Question about job duties from a young and somewhat experienced boom op

[ChrisH25]

Alright, so I have searched through the forums, and I have found several topics on dealing with inconsiderate DPs or ADs, but my question stems more from job duties. Also, this is not a pity post; if you guys have to be real, please be real.

I am currently working on a low budget shoot for a feature (aren't they all now?), and I'm working as just the boom op for a production sound mixer that is also (I'm willing to bet) a rookie. Now, I have boomed before, and I understand how to boom, and why it is important to work with the grips and DP as they light a scene, so they can add a flag to cut away boom shadow, and so you know where to be at when they start shooting. With that said, there are no comteks or even a monitor feed for me to hear the production sound mixer, who is set-up next to video assist, so whenever I ask the AC or the DP what my frameline is, I get this annoyed look from them.

That's not the problem; deciding to be a sound man I have developed copious amounts of thick skin and scar tissue. But what has bugged me the most, is what the DP said to me for this one setup: A dolly pan of two actors talking at a bar, with glass mirror shelves setup in the background of the bar.

I moved and worked out where I had to be when they blocked the scene. During the several rehearsal takes, I never once heard from the DP, or AC, or video assist, or even my mixer if I ever showed up in shot or as a reflection. Then during the first take, the director comes out to say that he can see myself, as well as the DP and AC on the dolly when they turn the corner because of the bar mirrors. When we reset to 1, I ask the DP if where I am is acceptable when they  turn the corner, since that is where the crew visibility issue arises. His response was " You're in the shot, and that's your problem to solve, not mine". I had asked him if he could work with me, so I knew where I could be at to record acceptable audio and also be out of the shot. I did not yell, or slack off, I just asked a general question.

So my question is, from this lengthy story/rant, is he right? I moved with them during the blocking, and from what I could see from the occasional LCD camera monitor was that I was not in frame. The lack of communication between the mixer and video assist is what bugs me the most. I know they didn't have comteks, but that the mixer could not get up from laptop to tell me, or even send the PA to tell me, has me annoyed to nth degree.

Right now, I'm thinking about hunting down some basic lighting books so I can recognize problem lights or basic setups. All I know from school and previous experience are kinos/ and 3 pt lighting; right now I move and walk around with the boom during the lighting setups/blocking to see where I need to be at, but I feel like I should learn more.

[studiomprd]

wow...

where to begin??

" a production sound mixer that is also (I'm willing to bet) a rookie. "

one of many!!

that would include the DP, and the Director!

" during the first take, the director comes out to say that he can see myself, as well as the DP and AC on the dolly  "

ok, on that one, I rest my case!!

but wait: "  His response was " You're in the shot, and that's your problem to solve, not mine".  " !!

not much of a team player, either...

" no comteks or even a monitor feed for me to hear the production sound mixer "

a return feed to you is pretty basic, even if radios like Comtech are not available, we mostly believe that headphones are essential to doing your job ... communications from your mixer should be part of that feed

sadly, all this comes along with: " working on a low budget shoot for a feature (aren't they all now?) "

heck, I'm surprised you are getting blocking rehearsals!!

also surprised that the geniuses weren't saving time shooting with multiple camcorders...

" During the several rehearsal takes, I never once heard from the DP, or AC, or video assist, or even my mixer if I ever showed up in shot or as a reflection. " or the Director....

(as you do not mention an operator, I'm guessing that the genius DP was also operating....)

as for asking for frame lines, etc., usually boomers get them from the operator, or the mixer, if the mixer is watching -- and if s/he is watching, that is why!!

sadly, one of the problems with working on shoots like this is that folks are teaching you how movies are not made!

making a movie is a team effort, and it sounds like you are the only one who wants to be a team player.  you may also be the only one there who actually has a clue!

[Jan McL]

Whoa. Everyone who booms has been in this or similar situation. Sorry. You sure got in the line of fire.

1) Timing is everything. At the time you asked the DP for help, your DP had just gotten a major, public dis for his skilz. If he didn't know his camera was in the shot, he couldn't possibly tell you where to be. He took his embarrassment out on you, pure & simple. This is a great lesson to have learned.

2) I'm not a skilled boom op, but I've never, ever asked a DP for frame line or body position. Maybe you can work it out with your mixer, using hand signals. If not that, then deal with the operator or AC. That said, again: timing is everything.

3) In the situation you describe, with the camera in shot, I don't think it reflects on you (pardon the pun) or your team in the least.

Look forward to reading boom op responses to this. Are there many on this forum?

-- Jan

[Guest BobD]

Alright, so I have searched through the forums, and I have found several topics on dealing with inconsiderate DPs or ADs, but my question stems more from job duties. Also, this is not a pity post; if you guys have to be real, please be real.

I am currently working on a low budget shoot for a feature (aren't they all now?), and I'm working as just the boom op for a production sound mixer that is also (I'm willing to bet) a rookie. Now, I have boomed before, and I understand how to boom, and why it is important to work with the grips and DP as they light a scene, so they can add a flag to cut away boom shadow, and so you know where to be at when they start shooting. With that said, there are no comteks or even a monitor feed for me to hear the production sound mixer, who is set-up next to video assist, so whenever I ask the AC or the DP what my frameline is, I get this annoyed look from them.

That's not the problem; deciding to be a sound man I have developed copious amounts of thick skin and scar tissue. But what has bugged me the most, is what the DP said to me for this one setup: A dolly pan of two actors talking at a bar, with glass mirror shelves setup in the background of the bar.

I moved and worked out where I had to be when they blocked the scene. During the several rehearsal takes, I never once heard from the DP, or AC, or video assist, or even my mixer if I ever showed up in shot or as a reflection. Then during the first take, the director comes out to say that he can see myself, as well as the DP and AC on the dolly when they turn the corner because of the bar mirrors. When we reset to 1, I ask the DP if where I am is acceptable when they  turn the corner, since that is where the crew visibility issue arises. His response was " You're in the shot, and that's your problem to solve, not mine". I had asked him if he could work with me, so I knew where I could be at to record acceptable audio and also be out of the shot. I did not yell, or slack off, I just asked a general question.

So my question is, from this lengthy story/rant, is he right? I moved with them during the blocking, and from what I could see from the occasional LCD camera monitor was that I was not in frame. The lack of communication between the mixer and video assist is what bugs me the most. I know they didn't have comteks, but that the mixer could not get up from laptop to tell me, or even send the PA to tell me, has me annoyed to nth degree.

Right now, I'm thinking about hunting down some basic lighting books so I can recognize problem lights or basic setups. All I know from school and previous experience are kinos/ and 3 pt lighting; right now I move and walk around with the boom during the lighting setups/blocking to see where I need to be at, but I feel like I should learn more.

  first,  The DP probably does not give a crap about helping you out. He has his own problems... If it is a low budget gig, he is probably doing without some items as well... These days the only communication we do with the DPs is about what beer they are drinking after the shoot, and where.... Try to introduce yourself and say hello when he is not around the camera, like at lunch... if you do this, when you need to ask a question, pick your moment.... he will be more receptive... Be friends FIRST, then pester him if need be.. During the gig, unless we are directly in the shot, or are about to be (cart and such) they will let us know. But the working out of the shot should be done within YOUR department. There should be headsets on you, headsets on the mixer, and at least a Private Line mic from mixer to you.... My guy wears a  mic to me.... some just use the boom mic.

  DPs these days do not care to converse with the sound dept. They expect you to be able to communicate with your mixer who should be able to communicate with you about where to be and how to work out your own problems... This is how it is on the big shows, might as well get used to it now. He is doing you a favor. 

  As for asking him to help you work out the shot so you can boom it because of reflections, forget that too.... If things get too strange ALA mirrors, and reflective cars for example, go to radio mics, and know how to mount and use them.  The DP was probably wondering why you simply were not wiring the talent.  If for whatever reason you can't, work out the booming on your own in your sound department. Leave the DP and camera guys alone....  at least as much as humanly possible. This relationship will and can change, but only after you have proven that you are not an audio squid.... until that time, keep your distance and do your own job....

  Some might scoff at my advice, but it is sound advice....  Remember, if you are NOT properly equipped, do the best you can with what you have... It is all you can do...  Don't be too hard on yourself. The tons of crap I and many of us own and use, make our hard job more tolerable to perform. Without all that gear, you are really in a corner... just realize that....  Ask  your production  mixer to get something going for your communication, even a 100 ft. duplex cable will help you a great deal, at least you can plug headsets into it, and it's a really cheap rental, probably 3 day week. Then your mixer just needs a way to put a mic on his end... 

Good luck

[ChrisH25]

Doh, I meant to type that I have a headphone monitor, but there is no talkback function, so the Mixer has to yell out aloud across a crowded set.

I also understand that on higher budgeted productions, that I probably should not bug the DP. A bad habit I will break, but I come from the school where the DP is also the camera operator/ 1st AC, because that's how small the production is.

But yeah...

[Guest BobD]

Doh, I meant to type that I have a headphone monitor, but there is no talkback function, so the Mixer has to yell out aloud across a crowded set.

He should never scream out anything across the set... period....

[studiomprd]

" This is how it is on the big shows, "

this is also how it should be on "small" shows, too...

[ChrisH25]

  "DPs these days do not care to converse with the sound dept. They expect you to be able to communicate with your mixer who should be able to communicate with you about where to be and how to work out your own problems..."

I do understand this, and I agree with you. I was not looking for a friend, and I was treating it more as a coworker to a supervisor; as in "if I move to this mark here while you turn there, is that cool?"

In hindsight, I should have tried to find out from the video assist, but seeing has how I had no direct comm with him or my mixer, and the DP and AC were there, I went with the direct contact.But yes, I do agree about the wireless; however I am slightly miffed that the sound mixer does not have any, nor did he decide to rent any.

However, I feel more like a whino just rambling on about the issue.  I do appreciate the responses, and I will remember to gear up more on my side of things; not having duplex cable was not a good sign. The mixer comes more from a music studio  recording scene, and knows his stuff, but I think this is his first feature job.Bumming a quote from one my favorite action films, "You had your whole life to prepare for this moment. What's your excuse?"

[RPSharman]

This is so tough.  In the "old days" we learned lens sizes, composition, and basic filmmaking.  We only needed to communicate regarding frame lines to ask the operator if they planned to pan in/out with an actor, or tilt up/down if someone sits or stands, or if they will adjust for foreground headroom going wide in the background, stuff like that.

These days, the DP is lighting the set and operating the camera, which is typically on a zoom lens.  It's hard to get answers to questions, and with the flexibility of the lenses (film shoots too) minds can be changed mid-stream.  It's hard for us as mixers to plan out recording a scene this way too, which is why we so often find ourselves wiring people just to cover our asses from the unexpected.

My advise is just to muddle through and use what information you have.  If you are "shouted" at by anyone, simply remain calm and state in the nicest way possible that "I was in position to get the best sound possible with the information I have been given."

Robert

[studiomprd]

"  I am slightly miffed that the sound mixer does not have any (wireless), nor did he decide to rent any. "

that goes with : " working on a low budget shoot for a feature (aren't they all now?), "

it also goes with: " The mixer comes more from a music studio  recording scene, and knows his stuff, but I think this is his first (so called) feature job "

sound in the music business is nothing like production sound for a movie (please stop calling this a "feature")...

s/he is way out of their league... 

Robert's advice is sound! (pun intended!)

[old school]

CH25, sorry you are working mostly alone. The job is easier w a mixer helping and team like comrades on the front line. Not always going to happen. The Cameraman is a dick and will always be one most likely. He didn't even see his own reflection? Hard to fathom. Stay cool n keep learning. If books on lighting help then read on but most learning of the craft is done by doing. A real catch 22 if that cultural reference still is alive. It gets better, but it never happens fast enough to get over the BS of days like that one you describe. Hang tough.

CrewC

[Mark LeBlanc]

Another good tip is to sneak a peak if they have a monitor on camera.  I do this all the time and it really helps give you an idea.  I'm working with a first time boom op and he must had the words "lower, lower, lower!!"... That's WHEN the cameras video outputs are working.

[gabi]

Hey Chris,

Check this out:

http://movingmicrophones.ning.com/forum/topics/the-boom-operators-handbook

Inspiring and entertaining...

Goog luck!!

Gabi

[Philip Perkins]

I'm w/Jan on this.  Even a DP who is a good guy would not be in the mood to answer questions after he had just made such a basic mistake in public.  The OP did the right thing by just staying w/the dolly through the next take of the shot, but the DP could be forgiven for thinking that that was a pretty obvious solution.  It used to be that camera operators had to take responsibility for anything in their shots--it was up to them to wave anything unwanted out.  Those days are long over, esp w/ DPs, if not directors shooting now.  On many jobs I work on these days I'm expected to just know where they are and what they see at all times, either by a monitor or by clairvoyance.  Rehearsals are often shot, and hard info about frame lines is in short supply because THEY DON'T KNOW WHAT THEY WILL SHOOT UNTIL THEY SHOOT IT.  This idea of anything goes, "we don't impinge on the freedom of the camera and actors" etc  is DEEPLY embedded in the culture of filmmaking nowadays, for better or worse.  Get used to it, have a plan.  If your mixer won't support you by taking the small amount of trouble to have off-line talkback to you (ridiculous, in my opinion), then work out your problems the best you can on your own, and hopefully the camera dept will start to help you once they see you trying to work with them. 

Philip Perkins

[David Waelder]

If there is a rehearsal, it can sometimes help to wag the microphone around. You want to signal that you are aware that its present location may be problematic and that you're looking for guidance. If he sees you, a savvy operator will give a signal that you're in frame. If he doesn't pick up the clue right away, be more aggressive with the mike location but be sure that you shake it about as a sign that you're not being dense about where the mike can live.

Of course, if the camera operator/DP is determined to be no help, then there may be nothing you can really do.

David

[Zack]

DP/camera crew got pwnd by the director for a reflection, you asked the embarrassed DP on your adjustment, DP found opportunity to vent on you.  That's how I see it... and I've been there too.  Best thing to keep in mind is to keep your cool, you're doing the right thing.... tempers can run high and fast on sets I've found.  I do my best to be the calm collected one still able to smile and crack some jokes at that 13th hour.  People notice good behaviors over time and will love you for it, those that show their melt-downs on set will not have many fans in the end.  Stay strong inside, and perhaps ask your mixer for a little team effort.... your job will make/break him, he should respect your dedication and hard work.

Good luck,

Z

[Sam Mallery]

I'm expected to just know where they are and what they see at all times, either by a monitor or by clairvoyance.

From my experience, clairvoyance isn't requested from sound people, it's expected. Chris's experience sounds like a longer version of the projects I've worked on in the last year, with the exception of having a two person audio team. Usually I'm doing everything... miking people, booming, mixing, recording, often at the same time. Nothing is ever communicated. I keep waiting for a shoot to come up where someone else on set tries to keep me in the loop, but it has yet to happen.

This is to the extreme of being at a location where there are multiple scenes being shot in different areas, often with a 5 minute walk from one location to the next. The gaffer team is clued in to what's going on because the lights all seem to get set up and readied in time. The camera team is in the loop because they're on the move and know where to go and what gear to bring. My job is to provide perfect sound in each location, and to somehow predict what's going to happen next. I've gotten used to it, and in a way, when your psychic abilities are working and you're able to keep up with the ever changing schedule of events, I almost get a kick out of it. Part of getting a kick out of it is how the same problems with communication persist from one production to the next, with completely different sets of people each time.

I very rarely get to catch a glimpse of a monitor. If the DP and their crew are nice folks, sometimes I'll ask about the frame. I've worked with unfriendly DP's as well. In that situation I go back to pure clairvoyance. I always try to get the boom in there as best as I can, but the lavs usually do the brunt of the work.

[studiomprd]

" low budget shoot for a feature (aren't they all now?), "

these beginners (that the OP is working with!) need to get some experience...

and they can make all the same mistakes on a short movie just as well as they can on a feature length movie! so they can learn from their mistakes cheaper and quicker!

[ericwallace]

from one of the rare non-mixer boom ops on here:

In specific cases like this with a hostile dp that's operating, sometimes you need to get on the first ACs good side. When the dp wanders away from the camera ask the first to help you out with a frame line on a certain part. They are (usually) more than happy to oblige. If nobody is willing to help you then you just gotta start by playing it safe with your mic positioning and slowly getting more aggressive. Experience will help you know how safe you need to be.

Also, forget lighting books. You'll pick up most of that on set. Start playing more pool. Being able to intuit angles of incidence is invaluable for dealing with mirrors and other reflections.

[soundtrane]

<Start playing more pool.>

Nice

[Jan McL]

Hi, Eric. I KNEW there had to be at least one boom operator lurking here. Nice to meet you.

Maybe it's time for a story.

At the time, I had only ever boomed while mixing documentaries & for ENG.

Got a call to boom on a TV show for my first mentor in the biz. Yikes. Told him my experience level and he poo-poo'd it, and said not to worry, come on in. My heart was in my throat & feet at the same time.

First scene was 7 people talking. Multiple cameras. The only place for me was the balcony, fully extended. I was sure he couldn't have been able to use much off my mic, but when it was all over he didn't say anything bad. We just kept on keepin' on. The scene sounded great because of all the radios, but I still thought I was gonna die.

A few days later, bunches of people talking around a long line of tables, covered directly overhead with harsh pin lights. Oy! I'd been keeping my mouth shut on set except to ask the AC for (or peek at) the lens. Didn't need frame lines because I'd made it my business while doing ENG work to always know the lens, and I made up my mind to know that I knew where the frame was.

Studying this pin-lighted scene I guess my face must have shown some consternation, because the DP came up from behind and whispered in my ear, "I always leave you a way in." Supremely generous of him.

Studied a few more minutes and by golly, he had left me a way. The move was tricky, but there. The mixer had to drop a plant mic for one seated character, but...

My best advice for a young boom operator is this:

• Keep your mouth shut
  
• Keep your eyes and ears open
  
• Stay focused
  
• Timing is everything
  
• Know your lines & lenses
  

And now added, from Eric (smart):

• Play more pool
  

To finish, I find that the less experienced folks are, the less time & energy they have to be generous and vice versa. That's why -- every time I'm able to be generous on set -- I'm thankful, and a little bit humbly proud.

-- Jan

[studiomprd]

" the DP came up from behind and whispered in my ear, "I always leave you a way in." 

the Pro's usually do,  the DP's and Gaffers, too!!

[Jan McL]

" the DP came up from behind and whispered in my ear, "I always leave you a way in."

the Pro's usually do,  the DP's and Gaffers, too!!

Tempers flying, not enough time for generosity, not imagining the implications of what you do on other departments' work, taking any of the above personally, all indicate lack of experience or are asshole alerts. Either way, good information, LOL.

[Philip Perkins]

Tempers flying, not enough time for generosity, not imagining the implications of what you do on other departments' work, taking any of the above personally, all indicate lack of experience or are asshole alerts. Either way, good information, LOL.

Roger all that and well said.

Philip Perkins

[Jan McL]

Philip