The rising problem of inaudible dialogue

[Bondelev]

I posted this link on FaceBook and got a lot of response; I thought I would post it here as well.

http://www.denofgeek.com/movies/539423/the_rising_problem_of_inaudible_dialogue.html

[Richard Lightstone, CAS]

The author of this article has inadvertently insulted a lot of excellent Production Mixers, Re-Recording Mixers and Actors in one fell sweep.

"I do accept that I'm lucky. My hearing is okay, but as I get older, inevitably - as it will with us all - it'll deteriorate. And I wonder whether I'll get to the point where I'll watch more and more films and television programmes with the subtitles on."

This tells me he seems to be watching the "films" on DVD on his home set along with the television shows. I've worked with Marlon Brando on two films and when I recorded his dialogue had no problem understanding every thing he said and despite the myth that he was a mumbler, proved not true. I saw the 70 MM screening of  "Apocalypse Now" on it's opening weekend in New York city - understanding everything he said and every time I've seen the film again, including the "Redux" version, no problems.

I doubt Directors and the Re-Recording mixers are unaware and just let the supposed mumbling dialog go; too bad if the audience is taken out of the film.

Face it, all the complainers are getting old and that's the real problem here. First, turn your iPods down and then buy better hearing aids and stop complaining. Oh, and see the film in  the theater first before resorting to watching the DVD.

RL

[Marc Wielage]

I'm not so quick to dismiss this. A lot of the video fans on the AVS Forum complain about dialog intelligibility on DVD and Blu-ray releases. Largely, I think it's a problem with a theatrical mix not translating well to a home video mix. Low, mumbled dialog at -20, followed by a huge explosion and/or loud music, will often blow you right out of the room with a home system. Even with the DialNorm mode engaged, it doesn't always compensate for this problem.

Critics like Roger Ebert have touched on this in some of their reviews, too. I think there was a discussion here or on RAMPS about the last minute or so of narration in Dark Knight as one example. I have no doubt the mix sounded fine on the stage, and it's clearly a creative choice.

--Marc W.

[John Blankenship]

Couple what Marc said with the fact that a growing number of today's actors have never bothered with learning enunciation -- after all, mumbling and slurring words is EMOTION.

Meanwhile the Gary Oldmans and Meryl Streeps could scream, whistle, or think, and convey any emotion they wish.

John B.

[Zack]

Couple what Marc said with the fact that a growing number of today's actors have never bothered with learning enunciation -- after all, mumbling and slurring words is EMOTION.

Meanwhile the Gary Oldmans and Meryl Streeps could scream, whistle, or think, and convey any emotion they wish.

John B.

Reminds me of the music industry

[mikewest]

A lot of young New Zealand actors think acting is whispering!

Do it now or loop it later I say

mike

[Jan McL]

On the constantly-running list of things to be aware of as we roll is intelligibility. Only if the mumbled dialog contains some important bit of information that moves the story forward do I take a walk to the script supervisor and discuss whether he or she shares my opinion, and whether to bring it to the attention of the director. Otherwise, it doesn't seem worth it to bother the thespian in question. That acting thing is difficult enough...

Had a producer come to me at the beginning of a show with the news that 'X' is a mumbler, and that intelligibility was paramount to the people at the top of our food chain. I took that to mean I should wire the person all the time (correct choice), and pay especial attention to their words. Only made the 'village walk' three or four times during the course of the project, but thankfully the producer had done his job, and the actor knew it to be an issue, so it wasn't a surprise. A few times, the actor came to me after the wide shot to ask how he'd done with a particularly difficult speech.

It's ultimately the director's on-set decision whether to demand and enforce clarity, but the entire production needs to be behind the decision to enforce articulation, including a producer who will take actors to task for conveying not only the emotional truth of the words, but the words and the information they contain.

To my admittedly older ears, music and FX are consistently mixed too high relative to dialog. I won't try to figure out why, except to say that music marketers have clearly taken big seats at the film / television table.

-- Jan

[Angelo Waldron]

Could be a combination of problems.  Now we have low talkers that don't project their voice. 40 years ago... no low talkers.

And isn't 7.1 Dolby SRD wonderful! First thing a theater owner will do after getting the sound professionally adjusted is complain that the room doesn't sound good.. "it doesn't sound full enough"......and projectionist will go to the processor and turn up the surrounds. "It's much better know!"

And then there's the Digital Cinema Package....it's becoming the new buzz word in digital projection. And now you can make your offline workprint in this format....and the sound is all over the place. "I just viewed this back in my office and it was fine.. what's wrong with your sound system?" The same goes for the video.....color all over the place.

"Frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn"

[Jeff Wexler]

Meanwhile the Gary Oldmans and Meryl Streeps could scream, whistle, or think, and convey any emotion they wish.

John B.

I know it can be done: good level, intelligibility, emotion, the whole thing. I used to tell a story to actors who might listen, about Peter O'Toole, that he could whisper and it would carry for a good city block and you could understand every word. I had the pleasure of working with Peter on a little movie called "Creator" and asked him if this story that I had been telling all these years was really true. He stepped back from me where we were talking, walked about 200 feet and then spun around and said in the most glorious "stage whisper" I have ever heard  "Yes, Jeff, it is true!" Made my day.

[Philip Perkins]

I know it can be done: good level, intelligibility, emotion, the whole thing. I used to tell a story to actors who might listen, about Peter O'Toole, that he could whisper and it would carry for a good city block and you could understand every word. I had the pleasure of working with Peter on a little movie called "Creator" and asked him if this story that I had been telling all these years was really true. He stepped back from me where we were talking, walked about 200 feet and then spun around and said in the most glorious "stage whisper" I have ever heard  "Yes, Jeff, it is true!" Made my day.

Theatre training.  Years of it, by great teachers.  My daughter is at the UCLA Theatre Dept these days and witnesses this transformation every day (she's a writer/director, so cares A LOT about articulation).  Acting has a real craft aspect to it, and articulation no matter what the emotional and volume level of the speech is a big part of it.  Many of today's actors (esp on TV or in commercials) are chosen exclusively for how they look.  Some are smart enough to understand that they have a lot to learn (esp when they are paired with experienced character actors in complex scenes), and others figure their delivery is everyone else's problem but their own.  I have recorded scenes in which the other actors standing near the "star" couldn't understand what he/she was saying, let alone a mic overhead or a director standing nearby....  But for those scenes we have that big red "Make It Better" button in post!

phil p

[Jeff Wexler]

I have recorded scenes in which the other actors standing near the "star" couldn't understand what he/she was saying, let alone a mic overhead or a director standing nearby....  But for those scenes we have that big red "Make It Better" button in post!

phil p

"...and did I tell you we're shooting on the RED" fits here as well. It is my personal feeling that both the sound and the image, despite the technological advancements, has been steadily declining over the last 10 years. Often, the sound (especially the dialog) is much better in films made in 1940's primarily because the actors spoke properly. We can only record what is presented to us and these days that can be almost anything imaginable.

-  Jeff Wexler

[studiomprd]

We work in the "Motion Picture Arts and Sciences"; production sound folks are pretty much the sciences part!

the laws of physics remain pretty solid, and must be dealt with, as well.

what about the Actors?? is that just the 'Arts' ?? nope,there is the technical part of acting, which typically includes being heard!

what about DP's ?? certainlt that is "Arts" ?? (especially in "digital"!)  nope,  DP's need to have plenty of "sciences" stuff at their command, or all the "arts" stuff will be lost.

what about the moviemaker (Director) ?? the same is true, and in fact I keep telling student movie-makers that in order to be able to get to the "Arts" part, you need to have a lot of the "Sciences" stuff down cold!

[RPSharman]

Saw a big studio movie this weekend, and heard the "hiss" as the gain was pushed to bring an actor's very quiet line up to an audible level.  While the movie sounded good as a whole, I found that moment distracting, and it momentarily took me out of the movie.  This actor typically performs at a very good level in all of his films, and I very much enjoy his performances.  This was just one moment.  But I find that more and more people are talking unnaturally low during their performances.

I recently set up the sound system in my kids' elementary school.  Got everything set so that feedback would be minimized.  I made it very clear that if the gain needed to be increased, then feedback would occur.  The solution is telling the child they must speak louder.  When I was in theatre as a child, we weren't mic'd, and we had a big theatre not a small multi-purpose room.  We had to speak loud to be heard.

Robert

[Guest BobD]

I think the advancements that help us have ultimately hurt us...

By that I mean, along with a great deal of lost filming protocol over the last few years, the ability of us being able to use such good wireless gear has been recognized by those production personal and DPs we work with. The way in which we have shot things for so long has gone out the window. Shooting with multiple cameras, the wides and close ups at the same time, has at times removed our ability to get really quality dialog by not allowing our boom mics to get in on the close stuff. A while back, we boomed the wide as best we could, then jumped in to get the good stuff in coverage... It was a system that worked. But to save money and put more crap into the 5 lb. bag, everything many times is now done at once...  We suffer, the show suffers and of course the sound itself suffers..

  The points being made earlier also contribute, but again, speaking up, and pronouncing things have also been affected by this same "wireless " mentality...  Actors have become used to being wired and think that if the mic is ON them, maybe they don't need to speak up.  Even if you are booming a shot, they think technology is going to make the audio "appear" on the track... Another factor is plain and clear, it is really hard to get a quiet set anymore.... The crews are abusive as are the locations.... Again, everyone thinks that the post folks can just erase the bad stuff.

These are fundamental problems in filming mentality that need to be addressed and moved back a bit if we are ever to get back on track.

Too much technology and too little protocol of filming in my opinion.  BD

[Jeff Wexler]

What BobD says...  well put, sad comment on the state of moviemaking these days. I'm afraid there is no turning back. "I heard them talking" has become the benchmark for production sound recording. I concur as well with the pathetic state of sets, locations, as far as noise, one of the worst is crew generated chatter, no one shuts up until they finally hear an actor talking.

-  JW

[studiomprd]

" no one shuts up until they finally hear an actor talking. "

if they can hear the actor talking

" no one shuts up until they finally hear an actor talking. "

IF then

[BVS]

There are many factors that contribute to inaudible dialog that have been stated so far...one of the ones I used to come across as a rerecording mixer was.... the lines were inaudible but because everyone on post production had heard it so many times before it had snuck through..my comment on this is,most audiences will only ever hear this once and in combination with fx and music....what sounded just ok in a dialog premix won't hack it in a mix, so gets missed...and if the quality of the performance is not audible because the director like the mumbled nature of it,then thats what you get.

I used to make notes as I went through a double head screening of dialog that wasn't clear...most dialog editors would do it as a matter of course anyway,and arrange adr for the scene......

There's lots to discuss on this subject...but for me, later...its Sunday here and have a shoot on this afternoon.

BVS

[RPSharman]

What BobD says...  well put, sad comment on the state of moviemaking these days. I'm afraid there is no turning back. "I heard them talking" has become the benchmark for production sound recording. I concur as well with the pathetic state of sets, locations, as far as noise, one of the worst is crew generated chatter, no one shuts up until they finally hear an actor talking.

I have often been asked by an AD, when I need to fix a noise problem after take one, why I didn't do anything about it before we started rolling.  I simply answer that take one was the first time the set was quiet enough to hear it (especially with the new no rehearsal philosophy).  The response is usually a knowing smile, and the assistance to get it fixed as quickly as possible.

Robert