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Fyfey

Wireless Return feed from camera to bag?

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Hello all,

(First time post sorry it this is covered already)

 

I want to know what people are using to wirelessly monitor the “tape“ return from camera. Stereo/mono? Cheap or expensive? 
Brands? How do you do it? 
 

Working on run and gun shows generally and the productions almost always use the hot mix im sending to camera for broadcast.
 

Used kits on large reality/documentary  productions before with the IFB transmitter attached to the camera and have had the option to monitor my return feed. This was great, however i had no individual control over the IFB send, which was a real problem sometimes. 
 

My personal kit I have no option currently and i want the option to hear whats going to tape (yes despite having the back up of a multitrack recorder).

I want to hear whats going to air, check my Links to camera are working and in range and hear what compression/artefacts the camera is doing to my mix, especially since they are using it in the final mix.  
 

Personally id prefer a stereo tx thats miles away from my receiver frequency on a low tx power.
Summed Mono would be OK. 
 

Thanks

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I have only done this a few times with a Zaxcom QRX100 with IFB board. It's kind of made to do exactly this. It sort of worked but the quality of that feed isn't as good as what you're sending, and if there is a problem you don't know if it's actually on the camera or on your return feed. 

 

I don't put such large receivers on cameras anymore and wouldn't want to add a transmitter near my camera receivers either. But you might want/need to.

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I’ve seen zaxcoms IFB return feature, unfortunately I haven’t invested in any of their equipment and Im running all lectrosonics stuff. 
 

Yeh definitely might be hard to determine a fault source if range/frequencies become an issue.. and the whole thing is really just another distraction! however i’d rather have the link for reference/reassurance and to possibly identify a link frequency issue early on rather than later. 

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If you want to have something that pulls double duty, consider a wireless video feed like a Hollyland. If the production is monitoring the camera from another screen, you can tap into hdmi or SDI outs and feed yourself video (on your own monitor or WiFi with some models).  The range is less, but on small jobs that isn't usually an issue. These are very useful on big jobs too.  The SDI/hdmi feed will carry the audio that you are already hopping to the camera, so this return is a confidence feed back to you (I feed it into my last mixer channel from my own little monitor).    This also gives audio on any video playback into any comteks/ifbs you've distributed. 

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The return feed gives a lot of confidence. I like it too, especially for fast news jobs. If range is not really important, I would consider a GHz system in order to avoid negative effects to your other wireless frequencies:

Deity Connect (can handle stereo)

Sennheiser XSW-D

Sennheiser AVX

Rodelink

 

They all are quite affordable, have a good transparent sound, don't have impressive range and a latency (which is not so bad for that purpose I think).

 

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On 6/28/2020 at 6:41 AM, Mungo said:

The return feed gives a lot of confidence. I like it too, especially for fast news jobs. If range is not really important, I would consider a GHz system in order to avoid negative effects to your other wireless frequencies:

Deity Connect (can handle stereo)

Sennheiser XSW-D

Sennheiser AVX

Rodelink

 

They all are quite affordable, have a good transparent sound, don't have impressive range and a latency (which is not so bad for that purpose I think).

 


Yeh it gives confidence for sure, and range isn’t a big deal, its just nice flicking the return switch and hearing something there. 

These seem perfect for the job,

The XSWD is small and discrete, cameras won’t know its there. Ideally its this or the AVX. Rode and deity are quite bulky. 

The only thing is the input... no idea how the XSW D would handle line level/headphone input. The AVX says it takes line level but no info on the xswd. I’ll do some more digging! 
 

Cheers

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3 hours ago, Fyfey said:


The only thing is the input... no idea how the XSW D would handle line level/headphone input. The AVX says it takes line level but no info on the xswd. I’ll do some more digging! 

 

Level works, I tried myself. Only thing needed is a DC blocking capacitor between transmitter and camera headphone out.

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I have the Deity Connect system. It's perfect for this and the stereo capacity can come in handy for certain situations. It's well built and in a pinch, if one of your main Lectros went down, it could pull double duty and step in for one or two of your Lectros. It won't have the range obviously and will be noisier but with some gain staging, they sound good for the money at short working distances. The built-in batteries last all day and TX and RX can be charged as they are in use via USB C or on a break if you are shooting a long day.

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I have used a Sennheiser 100 G3 transmitter on the camera and an G3 ENG receiver in my bag with good results.  Of course it's just mono, but it's a very cost effective solution and reasonably small.

 

Tom

 

 

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This solution I have might not be for everybody - but it took me years to refine this return from camera thing and I've landed on what i feel to be the most reliable for me personally. I use a lectro sma with a dual mono 1/8 connector wired lectro line level. I have the sma set to mode 6 and i feed sennheiser iem’s from camera - 1x for me and rest for director client script etc. 90% of my jobs work very well this way, or i can switch to a transmitter from my rig as needed. Sound quality is scary good. The lectro sma seems to be the one solution the handles all the various headphone output types on cameras extremely well (ran into trouble with sennheiser transmitters on certain camera headphone jack outputs, for example). Its super compact to attach anywhere on the camera and provides a great deal of confidence on what camera is receiving for complete wireless send and return. Plus camera playback is instant to all iem listeners without having to reroute, deal with level changes, etc. On bigger jobs i return to a 411a at my cart. I use eneloop pro’s and get about 4hrs ea run. Not a solution for everybody’s budget i know but when you need something close to bulletproof...this solution might be as close as one can get with all the wireless options i have personally tested. 
 

YMMV

 

-Ken

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On 7/20/2020 at 7:56 PM, osa said:

This solution I have might not be for everybody - but it took me years to refine this return from camera thing and I've landed on what i feel to be the most reliable for me personally. I use a lectro sma with a dual mono 1/8 connector wired lectro line level. I have the sma set to mode 6 and i feed sennheiser iem’s from camera - 1x for me and rest for director client script etc. 90% of my jobs work very well this way, or i can switch to a transmitter from my rig as needed. Sound quality is scary good. The lectro sma seems to be the one solution the handles all the various headphone output types on cameras extremely well (ran into trouble with sennheiser transmitters on certain camera headphone jack outputs, for example). Its super compact to attach anywhere on the camera and provides a great deal of confidence on what camera is receiving for complete wireless send and return. Plus camera playback is instant to all iem listeners without having to reroute, deal with level changes, etc. On bigger jobs i return to a 411a at my cart. I use eneloop pro’s and get about 4hrs ea run. Not a solution for everybody’s budget i know but when you need something close to bulletproof...this solution might be as close as one can get with all the wireless options i have personally tested. 
 

YMMV

 

-Ken

Very interesting, great solution when you don't need to customise your IEM sends on those jobs. For bag use i could just chuck any old G3 in the return slot. 
 
Expensive yes. Never used mode 6, good to know its solid with cheaper sennheiser iem packs. Thats what i call a 'custom' cable... a dual mono 3.5mm to TA5F with line level attenuation. Volume adjustment on the SMA would be perfect for getting the levels just right for different cameras. The only problem i see is the single AA having to be changed all the time, unless you split the power from your camera RX. 

Main question is Is the sma is transmitting miles away from your RX Freqs and no issues there being so close together?

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On 7/20/2020 at 8:56 PM, osa said:

This solution I have might not be for everybody - but it took me years to refine this return from camera thing and I've landed on what i feel to be the most reliable for me personally. I use a lectro sma with a dual mono 1/8 connector wired lectro line level. I have the sma set to mode 6 and i feed sennheiser iem’s from camera - 1x for me and rest for director client script etc. 90% of my jobs work very well this way, or i can switch to a transmitter from my rig as needed. Sound quality is scary good. The lectro sma seems to be the one solution the handles all the various headphone output types on cameras extremely well (ran into trouble with sennheiser transmitters on certain camera headphone jack outputs, for example). Its super compact to attach anywhere on the camera and provides a great deal of confidence on what camera is receiving for complete wireless send and return. Plus camera playback is instant to all iem listeners without having to reroute, deal with level changes, etc. On bigger jobs i return to a 411a at my cart. I use eneloop pro’s and get about 4hrs ea run. Not a solution for everybody’s budget i know but when you need something close to bulletproof...this solution might be as close as one can get with all the wireless options i have personally tested. 
 

YMMV

 

-Ken

 

What a brilliant idea. Pricey, but smart! The SMA is so light and small that no one will complain and it has better rf power, accuracy and versatility (input level) compared to a Senn transmitter.

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