DHB

Oh, that 'Noises' plugin doesn't appeal to me. I HAVE used, through, the vaguely similar, but rather more immersive and enveloping Sampleson 'Scaper' (..as in audio landscaper). Not a beat machine, but creates entire 'sci-fi-ish' soundscapes. "..It's just a silly phase I'm going through.." ..the best! On misty nights across the river (Thames), that would come wafting on the wind from Turk's Launches' late night disco boat.. (I remember booking Graham Gouldman and The Whirlwinds at Kennedy Street Enterprises in Manchester ..before they morphed into 10cc, and his mum and dad being costume designer and stage manager of our local am-dram society ..but I'm getting carried away, and that was - aarrgghh! - *sixty* years (!!!) ago.) Er, careering swiftly back on topic; I'll be watching 'Diva' again tonight, trying to spy where the postboy's Nagra mic is, and what it could be - we never see it. What would I have used where he's sitting in that theatre to catch Cynthia Hawkins singing 'La Wally'? ..a Neumann RSM 191? ..Dunno..

Hi Jim. "..So are you thinking Hainbach got the tape flange/phase thing wrong, Steve Reich's concept of phase music wrong, or both? Or something else?" I think that Hainbach(?) got Steve Reich's concept of "phase music" exactly right ..but I think it's the wrong name for what they've done. Their music (?) slips *out of step*, but not out of *phase* ('flanging') - the sounds don't cancel out each other when a peak of one waveform meets a trough of the same waveform. This - to me - is more like jolly 'hear what happens when two or more tape machines run increasingly out of sync with each other' (..didn't we all do this when we were about twelve years old?) ..It's a slippage in syncopation, it's a delayed overlap, but although Steve Reich apparently calls it 'Phasing' I think that's the wrong name for it. Hainbach copies Steve Reich's method, if you like, and does a similar thing with a couple of Nagras, but I'd call it 'dislocation' or something similar. 'Phasing' is what Kenny Everett, of blessed memory (a UK DJ) used to do on BBC radio: he'd play Beatles records *out-of-phase* ..taking a copy of a disc, inverting the phase, so that the central mono Beatles *voices* cancelled out, thus removing the lyrics so that radio listeners could sing along with the music as if they (we) *were* the Beatles! For me, 'phasing' is that down-a-drainpipe 'flanging' sound, but Steve Reich's - and Hainbach's - staggered delays, or repetitions at a different tempo, or speed, are, perhaps 'Phrasing', but not 'Phasing'. Hainbach certainly got it right ..b-but the question remains: "Why do it?" ..It's an exploration of what things sound like when they're overlaid 'out-of-step' on top of each other, and that might entertain one's ears. [..For me, a more involving and delightful and similar 'staggered time' work was a - very short - film made by, or inspired by, the man who made the neon tower which stood on top of London's Hayward Gallery; it faded and dissolved from one colour to another depending on the wind direction and speed. The 16mm colour film consisted of a view of boats on a river, shot 1st through a red filter, then a blue filter and then a green filter, with the film being rewound and put back exactly 'in rack' (frame-accurately) in the camera (maybe a Bolex) and then run through again. When the wind was calm, the three sets of images coincided perfectly, and the scene looked like a normal colour film, but as the boats swung with the stream and with the wind, not only did their positions change slightly, but - because the images no longer perfectly overlapped - they dissolved into different colours; red+green, or blue+green, or blue+red, and them merged again into their original colours.. THAT was like, for me, seeing music! ..It'd be nice if that kind of more thoughtful thing could have been done with the 'Phasing' exercise, above, rather than just letting the same sounds slip out, and back in again, of temporal step.] So, Hainbach did an approximation of what Steve Reich did ..but I much prefer the slipping in and out of step of "Three six nine, the goose drank wine, the monkey chewed tobacca on the street car line" (Shirley Ellis, 'The Clapping Song') or the change of emphasis on all those different syllables of Martha and the Vandellas' 'Dancing In The Street'! Now That's What I Call Music!

"..Not sure he got everything right.." No, he's just delaying and repeating his tape loops ..the delay's too coarse for it to be just a fraction-of-a-second *phase* delay. (Of course the 4.2 CAN be locked to a pilot-tone, or other camera servo ..but his IV-S lacks that extra head.) It's enjoyable for its enthusiasm, but it's rather like the old BBC Radiophonic Workshop, or the Watkins Copycat tape loop echo recorder: the pair aren't sufficiently finely-tuned to slip just a little out of *phase* ..and then back again. Still, it's fun, and he's enjoying himself, but the title's wrong. But nice to see such well-preserved machines, though!

Hi - again. Follow up, Summary and Coda, after a week or so’s pause, while doing other things.. My 'Factory Reset’ of my F8 had wiped all the settings - of course - and so I went back to First Principles, and assumed that NOTHING was set the way I wanted it - so I started completely afresh. ‘Factory Reset’ wiped out the Bluetooth Connectivity software in the F8, so I re-downloaded the F8 Bluetooth Add-on ‘Software Extension’ and re-installed that. That gave me back the Bluetooth connectivity for using the iPad: https://tinyurl.com/F8Bluet00th ‘Factory Reset’, of course, did reset the date settings to US instead of UK, and all my other chosen settings, and crucially - though I hadn’t noticed - ‘Track 1-8 (Poly WAV)’ had become the default recording option, instead of my ‘Track 1-8 + L/R (Poly WAV)’ ..meaning that only my ISOs were being recorded, and it was by-passing the FRC-8 Faders ..thus NOTHING was recorded through the FRC-8 Faders into the L/R Mix. The FRC-8 Faders now DO give a live mix, after having reset the F8 to ‘Track 1-8 + L/R (Poly WAV)’ ..and up to the maximum gain set by each input’s Trim/Gain knob. In answer to Philip’s question (previous page) “How is the fader latency vs the iPad?” I can say that there’s no more latency, or lag, using the Bluetooth Zoom Controller app on an iPad (..or even iPhone!..) compared with the USB-wired FRC-8 physical Controller ..meaning NO latency at all - all adjustments, either by Bluetooth or by USB have no more lag than using the physical dials on the F8 itself ..they’re smooth and instantaneous. (There isn’t, presumably, the processing that’s involved in translating analog *audio* to digital, and un-converting it, as when using Bluetooth mics or cans. All that is transmitted and received from and to the F8 is just straight digital commands.) Incidentally, nowhere, except in a small box on page 25 of the F8 Manual, does it show WHAT EXACTLY the various types of FILE FORMATS deliver in recordings. And nowhere does the small box on page 25 state that Tracks 1-8 will be recorded WITHOUT any Fader adjustment, but with input Gain adjustable only via the Trim/Gain knobs ..and ONLY the (virtual) FADERS of the F8 will provide the additional L/R mix when using ‘Track 1-8 + L/R (Poly WAV)’. As the virtual faders of the F8 recorder (reached by twiddling the rotating Menu Knob until what you want is highlighted, then pressing to engage) are so awkward to enable - and then only adjustable one-by-one - they were hardly manageable on the F8 recorder itself. The FRC-8 ‘Controller’, with its all-simultaneously-usable physical faders and Bluetooth app gave hope that a real-time fader mix was easily feasible. I’m sorry that I said that the FRC-8 Controller is “..devised by some capricious, hellish, nincompoop..” ..that should, instead, be redirected at the F8’s software writer(s), who should have made the ‘Factory Reset’ default to ‘Track 1-8 + L/R (Poly WAV)’ - i.e; including a Fader L/R Mix - instead of defaulting to just ‘Track 1-8 (Poly WAV)’ ..which is ISOs ONLY ..negating the whole purpose of the physical faders on the FRC-8 Controller ! I’m thinking of putting online an F8-plus-FRC-8 ‘mini bible’ about these elementary points ..and at some time I might ask for comments and maybe proof-readings. My bible would say “Here’s how to record separate ISO (isolated) tracks, set by each Input’s individual Trim/Gain knob,*PLUS* a live mix with Faders: in the Main Menu choose ‘REC’, then ‘Rec to SD1’ (..or SD2 and/or Rec to both SD cards..) and set the recording format to *Track 1-8 + L/R (Poly WAV)*. (If you do want ONLY ISO (individually selected isolated) input tracks - but with NO actual live fader mix - then choose ‘Track 1-8 (Poly WAV)’ instead.)” I’m old school, and for me the live mix is the *essential* recording, not the the ISOs, which I treat as backups. And - like Jeff says: “..I am still baffled how anyone could work without doing a mix, whether anyone else wants the track or not. If you have more than one source that is contributing to the scene, if you're not mixing what are you doing? Do you just keep flipping the PFL whenever that person is talking? Do you just monitor with every source (microphone) open so you know you've got something? … I said that the way I know my individual sources are working properly or clean (whether it is a boom mic, a lav or a plant) is when I bring that source into my mix, because I need it, and it sounds good!” [https://tinyurl.com/Jeff-150s] So now, with ‘Track 1-8 + L/R (Poly WAV)’ re-enabled, my FRC-8 IS tracking a mix through the physical faders on the FRC-8 hardware ‘Controller’. I should have looked to see if the Factory Reset had wrecked the F8’s recording mode - it had - and I should have gone through *every* setting to correct things in the destructive wake of ‘Factory Reset’ ..that was my own fault or oversight. I can now whole-heartedly recommend the FRC-8 ‘Controller’ which CAN mix on the fly, as long as ‘Track 1-8 + L/R (Poly WAV)’ is the - correctly set - recording preference ..and wholeheartedly recommend the Bluetooth app, too. For now, Th-th-th-that’s All, Folks!

You're welcome.

"..Of course if you change the values of them by any other method (would also be true if you changed it via the iPad) [my emphasis] then the position they're on would no longer be an accurate reflection of what they actually are, until they "catch up" again." (I think this'll be my last comment ABOUT THE FRC-8, as I've been writing MY OWN appraisal, and I realise that others may, of course, have their own, and entirely different, appraisals..) No, IronFilm.. what I've pointed out - and shown with photos on the previous page - is that the iPad implementation ..look, here's one of those photos again.. ..is that the iPad implementation has separate controls for Trim/Gain and for Panning. The virtual knobs for those two operations are separate and distinct on the iPad: the highlighted knob under Input 5, for example, is EXCLUSIVELY for Trim/Gain so its position always accurately reflects the degree of Gain set by that (virtual) knob. The iPad L/R Panning controls are directly beneath those (virtual) Gain knobs, are EXCLUSIVELY for Panning, and also always accurately reflect the immediately visible amount of Left/Right Pan set by the (virtual) horizontal slider. So - unlike on the FRC-8 Controller - those iPad controls are ALWAYS "..an accurate reflection of what they actually are" ..and without any need to "catch up" again. Anyway, that's my appraisal and comparison, as promised on Page 1 of this topic - after having asked the Zoom rep why the Controller had been abandoned by Zoom, and then actually buying one to discover what it can, and cannot, do. It has no screen of its own, for example, so one has to keep referring to the small F8 screen when using Menus, etc, whereas the iPad version BECOMES A HUGE SCREEN and makes everything so much simpler to select in Menus, for example (..just like the iPhone did away with physical buttons). That's my take on the FRC-8 ..the link to the seller on AliExpress is still there on the previous page, so anyone can try all of this for themselves and can say what conclusions THEY reach. Thanks for all your comments.

".. sell it and move on. That's a far better use of your time and money than trashing the recorder and its control surface here". Oh I don't think I ever trashed the F8 recorder. I think it's a great device. It's just the FRC-8 'Controller' isn't so great as it first seems: when you swap - by pressing a button - the individual black 'Trim or Pan' knobs from being one or the other, and then swap back; the 'Trim' (audio gain) can jump to an entirely different level that's NOT shown any more by the position of the knob, for example. (The implementation on the F8 box itself is far better, as a different 'virtual' knob (operated by the 'Menu Selector' knob) is used, thus leaving the 'Trim/Gain' knob in its correct, previous position.) The iPad implementation is also better, as there's a constantly visible horizontal 'Pan' position shown for each individual Input - see the pics on the previous page - and you just don't get that on the FRC-8 implementation. The FRC-8 looks more 'meaty', and looks as if you're getting a better, more tactile, implementation ..but in many ways - despite other people's ecstatic reviews when it initially appeared - it has the appearance of being a better 'control surface'. But the actual use, for example, of the same knobs for both 'Pan' and 'Trim' causes real problems, as their orientations do NOT necessarily match the choices you've made. 'Panning' to the right, for example, gives you a knob set way over to the right ..but if you then press the little button to switch it back to its 'Trim' use, then its way-over-right position doesn't match your 'Trim' (or 'Gain') position. So it may look as if it's at Maximum, but its Trim (Gain) output will normally be way off Maximum. Indeed, switching it back from 'Pan' to 'Trim' can often cause a huge drop in gain ..and you wouldn't want that when mixing live! So it's not just that it doesn't work for me - or my non-orthodox way of working - the thing is that it really is flawed in several ways ..try it yourself, and you'll see just what I mean.

".. "They're not wireless though?? How can you do a live mix of the scene with them??? You can't! Using Tentacle Track E bodypack recorders is contradictory to your previous statement of wanting a real time mix." Exactly: by using Track-Es I don't need to do a live mix; I don't need to watch levels and keep the sound clean - one step less in the process, as I know that the sound will be OK. The Track-Es wipe out the need to do a live mix. As I said: "..To avoid the live knob-twiddling while capturing audio, I’ve migrated to TRACK-E 32-bit float devices ..so I don’t have to even *think* about possible overload, or too quiet a diminuendo". So I've removed the 'live mix' step, which I previously did, and - knowing that the audio now needs no attention during recording (because of the huge capture range) - I just slam the several Track-E recordings into the edit by lining them up with the video tracks (..in FCP..), and just raise or lower audio - if required! - while editing. I do not need to monitor or adjust the audio while recording any more (..as I had been doing with all previous methods..) and I don't need to provide any audio mix to anyone else. It's like I don't have to keep shovelling coal into the boiler, while keeping watch on the temperature and on the steam pressure: I'm now driving an electric locomotive, and I just press Go and Stop.

Well, DocSoundGuy, that’s not the way I’ve ever worked. So - to me - it’s not “intuitive”. You’re saying the ISOs are ‘set-and-forget’. “There's zero reason to adjust the levels live on the isos except to make sure they aren't clipping, or perhaps ride the gain slightly during extremely dynamic scenes”. That’s how I work: “..ride the gain slightly during extremely dynamic scenes”. IronFilm says (on the previous page) “..if you're just setting and forgetting, then the iPad does very well indeed. If you need to do fast and high precision mixes during scenes, then the physical faders of the F Control are nicer. Or what if you wish to be able to mix just by feel without looking down at your control surface while you keep your eyes focused on the video monitor(s)? Then the F Control is vastly preferable to the iPad”. I assume, DocSound, that you’re recording to deliver what I’d call ‘Raw’ audio, and leaving those ‘Raw’ ISOs to be re-mixed later by the Re-Recording Mixer - along with music, dog barks, panning, and all the usual audio cookery. But I’m generally a one-man-band, and don’t want to spend - although I do - hours in re-mix and editing, taking the raw material and ‘re-modelling’ from raw audio. I generally mix ‘on-the-fly’, so that I’ve got the mix I want in real time. I’m not the cog in the machine; I AM the machine. To avoid the live knob-twiddling while capturing audio, I’ve migrated to TRACK-E 32-bit float devices ..so I don’t have to even *think* about possible overload, or too quiet a diminuendo giving too much noise-to-signal. All I do is then line up the audio with the video in edit, possibly raise or lower the levels, mute unwanted tracks, and Bob’s your uncle! With multiple sources - with a Nagra, or PortaDAT, or any previous formats, or Deva or 744 - I mixed as I recorded, to leave less work for later. You say “..The problem is you aren't using it as intended (and … it isn't the right tool for the way you want it to work)”. Yup, you’re right: It’s clearly not the right tool for the way I work. I work ‘live’ ..making as much of the final mix ‘in the moment’ to save going over the same thing later. I don’t hand over my tracks to someone else to mix or sweeten after the event. I’ll have a word with the re-recording mixer (Me) and see if he wants to change the way we work (I doubt it) and both he and I think that I/We bought the wrong device for Us. Or else one - or both - of Us will re-wire the actual faders to become the Gain knobs. Or We’ll just forget all about it, and use more TRACK-Es. With many thanks for your comprehensive response.

OK, back now - I’ve worked it out. I know why the FRC-8 F-Controller was abandoned by Zoom: it just isn’t what it purports to be, and those customers who DID buy it must have been so annoyed and disgusted by it that more were returned for their money back than Zoom could cope with, so they cancelled the manufacturing order. The Bluetooth-operated iPad Controller is far better ..except that having done a Factory Reset to make everything work better, now the F8’s Bluetooth is completely [expletive deleted], so the iPad version is impossible to get working again! ..Grrrrrr! [Bangs head on wall.] Let me explain: on the F8 itself - and this is how I’d been happily using it, till I bought the [expletive deleted] FRC-8 Controller - there’s a small knob for every Input, and that controls the recording level. In one of the Menus, you just set ‘KNOB’ to ‘✔️ Fader’ ..and for each Input which you use, that knob fades the audio up and down. (The rotatable ‘Menu Choice’ knob then becomes the ‘Trim’ or overall ‘Gain’ knob for each Input when you press that Input’s Pre-Fade button ..which brings up all the details for that particular Input, shows the current Gain setting for that Input, and you can thus set the basic audio level for that Input, and that Input’s Big Knob - excuse the expression - then fades up from silent to the max which you’ve set with that Input’s (virtual) ’Gain’ knob). All fine and dandy, and that’s how I’ve always used it ..unless I used the iPad to control it, as that has the very useful horizontal L/R panning sliders on it: instead of fiddling with the Menu Knob, and Pre-Fade, to step between all the functions for each Input channel and thereby pan the Input from L100 to R100, with Centre in the (virtual) middle, of course. But then I had this stupid idea to buy the FRC-8 USB-wired ‘Controller’ ..seduced by its sliding ‘Faders’ which seemed a so much simpler way to control the Inputs, just like you would with any Mixer. Ah! ..but that’s the difference: it LOOKS like a Mixer ..but it ain’t: it’s a ‘Controller’ ..devised by some capricious, hellish, nincompoop to fool gullible but serious recordists like me into thinking that it’s an Input MIXER! ..It’s [expletive deleted] NOT! The Faders are for headphone monitoring or for playback and re-mixing what’s been already recorded. They DO NOT mix the Inputs while recording - unless sending out to some (Main Out or Sub Out) External Device for recording, or sending audio elsewhere. Only the circular KNOBS - just like on the F8 box itself - set the actual live recording levels! ..Though those BIG KNOBS aren’t all that big; they’re small and fiddly, just like the ones on the actual F8 box. The Faders do look nice and big ..bigger than the BIG KNOBS.. but they’re just eye-candy, or “the mug’s eyeful”, as Alan Sugar (onetime UK electronics mogul) puts it. The big Faders are just a come-on ..they make you think it’s an Eight-Input MIXER (..like you’d use an SQN, or a Nagra Mixer, or a studio mixing desk, or an old Bang & Olufsen 2000 deLuxe tape machine, or a Revox A700 tape machine..) but they work like a Re-Recording Mixer ..as their printed schematic incontrovertibly shows! So now I’m going to (a) dismantle this absolute waste of cash, and see if I can re-route the Faders into the BIG KNOB circuitry, so that they DO work as actual recording level faders, with the Big Knobs just to set the absolute Gain levels, or else (b) gut and cannibalise the FRC-8 to fit its Faders into some other kit. No wonder Zoom abandoned this contraption ..it PROMISED to be an impressively simpler interface for the F8, but it isn’t. It’s useful only if you’re actually recording to some External Device (backup storage, external audio send) or re-mixing what’s already been Saved. Now all I have to do is re-enable that missing F8 Bluetooth capability (re-download the previous System Update maybe?) so I can go back to using the far better iPad-based ‘Controller’. You think you want the tempting, ‘unobtainable’ FRC-8 Controller? ..No. It’s not salvation ..it’s an abomination!

@ Paul F.. "..The individual track knobs on the F8 are the faders.." indeed they are, so I (stupidly?) thought that the FRC-8 *faders* would be the faders instead of the darned black knobs. "..The black knobs on the FRC-8 have the same function as the 'Menu' knob on the F8.." ..Huh? On my FRC-8 the individual track knobs have the same function as their corresponding black knobs on the F8. And the 'Menu' knob on the FRC-8 has the same function as the 'Menu' knob on the F8. "..The Fader sliders on the FRC-8 have the same function as the individual knobs on the F8.." ..I do wish they did ..that's what I got it for. I've, so far, tried every combination and permutation of pre-fade / post-fade / L/R / Main Out etc, and the physical faders just fade the audio to my cans, but NOT to the SD card recordings. "..They [..the faders..] function just as a broadcast panel would. The trim at the top of a mix console sets the gain that is largely left alone during the show and the faders bring talent in and out as the show progresses and in the case of a film set, provide a mixed L&R track. ." ..Yup, that's what I WANT them to do. But I'm thinking "..just get a set of TRACK-E mics (I have three at present) and don't even think of bothering with faders. ".. I've abandoned the use of L & R tracks and just use the ISO tracks. I don't mix." That's what I mean. Anyway, I'm away again - briefly - and (..if I HAVEN'T thrown it out of the window..) I'll persevere when I get back ..and will persevere with this new nuisance of no Bluetooth after a Factory Reset ..aaaarrrgggh. Richmond, and I shall let you know when I plan to throw it out the window.

"..it could be a good idea to simply do a factory reset of your settings.." ..That's what I did, and it screwed up my Bluetooth, and just about everything else!

Reporting back, after a week and a bit away.. Unless I’m incredibly stupid - which isn’t a stupid idea in itself - it seems that I completely misunderstood the use of the FRC-8 ‘Controller’ ..which I thought (..as it has eight, no; nine, faders on its surface..) that it was a recording MIXER - like an SQN, for example. It seems though, that the FADERS don’t mix during recording (!) but only in post-recording RE-RECORDING - and to some optional external output. The actual MIXING controls are just the duplicate circular KNOBS on the FRC-8, which exactly mimic the eight recording KNOBS on the F8 recorder itself. Although IronFilm says, on the previous page (..about comparing the iPad app with the actual physical FRC-8..) “..if you're just setting and forgetting, then the iPad does very well indeed. If you need to do fast and high precision mixes during scenes, then the physical faders of the F Control are nicer..” ..it doesn’t actually seem to work that way for me. Although the circular knobs on the FRC-8 ‘Controller’ are marked as ‘Trim’ (i.e; overall gain adjustment), and it would APPEAR that the faders go from infinity (no audio) up to 0db or beyond *within the gain parameters set by the Trim knobs*, the only way it actually works for me - and as it’s supposed to work, it seems - is that the KNOBS are for setting incoming signal strength (..what one would expect the faders to do..) and the faders are for re-mixing after the event! Being used to broadcast and mixing (recording) faders on various mixing desks, or on my Soundcraft and other mixers, I thought the FRC-8 faders are for controlling INCOMING audio from mics, etc. Apparently not: each input goes straight to its own track on the F8 ..AT A LEVEL SET BY THE CIRCULAR 'Trim' KNOB ON EACH INPUT.. and can be routed to Left/Right too, and to Master Outputs 1 & 2 (..and to Sub Outputs..) but the FRC-8 controller doesn’t make it EASIER TO DO LIVE MIXES, because all inputs rely on the (stupid) KNOBS ..just as on the F8 itself. So you - we-ell, I - can’t use a couple of hands to live-mix eight inputs with the faders, but need a finger and a thumb on each appropriate KNOB to live-mix! ..Perhaps IronFilm can explain how “.. If you need to do fast and high precision mixes during scenes, then the physical faders of the F Control are nicer..” but they work, for me, only on REPLAY, just like the awkward-to-use ‘virtual teeny faders’ on the screen of the F8 itself. ..Doh!! HOWEVER, Using the Bluetooth iPad app as a controller, the virtual KNOBS don’t each need a finger-and-thumb to turn them, and can be ‘turned’ - onscreen - just by dragging a single finger over a knob - either up or down. So two or three adjacent virtual KNOBS can be simultaneously turned up and down by, say, a thumb and two fingers ..which is a much simpler way to control gain on three inputs than having to turn, say, three adjacent physical knobs using a finger and thumb on each one! (..A restriction as with the FRC-8 FADERS seems to apply on the F8 itself: the virtual faders don’t seem to control input gain WHILE RECORDING, but only in MIXING post-recording. Huh?) The FRC-8 doesn’t seem to have ever been listed, or referred to, by Zoom as a “mixer”, but only as a “Controller”. I’ve tried every permutation I can think of to send Fader-controlled inputs to recording tracks or channels, but the schematics - and unhelpful descriptions and wording - in the various Zoom manuals don’t anywhere clearly state that the “Faders”, whether physical or virtual, do control the input gain WHILE RECORDING. It looks like a fader-based recording mixer, but, apparently, isn’t. So, in summary, both the iPad app and the physical FRC-8 appear to be ‘post-production mixers’ for use with the F8 (all three versions), whose inputs are actually controlled - physically or, alternatively, virtually on the iPad - by the circular 'Trim' KNOBS, one for each input, and not by the FADERS. (Perhaps the Faders work as one would expect when passing THROUGH to an external recording device - I haven’t checked that.) It’s a pity, really - unless IronFilm can explain it better, and differently, than I can. FINALLY, just to check latency with the iPad app ..I find I can’t now connect via Bluetooth since I did an F8 System Reset to see if that would implement the faders of the FRC-8 Controller. It didn’t, but it now seems to have disabled the - hardly documented - invocation of Bluetooth - done previously by holding in the Menu button (on the F8) for several seconds. Now; nothing doing - no Bluetooth connection any more ..aaaarrrggh! ..As the iPad app for controlling things seems to give a better all round implementation - oddly - than the physical FRC-8 Controller, I’m really, really annoyed! Sigh.. (Now away for another week ..more when I return ..if I haven’t thrown it through the window!)

I apologise: you're absolutely right! For some reason I must have had a brain seizure, and thought this was about the superCMIT. My mind's going... Please ignore all that I've written here.

Inspire ..although that article is about 12v and 48v phantom power in general - and some of its history - the only mics mentioned are straightforward non-powered ribbon and dynamic mics, and condenser mics in general. It is a very broad overview. There is no mention of Schoeps' digital mics. Powering options for, for example, Schoeps' CMD42, are quoted as: Powering standard / Valid range AES42, 24 bit / 6-12 V Note that this means that it's not powered by straight 12v or 48v standard phantom power, but by the AES42 (Audio Engineering Society, Standard number 42 "for digitally interfaced microphones") at the 24-bit digital standard. Schoeps says "The connection standard of the CMD 42 [a digital amplifier of theirs for microphones] is AES42, which basically is a combination of AES3 (a non-powered digital standard) plus a 10 V digital phantom power" (my emphasis). You'll see that Wikipedia explains that.. "Digital microphones complying with the AES 42 standard may be provided with phantom power at 10 volts [my emphasis] impressed on both audio leads and ground. This supply can furnish up to 250 mA to digital microphones. A keyed variation of the usual XLR connector, the XLD connector, may be used to prevent accidental interchange of analog and digital devices". NOTE: 10 volts. Do NOT try this with 48 volts.