thenannymoh Posted February 3 Report Share Posted February 3 I have never worked in musical theatre... But lately I'm seeing clips of Broadway actors who have two lavs taped to their cheek. Is this simply safety redundancy, or something else? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Immoral Mr Teas Posted February 3 Report Share Posted February 3 Nor me (touch wood), but safety redundancy sounds possible. The other reason could be 'ordinary projection' vs 'belting it out'? Jez Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OB1 Posted February 3 Report Share Posted February 3 Redundancy. For the same reason they do it in live broadcast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Reineke Posted February 3 Report Share Posted February 3 1 hour ago, OB1 said: Redundancy. For the same reason they do it in live broadcast. +1, Redundancy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Documentary Sound Guy Posted February 3 Report Share Posted February 3 So, to deal with potential wireless issues, they use double the number of wireless frequencies? That seems counterintuitive to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wyatt Tuzo Posted February 3 Report Share Posted February 3 Generally, it's so that if a lead actor "sweats-out" a mic mid-performance, the Mixer has something to fall back on. Its typically used for lead rolls which don't allow for downtime to switch mics Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mungo Posted February 4 Report Share Posted February 4 A lav manufacturer recently told me that such musical theatres interpret their lavs as consumables (not the transmitters but the mikes). Sweat and movement, unintentionally taut cables, are so challenging that they have them sent to to service very very often. So having a redundancy during the show makes a lot of sense imho. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip Perkins Posted February 4 Report Share Posted February 4 In truth lavs are a "consumable" or, in movie parlance, and "expendable" in our biz too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Documentary Sound Guy Posted February 4 Report Share Posted February 4 1 hour ago, Philip Perkins said: In truth lavs are a "consumable" or, in movie parlance, and "expendable" in our biz too. Are they? They are certainly fragile. But most of us charge expendables in a different way that we do equipment rentals. I was under the impression that most, if not all, mixers charge lavs as equipment rentals, not as expendables. I've never heard of billing lavs as expendables. In my experience, most of my lavs do last multiple shows, even multiple years, before they inevitably wear out. When they do, I usually L&D them, which is a process for replacing and repairing permanent equipment, not part of an expendable budget. I'd like to hear more about this ... is treating lavs as part of the expendable budget something that legitimately happens? Is it a common practice? If so, I would love to hear from mixers who are doing this, and how the conversation goes with the PM around how to bill it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip Perkins Posted February 5 Report Share Posted February 5 Yes they are, and production needs to understand this. It's bad enough that I have to allow actors to mess with expensive wireless TX and Villagers to drop, mess with and lose expensive IFB RX. Lav mics are subject to all sorts of stress when on talent, and eventually they will break. That is predictable and production needs to pay for that breakage the same as it does for camera, grip, electric gear props and etc.. I make clear that over a long job there will be lav mic damage and it will be billed to them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Documentary Sound Guy Posted February 5 Report Share Posted February 5 Paying for breakage is a different situation than treating them as expendable. I like the idea of treating them as expendable, which is why I'm asking about it. But I've never had a PM that is willing to buy x number of lavs in advance on the basis of their fragility (with the exception of specific dangerous situations). They typically expect to pay for repairs, not for disposable mics. I don't think I've had to deal with a PM who wasn't willing to pay for a repair / replacement when needed — I think they generally understand that wear and tear means some level of repair / maintenance. In my expendables conversation with a PM, I'll negotiate a budget on the basis of going through a certain amount of tape, batteries, straps, etc. every week / month / episode. Typically, this comes out of the department's petty cash, or sometimes I pay for it and get reimbursed. If a lav gets broken, I expect to use the L&D process (i.e. I fill out paperwork and have to get it approved as a special expense). Are you saying you are able to include lavs in the expendables budget? Or are you just setting expectations that lavs repair will be a production expense when they fail? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edward chick Posted February 5 Report Share Posted February 5 Repair fees for most lavs today can cost almost as much as buying a new one. Sometimes the repair vendor will tell you that up front. It makes sense to me to consider them as expendable for a long job. I can understand why foh mixers would want a dual mic on key talent for a live show. Broadcast networks do it all the time even in studio which is pretty much a controlled environment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Steel Posted February 5 Report Share Posted February 5 I do a lot of different types of work as a staff engineer. Part of that is live, including musical theatre. Absolutely the second mic is for redundancy. And as others have said, it is almost never the RF side of things (if your coordination is good), but the mics getting sweated out and the cables getting intermittent or being ripped out of connectors. We are not a big time venue, but some of the shows we do have very large casts (I have had a couple where we have 48 channels of wireless for the show). And we often bring in a few top artists for principal roles. It was one of these that I had my most memorable experience with a principal sweating out a mic. I had to cheat off other actors where I could for a scene or two until he went off stage long enough for the backstage tech to swap his mic. Since then I have doubled up mics when the situation called for it (like, a character that barely left the stage the entire show) and I had the equipment so that could. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mungo Posted February 5 Report Share Posted February 5 He (the guy from the lav company) also told me that they usually provide a new lav instead of repairing one that's been sent in. They don't charge the full price, give a quite high discount then Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalton Patterson Posted February 5 Report Share Posted February 5 I worked on a performance with 21 talent. Principle talents mic went down. If I had 2 it would have solved the issue. I ended up swapping him with a talent with less dialogue. The stage manager went out onstage and stopped the show, It was a wifi audio technica Rx/Tx that went out of sync but if I put on 2 it would have solved the problem. They were already hot swapping the wireless packs as it was, so I believe that was where the pack got disconnected. Also it was just children’s theater but still. Lesson learned. It was good to experience the failure side of what you are all discussing as a learning experience not a “ never work in this town again” experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.