smooth response throughout it's coverage pattern, is impervious to condensation, and has no rear lobe.

 

My first choice is still the CMIT. If I were going on a yearlong, around the world sound recordist journey I'd take the 416.

 

Mark O.

[Boomboom]

I don't know if somebody here actually uses the Super CMIT 2U on a regular basis but am I right thinking it performs really well with constant, regular sounds in the background but not necessarily as well if it's sudden sounds ( like a honk or tires screeching ) ? On their demo files, I think it was basically rivers, crowds and reverberations the mic was dealing with... ?

[Mark Orusa]

Good point about the Super CMIT with intermittent noise. I would expect it to respond like many noise reduction plugins, a rise and fall of background noise with dynamic changes in direct sounds.

 

Mark O.

[greg sextro]

I often carry both a CMIT and a CS3e. Working outdoors in New York, the cs3e is great, I can't imagine ever using a CMIT for that purpose. 416 is a great choice for a first mic, that said, I very much dislike the off axis sound of it, and find it can rarely be used well indoors if the sound is somewhat reverberant. 816 can also be found on the cheap used, but using one in a bag mixer scenario is far from ideal (fully zeppelin-ed, it is a heavy and unwieldy sucker).

I would strongly consider the Sanken CS2. It fits right in between the CMIT and the CS3e in terms of pattern/sound/off axis rejection.

[Matt]

I recall the sound mixer on Les Miserables said he used the Super CMIT.  You can do a search on here for him.  Simon Hayes I believe.  As I recall, he said you have to be really accurate with your boom technique as being off-axis is very noticeable. 

 

-Matt

[johnpaul215]

What kind of work are you doing? 

I personally went with the CS3e (though I want to get a CMIT too) because I have been doing more work where I need to get good dialog in less than great environments (noisy places) and sometimes there is 2 or 3 camera coverage. If I was doing more scripted and controlled work (I wish), I would have gone for a CMIT. I don't think either mic is wrong, and they both sound excellent (though slightly different). I just went for the one that I though would produce a better result in the work I have been doing most. 

Even when I bring just my smallest Pelican case with extra equipment, the 416 is in there "just in case". 

[Mark Orusa]

I recall the sound mixer on Les Miserables said he used the Super CMIT.  You can do a search on here for him.  Simon Hayes I believe.  As I recall, he said you have to be really accurate with your boom technique as being off-axis is very noticeable. 

 

-Matt

This is very much the opposite of my experience. I found the CS3-e to be much "sharper", if you will. The CMIT sounds more forgiving to my ears, as far as pickup pattern and off-axis roll-off. It really has more to do with which frequencies roll off and by how many dbs. That's part of what makes Schoeps mics so great, they have excellent, smooth off-axis responses.

 

Like Johnpaul, I bought and keep a 416 in the pelican just in case.

 

Mark O.

[Matt]

Mark O.,

I may be incorrect as I was just recalling from another post, but I am also talking about the SUPER CMIT with the DSP noise reduction kicked in.  The regular CMIT is exactly as you describe it.

 

-Matt

[johnpaul215]

This is very much the opposite of my experience. I found the CS3-e to be much "sharper", if you will. The CMIT sounds more forgiving to my ears, as far as pickup pattern and off-axis roll-off. It really has more to do with which frequencies roll off and by how many dbs. That's part of what makes Schoeps mics so great, they have excellent, smooth off-axis responses.

 

Like Johnpaul, I bought and keep a 416 in the pelican just in case.

 

Mark O.

 

I have not had a ton of time with the CMIT, but I have used it in scripted and unscripted reality situations. My (very) limited experience left me thinking what Mark said. That's why I think it is great for scripted work where a boom op is moving between actors. The CS3e was useful in situations like an OTF interview with unmic'd people eating in a loud restaurant/bar, or on the street interviews. I was getting dialog from one person at a time and had an easier time getting better dialog in crappy situations. 

Say your subject goes into a loud bar and sits down and you want to get some dialog from the bartender as well as the people sitting next to them. I've done a lot of that with a 416 and MKH60, and I think the CS3e gets me more. Unfortunately those situations are all a little different, and you never get to really A/B/C mics under those unscripted conditions. 

[Boomboom]

Good point about the Super CMIT with intermittent noise. I would expect it to respond like many noise reduction plugins, a rise and fall of background noise with dynamic changes in direct sounds.

 

Mark O.

 

That's what I guess too. With how much subtelty the mic does its job. I'm sure with time we'll get more and more examples (recorded files) and they also already have done an update (if not more) for the mic so the future looks promising.

 

I recall the sound mixer on Les Miserables said he used the Super CMIT.  You can do a search on here for him.  Simon Hayes I believe.  As I recall, he said you have to be really accurate with your boom technique as being off-axis is very noticeable. 

 

-Matt

 

 

I cross-read the article about Les Misérables ; good idea Matt about asking the sound mixer...

 

And there's also that max SPL that went down 7dB from the CMIT 5U... well, 125dB is still good but I wonder how it behaves in a more ''extreme'' situation.

Fireworks, jackhammers, engine backfires etc comes to mind...

[Matt]

Here's a link to an article that talks about the Super CMIT's used on Les Miserables:

 

http://digital.copcomm.com/i/94072/40

 

-Matt

[Boomboom]

Thanks for the link Matt.

 

Funny typo error in the text: DPA lavs 4017 are probably the 4071... high SPL indeed for both of these mics.

The 4017 shotgun (''reference mic'' line, as DPA call'em) can handle 152dB ; yikes !!! Emory Murchison who uses one on a daily basis made me notice that...

 

EDIT sept.29th 2013: well, now on the DPA website, they are more precise: the micc unit with B preamp (4017B) will handle 138dB SPL (while mentionning the capsule itself can go up to 152) while the newer C preamp on the 4017 (4017C...) will bring you up to 146dB SPL.

Hmm... :-/