Derek H Posted January 29 Report Share Posted January 29 So I’ve been using a Sonosax SX-ST semi-regularly (not mine) and there’s a few things that still mystify me. Maybe some of the long time Sonosax users can enlighten me here. No output limiters? Really? I was surprised and asked Sonosax about this and was told that since it has always-on input limiters that one would never overload the output unless using a large amount of fader gain. Well then! I suspect the guys at Sonosax have never tried to mix a scene with mumbled whispers plus action even if that action is an unexpected folder slapping a desk or someone accidentally kicking a chair... when you’re adding 30dB of gain to pull out some ridiculous whisper just about anything can blow you out of the water. Overload LED? Sending tone (@+8) from a Lectro venue seems to overload the input when set to the “2nd click” and trim at the 0 detent. Ok, but when I reduce the trim the red LED remains lit even though all other evidence suggests the input is no longer overloading. Is this just a quirk of how the LED is lit in the circuit? My concern would be that reducing the trim knob doesn’t actually reduce the gain but introduces attenuation in which case you’d be just turning the overload down. Sonosax seemed to indicate this was not the case and my ears agree as does the meter on the recording LCD module.. yet the red LED persists. The Venue won’t overload it in the “1st click” without jacking the trim but that’s almost never enough gain for the performances I’m dealing with. Granted I’m usually not fully modulating the transmitters especially for the whispers so there’s a lot of latitude before clipping but still it can occasionally be tough to find the gain sweet spot and I’ve been tempted to reduce the Venue output levels to find some sort of happy medium. How do you guys typically setup your SX-ST with Lectros? Maybe I’m overthinking it all as the results have been generally good but for some reason this board has eccentricities that I don’t see on other equipment. Thanks! Sorry for the long rant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Izen Ears Posted January 30 Report Share Posted January 30 Probably not helpful thought here, but when I encounter whispers-with-loud scenes, I just mix the scene quietly so the loud sounds are proper. I think the real solution is a limiter on the Comtek / IFB outputs. Then people could jam up their volumes and they wouldn't care about the heavy compression when the loud sounds happen. (At least they wouldn't care as much as post production would care if the compression was on the source track.) I've thought about trying this with guitar compressor pedals... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wyatt Tuzo Posted January 30 Report Share Posted January 30 I don't have time for a long response at the moment, but don't forget about one of my favorite features of the SX-ST, the 12/24dB over unity switch. For scenes like you mention, I would frequently switch over to 24 and use this to push the quieter passages to the mix (gain at the fader) while allowing all the headroom needed for the louder passages in the ISO. I miss this feature an awful lot after moving to a control surface. When I encounter this now, I mult the input to two separate channels and give each their own gain ranges... This gives me a similar effect, but across two faders. I track each of these two ISO's, so in a way, it can be even more flexible. As I'm using Axient, I don't have to worry about gain at the Tx stage And RE your outputs... The Sonosax has an awful lot of internal headroom. If you're bumping up against (a lack of) output limiters, try to adjust gain staging to your busses. You can also dial the output bus masters down a bit and apply the appropriate amount of makeup gain at your recorder. Hope this all makes sense. I will forever miss my Sonosax, but adapt or die, as they say Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek H Posted January 30 Author Report Share Posted January 30 Thanks Wyatt and Dan(?) for your suggestions. I also love the 24dB mode on the SX-ST for quiet-loud scenes and agree with the mentality of just let the iso be lower and mix quieter. However post on my show will send us emails if we deliver low ISOs. I almost think they’d rather fix clipping than deal with low levels. I don’t really get it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Tresch Posted February 1 Report Share Posted February 1 Usually post shout on low levels when there is only noise to dig but when you have good preamps it's not a problem to have low level as it keeps the sound clear even if you push it (reasonably) in post. IMHO it's less job to put a +10dB in post than to clean clipping. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek H Posted February 2 Author Report Share Posted February 2 Thanks for posting that! Seems Stuart’s mixing quite a bit lower than I typically do. I’m usually trying to get the input level to 0 and the post fade a 6-10dB above that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Izen Ears Posted February 2 Report Share Posted February 2 On 1/30/2024 at 4:29 PM, Derek H said: post on my show will send us emails if we deliver low ISOs Even for these shout/whisper scenes?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek H Posted February 2 Author Report Share Posted February 2 Yeah it’s happened. I remember a scene where we went from quiet dialog to hysterical screams and I thought I aced the screaming part (used the 24dB mode) but then heard back that levels were too low on the quiet part. Oh well. I try to tweak the trims as needed but sometimes it’s not really possible quickly enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip Perkins Posted February 2 Report Share Posted February 2 1 hour ago, Derek H said: Yeah it’s happened. I remember a scene where we went from quiet dialog to hysterical screams and I thought I aced the screaming part (used the 24dB mode) but then heard back that levels were too low on the quiet part. Oh well. I try to tweak the trims as needed but sometimes it’s not really possible quickly enough. Wait--you got the screaming and they complained about the low bits within the same take? I'd file that in the "Ignore" folder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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