Tapio Posted March 21, 2013 Report Share Posted March 21, 2013 (edited) Some Most of you guys here propably have already done this many times but it was a first time for me today and I thought the solution was somewhat clever or inventive. I'm working on a documentary where the film crew is only me (as DoP) and the director. She wants to keep the crew as minimal as possible because of the sensitive subject of our film. Today we had a situation where the main character was totally naked - no clothes whatsoever. And since I'm working alone (well.. the director MIGHT have been able to boom.. but let's not get in there), I was forced to come up with a solution to record her dialog. I keep a Sanken CS3s as an onboard mic on my camera and use Lectro SRa + 2 pcs SMD with DPA 4071 capsules. The only possible place for the transmitter I could come up with was in her hair, the chignon (or whatever it's called).. so there my SMDB went. Then I placed the mic just above the line where the forehead ends and hair starts and hid the cable under her hair. It worked much better than I dared to hope! Actually I had no problems with the sound! I'm really sorry guys, but I could't take a photo of the setup.. And before you ask: no, it's not an adult film. The person in our documentary just needed to be without clothes for other reasons. I know. Sound mixer with a boom would have solved our problem much faster and easier but that wasn't an option today. Edited March 21, 2013 by Tapio Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexander Burstein Posted March 21, 2013 Report Share Posted March 21, 2013 Who is making the decisions? Is the director also the producer? Based on your last statement it sounds like you bring in other departments on necessary days. The thinking seems to be that no one else could have been professional enough to handle that scene, or the subject matter of the documentary. I hope you're wearing headphones while shooting! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tapio Posted March 21, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 21, 2013 Who is making the decisions? Is the director also the producer? Based on your last statement it sounds like you bring in other departments on necessary days. No, there is a producer. And an executive producer. And all the other people that fill up the end credits. We all discussed the matter in pre-production and decided we'd go with a two person crew unless absolutely necessary. While I'm a DoP on this particular project, I've done sound work as well. I'm also using my own camera and sound kit so I always know the condition of the equipment and if I need something, I'll go and buy it. We are shooting this one with PDW-700. Most of the days there are a maximum of three persons. I have two Lectro SRa's and four SMDB's (one spare). The fourth track is for my on-board CS3e. I'd LOVE to have a sound mixer with me every day at work. I'd also love to have a director who could double as a boom operator should the rare ocassion arise. Most of my jobs do include a sound mixer, 1st AC etc, but this isn't one of them. We have access to people, places and subjects that are very sensitive and in my country have not been filmed previously. It's often a very delicate situation when we film and sometimes even a two-person crew feels too big. When the film is completed, I'll post a trailer here. The thinking seems to be that no one else could have been professional enough to handle that scene, or the subject matter of the documentary. I hope you're wearing headphones while shooting! Thank you for underestimating my professionalism and quality of work. Yes, I'm wearing my trusty old Sennheiser 25's. I also wear them even when I'm working with a sound mixer and a full crew. (That's for two reasons. 1. To monitor the wireless hop and 2. to keep track of the story and dialog.) Please keep in mind that not all work in the "film industry" is fictional and / or scripted movies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted March 21, 2013 Report Share Posted March 21, 2013 " It worked much better than I dared to hope! " hiding lav mic's in the hair has been around for many years, works and sounds great, and is SOP on the stage. that said, what about a boom mic on a stand ?..? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OmahaAudio Posted March 21, 2013 Report Share Posted March 21, 2013 Depending on camera angles I'd say taping a transmitter to the woman's back and hiding a lav mic in her hair would be an option, but what do I know? Any chance of a boom mic on a fixed stand (overhead) to offer a third audio choice that might help add some audio? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Kittappa Posted March 21, 2013 Report Share Posted March 21, 2013 If you were shooting different size shots you could mic on the chest below the frame on the tighter shots using Rycote stickies, Topstick or surgical tape. +1 for boom on a CStand Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turningandearning Posted March 21, 2013 Report Share Posted March 21, 2013 Seems like you've got everything covered by yourself ! not sure exactly why you are on the forum ? If the subject matter is more sensitive does the crew drop to one person ? Perhaps the Producer/Director would have got more sensitive coverage being alone ? Anyway, just off to write about my camera skills on a camera guild forum ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexander Burstein Posted March 21, 2013 Report Share Posted March 21, 2013 No, there is a producer. And an executive producer. And all the other people that fill up the end credits. We all discussed the matter in pre-production and decided we'd go with a two person crew unless absolutely necessary. While I'm a DoP on this particular project, I've done sound work as well. Thank you for underestimating my professionalism and quality of work. Yes, I'm wearing my trusty old Sennheiser 25's. I also wear them even when I'm working with a sound mixer and a full crew. (That's for two reasons. 1. To monitor the wireless hop and 2. to keep track of the story and dialog.) Please keep in mind that not all work in the "film industry" is fictional and / or scripted movies. Based on the information you shared in the original post it seemed as though the person making the decisions did not know what they were doing perhaps. If I was questioning anyone's professionalism it was theirs (the producer or director). You did say that it was a two person crew on this documentary. If you don't wish your comments to be misinterpreted then perhaps you should be more clear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tapio Posted March 21, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 21, 2013 Seems like you've got everything covered by yourself ! not sure exactly why you are on the forum ? If the subject matter is more sensitive does the crew drop to one person ? Perhaps the Producer/Director would have got more sensitive coverage being alone ? Anyway, just off to write about my camera skills on a camera guild forum ! I'm not quite sure how the discussion turned into this path.. Maybe because English isn't my mother tongue... Nevertheless, I'll try to answer your questions. Yes, on few occassions there was only me present while the director waited outside listening to a wireless audio feed. (We don't use Comteks here. I use Audio Ltd Envoy En2 series for IFB.) And regarding this forum, I've learned alot by reading the topics here daily and occassionally asking questions when I need help with problems regarding sound. While I work mostly at the "camera department", I give high value to good production sound and try to achieve it as good as I can when working without a sound mixer. I just wanted to share something I figured out today. In case there is someone reading the forum who hadn't heard about it previously. I was aware of the "hide a lav in the hair" but hadn't ever tried to also hide the transmitter in there as well. THAT was the new part for me. And maybe to someone else also. Boom on a stand could be an option sometimes and I use it for sit down interviews. But in this case I needed to go handheld and we kept moving too much for that trick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tapio Posted March 21, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 21, 2013 You did say that it was a two person crew on this documentary. If you don't wish your comments to be misinterpreted then perhaps you should be more clear. Yes. Me and the director. I do realise now that the term "two person crew" usually refers to camera op + sound mixer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old school Posted March 21, 2013 Report Share Posted March 21, 2013 Personally I've never wired a naked person and I hope to keep it that way. Sounds like you found a solution. Congrats. CrewC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RPSharman Posted March 21, 2013 Report Share Posted March 21, 2013 This is a sound forum, not a sound mixers' forum. At least that's what I think. We clearly don't have only sound mixers here. So telling us about your story is just fine. It's always fun to share an experience that is new to you. I think you'll discover most of us have probably never put a mic on a naked person. It would be very uncommon. I do think, however, most of us faced with your situation would have done the same thing. Mic in the hair and pack on the back or under the hair (if we were faced with not being able to boom). Boom on a stand isn't exactly ideal if the person is moving around. No better than camera mic, really. Robert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glen Trew Posted March 22, 2013 Report Share Posted March 22, 2013 I agree with Robert. It's a good story and an unusual situation, but one that does happen from time to time. I probably would have done it the same way, and have. gt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mirror Posted March 22, 2013 Report Share Posted March 22, 2013 I wonder if he used "Power Tape" on her body? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Wielage Posted March 22, 2013 Report Share Posted March 22, 2013 What about the producer who tells a guy he needs a dozen wireless mics and it's a nude scene... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexander Burstein Posted March 22, 2013 Report Share Posted March 22, 2013 What about the producer who tells a guy he needs a dozen wireless mics and it's a nude scene... Wait what? You've experienced that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJBerto Posted March 22, 2013 Report Share Posted March 22, 2013 So how was the transmitter secured to the hair? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmfsnd Posted March 22, 2013 Report Share Posted March 22, 2013 Personally I've never wired a naked person and I hope to keep it that way. Sounds like you found a solution. Congrats. CrewC +1 . The only times I refuse to lav people up is when they are naked, dripping wet, or children under 13. If they need very minimal crew close to action for privacy, and a boom isn't possible, then I wire a mic direct to camera... at least as reference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cujo Posted March 22, 2013 Report Share Posted March 22, 2013 Why would you refuse to wire a child ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geordi Posted March 22, 2013 Report Share Posted March 22, 2013 Simple: I like my mics more than I like their children. Kids will continually fiddle with the mic, are prone to sudden bouts of running around crazy... Dropping the tx in the toilet b/c they are absent minded (Ok, so are some adult talent) and generally really hard on the gear. Kids also tend to be PLENTY loud to get picked up by a boom. Oh, you have a signed-in-writing L&D agreement from production? Yeah... I don't usually get those. The reality world I have been in, the situation is that the mixer who asks questions like that during the hiring process, doesn't finish the hiring process. Yes, it sucks and I hate it this way. My only protection will be my refusal to risk myself or my gear if an unforeseen situation like miking kids happens. THEN if the producer comes up with a written agreement to buy my gear if the kid kills it... OK. Even then - filming animals and children - about the same: never goes according to plan. A similar but unrelated situation happened on one gig, where production decided to follow talent onto their boat to do some OTF interviews and B-roll shots. The b-roll was to be from a (smaller) chase boat, with a capacity of about 4 people. Their half-baked plan was to put 6 people AND GEAR onto this smaller craft, with my boom stretched over the side toward the main boat. I think they might have wanted to try getting dialog this way, while both motors were running. I (knowing quite a bit about pleasure boating) flatly refused to put my gear at risk in that situation, unless they provided me a written declaration of buying my entire kit at full replacement value, should it get wet. One of the camera guys seemed VISIBLY relieved that I did this, and joined in my request for a buyout contract. The producer waffled for a little, then came to his senses and reworked the shot. The OTFs ended up recorded all on the larger boat close up... With the engine STILL very prominent. I suspect that will be a pointless shot, but at least I kept myself and my gear safe. FYI: The family we were recording had 2 kids under 10, and I also declined to wire them without the same coverage. They decided the boom would be sufficient. Nothing the kids said will likely survive the cutting room, even tho I was able to record them perfectly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisnewton Posted March 22, 2013 Report Share Posted March 22, 2013 thanks for the post tapio. can you describe again where you placed the transmitter in her hair? I looked up chignon: "a large coil or plait at the back of the head". how did you fix it in place? my only remotely similar experience involved a naked actor sitting on a bed. his equipment was covered by a small towel. wide shot also boomed but distant positioning. the saving grace was that the character had injured his ribs in a previous scene and had a bandage wrapped around his chest. lucky for me. in the scene he gets up and walks out (we see his butt). Lectro SM in back, COS11 in front, all under the bandage. (unlikely anyone noticed the bulge in the back of the bandage). not nearly as challenging as your situation. congratulations for an innovative solution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Constantin Posted March 23, 2013 Report Share Posted March 23, 2013 I almost always put a wire on children, although I'd prefer not to, for the many reasons listed above. <br />Especially in scenes with adults, it is difficult to get the boom close to the little ones, even when it's easy to boom the grown-ups. So the sound is very uneven, hence the wire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cujo Posted March 23, 2013 Report Share Posted March 23, 2013 Never dealt with kids on outdoor reality so I see your concerns Geordi -- and they are valid. I have worked with kids under different scenarios, some reality but mostly episodic and feature, so the concerns were much less--and there were very specific instructions to the handlers / wranglers / mom / dad about proper care of gear. I've not had an issue yet, but put in your situations, I would have done the same as you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Wielage Posted March 23, 2013 Report Share Posted March 23, 2013 Wait what? You've experienced that? Only in my cartoon! (Google "Sound Mixer Hell.") I've never had a problem wiring up small children, but I've always had the parent or guardian right next to me, and preferably a costume/makeup person as well. I'm very reluctant to put my hands anywhere close to minors if nobody else is around. Wet actors would be a big problem, and I'd probably want to shut down and/or run out and rent a water-resistant transmitter first. I had a "funny" situation a couple of years ago on a commercial where I mic'd up a couple of actors, and then the director decided to soak them. All my adhesive rigging fell on in five seconds -- none of this had been in the script. It took a lot of doing to figure out how to make that work. Nowadays, I carry extra straps, lav bras, and all that stuff, so I'd have some alternative methods. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundmanjohn Posted March 23, 2013 Report Share Posted March 23, 2013 I've done this a number of times for theatre work, although in the days before really small transmitters, we used to have to carry out surgery on the old Sennheiser SK50 pack, and separate the battery holder from the transmitter section as the complete pack was too long to be hidden successfully. Actors were not always that happy, as the weight of the system made it a bit uncomfortable to wear for long periods and we had one lady (ranked at one time as one of the most beautiful women in world) who did everything she could to make the pack fall out of her hair during one preview performance, but only managed to dislodge the battery pack. Consequently, I found myself in the quick-change room with a very stroppy naked lady and a flustered wig-person, trying to get her to stand still long enough to us fix the unit back. She got a telling-off from the director (not the only one - she was a little on the 'difficult' side) and finally accepted the fact that if she was going to be heard, the mic was a necessity. Needless to say, with today's tiny packs, the problem doesn't happen anymore and the hair/wig position is quite common in theatre. Regards John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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