DjGo Posted December 6, 2012 Report Share Posted December 6, 2012 http://www.betso.eu/files/documents/BETSO_SBOX-1_brochure_EN.pdf I was figuring out where to place my Ambient Lockit on a C300 for an upcoming project, then this comes along. Looks the ticket, small, lightweight.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip Perkins Posted December 6, 2012 Report Share Posted December 6, 2012 Cool--50 hrs on 2 Alks! Not a zillion dollars. Is there a USA dealer? Did you buy one? Wish it had TriLevel, but then not $645 I guess. Good call for C300--hard camera to mount anything on. philp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mlohninger Posted December 6, 2012 Report Share Posted December 6, 2012 Cute! But essentially quite similar size the Ambient Tiny Lockit due to launch in January. The Betso is slightly cheaper, but you gain the transceiver function on the lockit. Competition is good! Betso S-Box: €495 - 75mm x 62mm x 21mm (98mm²) Tiny Lockit (ACN-TL): €660 - 71,5mm x 56mm x 20mm (80mm²) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graham Posted December 6, 2012 Report Share Posted December 6, 2012 It has wordclock Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip Perkins Posted December 6, 2012 Report Share Posted December 6, 2012 Has WC, does not have TriLevel. So was it decided we didn't need sync anymore? philp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Bacon AMPS Posted December 6, 2012 Report Share Posted December 6, 2012 Competition is good! Absolutely. We are the ones that benefit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justanross Posted December 7, 2012 Report Share Posted December 7, 2012 I like Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gertjan Posted December 7, 2012 Report Share Posted December 7, 2012 On the C300 you definitely need Video Sync as well as Timecode. So I still use my Ambient Lockit box on the C300….. But I do wish that Ambient had included Video Sync on their new Tiny Lockit (ACN-TL), It would be useful for smaller Camera’s like C300 and F3, but both need Video Sync. It is a pity that the Sync output of the Betsy only outputs Wordclock. That makes it as useless as the new Tiny Lockit for many Cameras…… Gertjan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DjGo Posted December 7, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 7, 2012 On the C300 you definitely need Video Sync as well as Timecode. So I still use my Ambient Lockit box on the C300….. But I do wish that Ambient had included Video Sync on their new Tiny Lockit (ACN-TL), It would be useful for smaller Camera’s like C300 and F3, but both need Video Sync. It is a pity that the Sync output of the Betsy only outputs Wordclock. That makes it as useless as the new Tiny Lockit for many Cameras…… Gertjan. Yeah, I figured that out.. pity indeed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
callou Posted December 7, 2012 Report Share Posted December 7, 2012 I just did a shoot with c300 and my nomad ,everybody feed by denecke boxes, didn't use video sync, even thought I had no complain from the editor, what problems could this lead into? The shoot was mainly itw with quite long take ( 30 to even 60 min] EU world so pal 25frames/ sec... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip Perkins Posted December 7, 2012 Report Share Posted December 7, 2012 We found the C300 to be pretty stable TC wise in tests, only part of a frame off after 6 hrs or so, BUT this is w/o moving the camera around and in a very stable environment temp wise, and running on an AC adapter (so no reboots for battery swaps). On location I've mostly used an SBT, trilevel and TC. philp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted December 7, 2012 Report Share Posted December 7, 2012 " On the C300 you definitely need Video Sync as well as Timecode. " why ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Bacon AMPS Posted December 7, 2012 Report Share Posted December 7, 2012 We found the C300 to be pretty stable TC wise in tests, only part of a frame off after 6 hrs or so, BUT this is w/o moving the camera around and in a very stable environment temp wise, and running on an AC adapter (so no reboots for battery swaps). On location I've mostly used an SBT, trilevel and TC. Of the last 5 c300 jobs I've worked on, 2 of the 5 cameras had TC issues (same Lockit box). Don't know if this common... but it is annoying. Probably cameras built on a Friday afternoon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimPitot Posted December 7, 2012 Report Share Posted December 7, 2012 What issues Matt? I have been doing multi C300 jobs all year with my SB-3's and had no sync issues? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justanross Posted December 7, 2012 Report Share Posted December 7, 2012 " On the C300 you definitely need Video Sync as well as Timecode. " why ? I was wondering the same thing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Piggott Posted December 8, 2012 Report Share Posted December 8, 2012 " On the C300 you definitely need Video Sync as well as Timecode. " why ? + 1 - I did a 6 week shoot in the summer with a C300 feeding it just TC from an Ambient lockit box with no problems Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Woodcock Posted December 8, 2012 Report Share Posted December 8, 2012 I think I am going to be wrong about my next statement but if someone could explain why that would be great. I thought Video sync was only required if you were using multiple cameras. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Bacon AMPS Posted December 8, 2012 Report Share Posted December 8, 2012 What issues Matt? I have been doing multi C300 jobs all year with my SB-3's and had no sync issues? Hi Tim, it was very odd. It didn't happen often but sometimes the TC value from the lockit would be simply ignored and we'd find the TC value reset and had freerun from 00:00:00. I changed cables a few times but never tracked down the issue. Fortunately we had a digi slate as well. Belt and braces saves the day! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy P Posted December 8, 2012 Report Share Posted December 8, 2012 Hi Tim, it was very odd. It didn't happen often but sometimes the TC value from the lockit would be simply ignored and we'd find the TC value reset and had freerun from 00:00:00. I changed cables a few times but never tracked down the issue. Fortunately we had a digi slate as well. Belt and braces saves the day! Sounds like a lockit box problem, as it was always the same lockit box. Could it be loosing power intermittently and reseting to 00:00:00:00 ?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimPitot Posted December 8, 2012 Report Share Posted December 8, 2012 I've heard of this before, Andy Hewitson had something similar on a C300 with lockit attached. Weird. Oh we'll, crap happens (TM Senator) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted December 8, 2012 Report Share Posted December 8, 2012 " Video sync ... required if you were using multiple cameras. " typically when they are being switched live Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Woodcock Posted December 8, 2012 Report Share Posted December 8, 2012 " Video sync ... required if you were using multiple cameras. " typically when they are being switched live Fair enough thanks Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean ONeil Posted December 9, 2012 Report Share Posted December 9, 2012 " On the C300 you definitely need Video Sync as well as Timecode. " why ? Paging Mr. Wielage . . . paging Mr. Marc Wielage to the Timecode department please . . . . Cheers, Sean O'Neil Brooklyn NYC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Wielage Posted December 9, 2012 Report Share Posted December 9, 2012 I think I am going to be wrong about my next statement but if someone could explain why that would be great. I thought Video sync was only required if you were using multiple cameras. The engineers at Complete Post/Technicolor explained to me that timecode alone will work with one camera. With multiple cameras, the risk is that the timecode phase will drift slightly -- at a sub-frame level -- so that it's not precisely lined up with the first line of video. You might compare this to two pieces of film that get 1 sprocket hole out of sync. They're almost in sync, but still out about 1/96th of a second (1 quarter of a frame), which is extremely noticeable. Only with genlock reference (i.e., video sync) will everything be in absolute sync. When timecode phase starts drifting a little tiny bit, what happens is that some timecode-reading gear gets "confused" and will flip over to the previous frame number or the following frame number. As a result, you get multiple cameras and sound that occasionally and unpredictably go out 1 frame, depending on where the drift leans. If there's absolutely precise video sync and timecode reference, this will never happened. I know of a very famous recent 3D horror film that did not use genlock and timecode reference, and it wasn't noticed until the 11th hour, when the film was conformed and checked. The slight sync error caused massive 3D issues, causing preview audiences to get sick. I believe five or six technicians working 20 hours a day for about 5 days straight had to be employed to make manual changes (at a six-figure expense) to fix the problem. If they had just used proper reference on all cameras, this would have saved them about $150,000 at the end. But that was a "picture problem," not sound per se. But for one-camera shoots, just timecode alone will work OK. I have some experience with the C300 and none with the C500 yet, but what I don't like is that the camera is teeny-tiny and there's no room to bolt anything on it. It's like a very big DSLR. I have no clue how stable it is with longterm timecode jamming; I've used it in both external and in jam modes, and I was told by post that sound was perfect all day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonathan chiles Posted December 9, 2012 Report Share Posted December 9, 2012 Is the quality of the Betso gear up to the likes of Ambient and Denecke? Been wishing Denecke would come out with a little box like this with an LCD.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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