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Not another argument about gun control


Laurence
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It's a bullshit excuse.

What's going on in your life Henchman that makes you so uniformly insulting when you disagree with someone?

I asked whether a person might have the right to be as well armed as the government that rules them to protect against tyranny.

You said, "get real", and made an accusation about conspiracies.

I gave a real world proof of our own government depriving it's citizenry of basic human rights, and noted that you insulted my example but didn't refute it, an ad hominem attack.

I never claimed that second amendment rights could, would, or should have protected Japanese-Americans.

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Do events like the tragedy at Sandy Hook elementary school, not to mention shootings that preceded it, change anybody's mind about gun policy? 50 posts on JWSound suggest not. Nobody changes their mind. Yes, twenty small children died on a Friday morning as their day began at elementary school but don't be depressed... the odds are heavily against that happening again. Maybe a health club or a grocery store or a California Pizza Kitchen or a subway or a baseball game.... but another 20 kids in elementary school? Naaah, that won't happen again. I mean, how many crazy people with easy access to guns can there possibly be?

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For the ones in the anti gun faction, do you turn down jobs if there are guns involved?

More "look over the"

What's going on in your life Henchman that makes you so uniformly insulting when you disagree with someone?

I asked whether a person might have the right to be as well armed as the government that rules them to protect against tyranny.

You said, "get real", and made an accusation about conspiracies.

I gave a real world proof of our own government depriving it's citizenry of basic human rights, and noted that you insulted my example but didn't refute it, an ad hominem attack.

I never claimed that second amendment rights could, would, or should have protected Japanese-Americans.

I don't sugar coat. Bullshit is bullshit.

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What's going on in your life Henchman that makes you so uniformly insulting when you disagree with someone?

I asked whether a person might have the right to be as well armed as the government that rules them to protect against tyranny.

You said, "get real", and made an accusation about conspiracies.

I gave a real world proof of our own government depriving it's citizenry of basic human rights, and noted that you insulted my example but didn't refute it, an ad hominem attack.

I never claimed that second amendment rights could, would, or should have protected Japanese-Americans.

So, your opinion is that those Japanese should have staged an armed revolt?

When really, you know that that isin fact a nonsense example. And that using the whole" tyrannical government" is a pitiful excuse against gun control.

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It's very simple.

Those against stricter gun control are fine with 20 small children dying, just so they can uphold their right to own as many guns and high powered automatic weapons as they want. And they are fine with this happening over and over again.

Nobody has mentioned a word about forbidding gun ownership.

But that's irrelevant to the gun lovers.

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Those against stricter gun control are fine with 20 small children dying, just so they can uphold their right to own as many guns and high powered automatic weapons as they want.

Congratulations, that's surely the most asinine comment ever printed on this forum.

You know what would have prevented this tragedy?

A $200 gun safe.

Irresponsible gun ownership on the part of the mother was just as much a contributing factor as the turd who pulled the trigger.

Sadly for her, she paid a high price for her negligence.

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Exactly...stricter gun laws could have prevented this from happening.

What if his mother was denied a gun license because she had a mentally ill person living in her home? What if she was required to have trigger locks? What if she was required to have the guns locked in a gunsafe? What if she wasn't allowed to have more than 50 rounds of ammunition?

It wouldn't have prevented a hoodlum from mugging you in an alley, but it could have saved 20 little kids.

Congratulations, that's surely the most asinine comment ever printed on this forum.

You know what would have prevented this tragedy?

A $200 gun safe.

Irresponsible gun ownership on the part of the mother was just as much a contributing factor as the turd who pulled the trigger.

Sadly for her, she paid a high price for her negligence.

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As someone who grew up in Belfast in the 70s and 80s and was accustomed to daily bombing, shooting massacres, maiming of women/children/innocents and endless soul searching about the purpose of guns (and the obvious downward spiral of getting hold of a gun to protect oneself against guns) - and now as a parent living in the UK......... I watch the news in USA with horror.

Having travelled to more than 60 countries and spent time getting to know people around our world, my opinion is that my American friends (and all others I have met over the last 40+yrs) appear no more inherently homicidal than anyone else on the planet. We all have moments of 'red mist rage' whatever our cultural background. However, I believe that the ease of availability of guns in any country (and therefore the ability to punctuate or indeed 'close' a grievance with one) leads to massive problems. Which keep on repeating themselves.

I appears from studying the internet/Twittosphere etc…that the more you argue with any country's gun lobby, the more entrenched thier position becomes. Their bottom line defence (in the absence of futher logical debate) appears to inevitably be "we have inalienable right to bear arms. It is enshrined in our constitution."

So…..if you wish to debate it further….get a new angle?

The Guardian (UK newspaper) took the opportunity to examine some FBI stats a few years ago1.

It appears that roughly equal numbers ofAmericans have been killed by fellow Americans in ONE year of domestic gun related homicides (8775 in 2010) as were killed in BOTH Iraq wars AND Afghanistan2 AND 9/113 put together.

Who is terrorising who?

Good luck in your journey to find a balance that keeps all of your citizens safe - gun owners AND (their) children

Have a Happy Christmas. I wish you all good luck and good health and a SAFE 2013.

1 - http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2011/jan/10/gun-crime-us-state#data

2 - http://www.defense.gov/news/casualty.pdf

3 - http://www.c-span.org/pdf/911finalreportexecsum.pdf

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Save time! Pick your favorite color and you don't have to write a response!

The Guardian? Bunch of Foreigners, what do they know about Americans? Generally accepted as a responsible source that's not influenced by US politics.

Defense dot gov about war deaths? All armies cook their stats to lower their own deaths and look better; besides, that's the same government that screwed up Fast & Furious Who'd know better?

C-span??? Boring nerds. Unbiased conduit.

(Please note I deliberately didn't use red and blue. Those colors have already been co-opted to mean other things.)

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Wow, at least I can bow out with a clear conscience.

I wrote:

I never claimed that second amendment rights could, would, or should have protected Japanese-Americans.

The Henchman responded:

So, your opinion is that those Japanese should have staged an armed revolt?

I accused the Henchman of committing an ad hominem attack against my argument.

He responded:

...you know that that isin fact a nonsense example. And that using the whole" tyrannical government" is a pitiful excuse against gun control.

Your rage has unbalanced you to such a degree Henchman, you are suffering from cognitive scotomas.

I bid you peace, and I implore you to avail yourself of a nice prescription for an SSRI.

Best

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Wow, at least I can bow out with a clear conscience.

I wrote:

The Henchman responded:

I accused the Henchman of committing an ad hominem attack against my argument.

He responded:

Your rage has unbalanced you to such a degree Henchman, you are suffering from cognitive scotomas.

I bid you peace, and I implore you to avail yourself of a nice prescription for an SSRI.

Best

Sorry, but all the nonsense examples from 70 years ago, are completely irrelevant. In spite of your desire to make them be relevant.

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Congratulations, that's surely the most asinine comment ever printed on this forum.

You know what would have prevented this tragedy?

A $200 gun safe.

Irresponsible gun ownership on the part of the mother was just as much a contributing factor as the turd who pulled the trigger.

Sadly for her, she paid a high price for her negligence.

Congratulations, that's surely the most asinine comment ever printed on this forum.

You know what would have prevented this tragedy?

A $200 gun safe.

Irresponsible gun ownership on the part of the mother was just as much a contributing factor as the turd who pulled the trigger.

Sadly for her, she paid a high price for her negligence.

Sadly, because of the pro-gun crowds unwillingness to be part of a solution, 20 children paid the price.

As the saying goes "If you're not part of the solution, you are part of the problem".

So, very simply put. Anti-gun control supporters are part of the problem, and have the blood of every one of those children on their hands. You can absolutely claim part of the responsibility.

Even though you won't.

Have a merry Christmas, as I'm sure you will. Because the consequences of the pro-gun crowd will echo for years to come, for 20 families every Christmas.

And as an aside, it's funny that pretty much the same people who are anti-gun control, arevtehnoens who are against affordable healthcare for everyone. Maybe some of these things could have been prevented with easy access to mental healthcare.

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I share the concern. Henchman's lack of respect for others is disturbing. What could have happened in this person's life that causes him to be so bitter and hateful?

His rage seems to affect both his logic and his civility.

Having a point-of-view is healthy. Consistent hostility and disdain toward anyone with an alternate point-of-view is a strong indication of personal issues in need of attention.

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I share the concern. Henchman's lack of respect for others is disturbing. What could have happened in this person's life that causes him to be so bitter and hateful?

His rage seems to affect both his logic and his civility.

Having a point-of-view is healthy. Consistent hostility and disdain toward anyone with an alternate point-of-view is a strong indication of personal issues in need of attention.

Let's hope henchmen does not have access to guns he sounds unhinged

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I guarantee you a psychopath with no access to guns, wouldn't be able to kill 20 small children in the span of a few minutes.

Actually, that very thing happened in China on the same day as the CT killings. Weird timing. A guy went into a school with a knife and killed 20+ people. In China....where the public is not allowed to have guns.

Even as I type this I realize it is an exercise in futility. Everyone has made up their mind on this issue, and I seriously doubt anyone is going to change it. Arguing over it, pointing to statistics...all that does not do anything. Calling people names, dismissing their points, and being an all around grump in any political discussion immediately puts people off, and quite frankly, makes any argument made by a person that tries to convince others to their way of thinking invalid if the person trying to make the point cannot do so in a civil way and would rather use blustery language and insult people.

</rant>

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Actually, that very thing happened in China on the same day as the CT killings. Weird timing. A guy went into a school with a knife and killed 20+ people. In China....where the public is not allowed to have guns.

</rant>

No one was killed in that attack In China please check sources before posting incorrect info http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-20723910

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Back off Henchman. He is direct and a little confrontational but no more so than some others on this forum.

Between wide open gun availability and highly restrictive gun laws a way has to be found, because there are too many people in the USA who profoundly believe in their right to own weapons, if only for the symbolic value. Most of them don't post here but they are out there in great numbers I assure you (many of my relatives among them). I don't agree with them but I also don't think they are all murderous violence-toy nerds either. They share a huge mistrust of the government, and a belief that as adults and citizens they should be allowed to make gun choices themselves. So what do we do now? The American people need to negotiate this with themselves, and no one should think that they will get it all their own way.

philp

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They share a huge mistrust of the government...

I think that's a bit of an over generalization.

I don't own firearms because I think the government is coming for me, I own them because I enjoy shooting them and challenging myself to be a better marksman.

Many of my friends own for similar reasons.

Sure, there's the right wing nutjobs that are arming up for the 'big showdown', but to lump every gun owner into that category I believe is disingenuous.

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I think that's a bit of an over generalization.

I don't own firearms because I think the government is coming for me, I own them because I enjoy shooting them and challenging myself to be a better marksman.

Many of my friends own for similar reasons.

Sure, there's the right wing nutjobs that are arming up for the 'big showdown', but to lump every gun owner into that category I believe is disingenuous.

No lumping here. I'm not talking about hunters, or even avid target shooters, and certainly not about free-lance "militia" types. I'm speaking of people who hold to the symbolic idea that they should be able to defend themselves and feel shut out of government in some way. I'm not condoning any of this, but this is the argument I've heard. I come from a pretty pro-gun family, and this idea is very deeply embedded in American culture, I've found.

philp

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