Zoom F8 Mixer/Controller Options

[boydell200]

Hi there,

 

Seems I've just caught up with the Zoom F-Control FRC-8 being discontinued and impossible to get hold of second hand... odd in this day and age!

 

What alternatives are people using? I can't seem to find anything on the topic.

 

Doing a short film that I'd like the option to create a stereo mix on the fly. Are people simply using the Auto-mix and do they find this works instead?

 

Thanks.

[IronFilm]

It's a great tragedy they haven't given us a FRC-8 mk2 and instead have flat out discontinued it 😞

 

You could mix with the iPad (and/or the knobs on the F8n itself), a "good enough" solution for a low budget short film. 

 

Or the next step up, would be to go old school with an analog mixer in front of it, something such as the PSC Solice Mini would be very nice indeed (and one of the more affordable good options. Cheaper than a Cooper or Sonosax or similar mixer. However this would be just as hard to track down as a FRC-8). 

[Trey LaCroix]

On 8/15/2024 at 4:15 AM, IronFilm said:

You could mix with the iPad (and/or the knobs on the F8n itself), a "good enough" solution for a low budget short film. 

I wouldn’t wish having to actually mix with those knobs on my worst enemy.

[The Documentary Sound Guy]

4 minutes ago, Trey LaCroix said:

I wouldn’t wish having to actually mix with those knobs on my worst enemy.

Been there, done that, made myself my own worst enemy.

In other news, I have an F8 for sale...

[Philip Perkins]

Knobs too weenie.  Outboard analog mixer=no latency for an active mix.

[DHB]

I mix with an iPad connected via Bluetooth. The 'imitation' - or virtual - faders on the iPad screen are just like real faders, but flat, of course!

 

There seems to be no noticeable Bluetooth lag, you can use several fingers at a time (..just like real faders..) ..w-a-a-a-y better than twiddling those teeny F8 knobs. And the iPad's almost weightless, can be positioned anywhere, and the faders never 'stick'. 

[codyman]

I picked up a PSC Solice Mini for $500 on eBay.  On 8 track recorders, I usually do mono mix on T1, B, then Lavs 1-6.  The PSC also has 3,474% better limiters than an F8.

[Paul F]

4 hours ago, DHB said:

I mix with an iPad connected via Bluetooth. The 'imitation' - or virtual - faders on the iPad screen are just like real faders, but flat, of course!

 

There seems to be no noticeable Bluetooth lag, you can use several fingers at a time (..just like real faders..) ..w-a-a-a-y better than twiddling those teeny F8 knobs. And the iPad's almost weightless, can be positioned anywhere, and the faders never 'stick'. 

I saw someone using the iPad with their bag. They had it rigged that it somehow was at the front of the bag at a 45 degree angle for easy visibility. I don't know what they used to get it set up this way.

[The Documentary Sound Guy]

Probably this?  https://www.trewaudio.com/product/sound-guys-solutions-tm-1/

 

[DHB]

I spoke with the Zoom UK rep yesterday, and he said that Zoom were surprised by the slow - or almost non-existent - take up of the FRC-8 mixer, and so just didn't commission any more to be made. (Zoom designs and sells, but doesn't actually *manufacture* products.) 

 

So that was it ..no more made; simple as that.

[IronFilm]

So sad it wasn't more popular, it was one of the best things about the F Series ecosystem. (at least I'm lucky enough to have one for myself!)

[DHB]

Well, I've just bought one from AliExpress - they claim to have about 191 of them - and I'll wait and see if it arrives. £386.46 ..which is about US$510.80 or NZ$819.19 (..so says my iPhone Currency Converter). Here's the link, for anyone interested: https://tinyurl.com/FRC-8m1xer

 

[IronFilm]

An over three year old seller on AliExpress, with 97.8% positive reviews (455 of them), that bodes well for you, I hope it arrives!

[DHB]

Watch this space...

[DHB]

Shipping update

Left from departure country/region

Aug 31, 01:09 GMT

Customs clearance complete

Aug 30, 13:27 GMT

Leaving from departure country/region

Aug 30, 13:00 GMT

Customs clearance started

Aug 30, 11:27 GMT

Handed over to line-haul

Aug 28, 21:53 GMT

Left from departure country/region sorting center

Aug 28, 19:26 GMT      <  Start here and work upwards...

 

So any day now I should get a Customs invoice to pay..

[The Immoral Mr Teas]

Still watching the space ... !

 

Keep us informed, thanks!

[DHB]

Customs update

Customs clearance complete

Sep 2, 11:20 GMT

 

(That's Customs within the UK ..still waiting for the Customs Invoice..)

[DHB]

Delivery update:

Out for delivery

Sep 3, 08:59 GMT

Received by local delivery company

Sep 2, 21:32 GMT

 

I really don't know if it'll actually be DELIVERED to my door today, or if it's just been added to some delivery rota, and will actually be delivered - as on the estimate - on September 8th.

 

If it IS delivered today ..I'll post something here later today ..assuming that I've been in to accept delivery, and it hasn't been whisked back to its depot for another try some other day ..who knows? ..UPS? ..DHL? ..Royal Mail? ..Mother Hubbard and her Pickup Truck?

[DHB]

Well whadya know: it arrived a few minutes ago ..by Royal Mail (possibly from some stock held in the UK West Midlands).

 

I opened the box - see pics - and it's thoroughly genuine; maybe the last ones were stockpiled by a Chinese seller, or maybe this was stock held by the Chinese manufacturer after Zoom cancelled further manufacture ..I dunno ..but it seems absolutely genuine. I'll try it tomorrow, and compare with using an iPad. Solidly made; I'd say it's the genuine article. See the link above if you're interested ..or wait till tomorrow's test and report.

[IronFilm]

Congratulations!! I've been following this thread with great interest. 

 

I do wonder what's the real story behind this, excess official stock that just never got shipped from China to the retailers after the F Control was cancelled, or maybe the contracted manufacturer just kept on making them on the downlow (maybe they lost all contracts with Zoom and don't care about torpedoing their relationship with Zoom?? As if this is unofficial, I'm sure Zoom can't be happy about this), or maybe the story is something else entirely different. 

[The Immoral Mr Teas]

Thanks DHB for the link and the updates.

Of course it's genuine ... if those rumours of donkey's years ago were true of Chinese knockoffs of Nagra recorders (the 4 series) had any truth in them I wish I had found one of them. But of course they don't exist. Hope the controller proves a worthy companion (I have an F8 too but I've never had any need to mix down on it).

J

[DHB]

1    Just as a new date & time need to be entered in the F8 if it’s not been used for a day (poor non-volatile memory, or result of low battery level?) so the F8 forgets the connection to the FRC-8 when the F8 is switched off. You must go to the F8’s Menu and choose ‘USB’ and ‘Connect’ to re-establish the USB connection ..after lunch, say. (Turning off the F8 also switches off the FRC-8, which needs to be switched on separately, with its own ON/OFF button. It runs on four internal AA cells, or an external power supply, or an external USB connection, but can NOT be powered from the F8's USB connection.)

 

2    As soon as the two devices are connected, the FRC-8 immediately gives access to all F8 controls - Menu, Faders, Trim pots / Pan pots, etc. This is SO much simpler than - on the F8 itself - turning the large Menu knob to select the onscreen teeny knob to select the relevant Input, then PRESSING the Menu knob to select the item your cursor’s landed on - e.g; the Trim/Pan pot - then either turning the Menu knob to Pan that input, or pressing it again to change that input knob’s function to Trim gain, and then turning the actual knob to adjust Trim ..etc, etc.

 

Using the FRC-8 the Faders and Trim/Pan knobs are always separately accessible, and to choose Trim or Pan - on the individual combined Trim/Pan knobs -  just momentarily press the separate ‘TRIM/PAN’ selector button on the FRC-8 so that either its TRIM or its PAN teeny LED glows, and then choose whichever Trim/Pan knob you want, and just twist it to operate EITHER its Trim gain or its Pan function. So it’s one - or two - step(s) fewer to get the function which you want ..either Trim or Pan. [But it's simpler still with the separate Trim and Pan controls on the Bluetooth-connected 'virtual' Controller app of an iPad (..or iPhone or Android phone.]

 

And, of course, same with the faders ..you don’t have to select a Fader with the Menu knob, as you do on the F8 ..just simply slide the FRC-8's physical fader [..as when using the virtual faders on a Bluetooth-connected iPad].

 

Of course, the iPad app has the advantage of individual L/R Panning horizontal sliders ..which can be even MORE convenient, as one can see on the iPad screen BOTH the Trim settings AND your chosen L/R Pan settings simultaneously onscreen!

 

> So far, I’m beginning to think that maybe the iPad is a better control surface than the FRC-8 ..but today’s been rather hectic, and so I’ll have to finish this appraisal tomorrow. Sorry! <

 

Pic 1:  Full F8 menus shown - and easy to read - on the Bluetooth-connected iPad 'virtual' version of the Controller (..resting on top of the USB-connected physical FRC-8)

Pic 2:  Separate 'virtual' Gain & Pan controls on the iPad version, unlike the 'combined use' knob on the physical FRC-8 ..and more complex 'combined use' knobs on the F8 itself.

Pic 3:  Easier-to-use separate controls on the iPad version ..SEPARATE controls are NOT available on the physical FRC-8 controller.

 

[DHB]

More appraisal..

 

3   Weight of my iPad mini (5th generation) using software version 15.5                             ..300 grams  =  10.5 ounces

     Weight of my all metal (and plastic fader knobs) new Zoom FRC-8 with 4x AA cells     ..1110 grams  =  39 ounces

 

4   SETTINGS AND MENUS:  The FRC-8 has NO SCREEN of its own, but does have LEDs for fader levels.

 

     The Zoom F8 iPad app is ALL screen, so shows all relevant knobs & faders, PLUS a large screen display (depending on the size of your phone(!) or iPad) of several - but not ALL - Menu options. For example, there seems to be no Zoom F8 SYSTEM menu available (that I’ve so far found) on the iPad, but PHANTOM voltage & input assignment IS effortless via the iPad by just tapping the relevant input’s PFL virtual button.

 

     The FRC-8 - when connected via USB - disables the iPad’s control surface if the iPad app has been enabled (via Bluetooth), but the Bluetooth connection itself is NOT lost ..and can be re-instated just by disabling the FRC-8’s USB connection in the F8’s Menu. The MENU button on the FRC-8 displays the usual F8 Menu on the teeny screen of the F8 itself (..remember: the external FRC-8 controller has NO SCREEN of its own!) ..So pressing any PFL key on the FRC-8 brings up - on the tiny F8 screen! - PHANTOM, LIMITER options, etc, and these may be scrolled through by using the main Menu knob on EITHER, or BOTH, the FRC-8 or the ‘host’ F8 itself.

 

All these settings, though, are FAR EASIER to use on the BIG SCREEN of the iPad app, than invoking the main F8 Menu, using, say, the FRC-8, and then scrolling through the options on the F8’s own teeny screen.

 

5   It’s important to remember that the FRC-8 HAS NO XLR - or similar - INPUTS of its own; it’s just a ‘front end’ ..a way of sending messages.. to an F8 recorder. It just sends signals down a USB cable to the F8’s own firmware, so there are no pre-amps connected to the FRC-8’s physical faders: it’s just a way to remotely - we-ell, the length of a USB-A-to-Micro-USB cable - control an F8 using physical faders and extra buttons, instead of twiddling the teeny, and sometimes triple or quadruple action, knobs on the F8 hardware.

 

I don’t have the time right now - I’m really busy for a week - to see if the FRC-8 will connect to a Zoom H6 or H8 to provide similar capabilities ..but that’s probably overkill, and not a sensible economic proposition, and the messages which the FRC-8 sends may be tailored exclusively to the F8 ..I dunno. It may be hackable - like video enthusiasts hacked Canon cameras’ firmware to provide extra capabilities with their ‘Magic Lantern’ overlay software - but I don’t (yet) know.

 

> More to follow next week, if you’re really interested, but ..as before.. I think that I’m preferring, at present, the almost weightless iPad app option, which has a full-screen display of pretty much everything you’d want to change or adjust ..and COSTS NOTHING if you already have an iPad (or smartphone)! <

[IronFilm]

8 hours ago, DHB said:

I don’t have the time right now - I’m really busy for a week - to see if the FRC-8 will connect to a Zoom H6 or H8 to provide similar capabilities 

It won't. 

 

8 hours ago, DHB said:

> More to follow next week, if you’re really interested, but ..as before.. I think that I’m preferring, at present, the almost weightless iPad app option, which has a full-screen display of pretty much everything you’d want to change or adjust ..and COSTS NOTHING if you already have an iPad (or smartphone)! <

Depends on the scenario, if you're just setting and forgetting, then the iPad does very well indeed. If you need to do fast and high precision mixes during scenes, then the physical faders of the F Control are nicer. 

 

Or what if you wish to be able to mix just by feel without looking down at your control surface while you keep your eyes focused on the video monitor(s)? Then the F Control is vastly preferable to the iPad. 

[The Immoral Mr Teas]

DHB said :

Weight of my all metal (and plastic fader knobs) new Zoom FRC-8 with 4x AA cells     ..1110 grams  =  39 ounces

 

A bonus in my eyes. I'd not have thought it a substantial metal thing (shame they're not P+G faders but I guess that would eightfold the price!) but it makes it far more desirable (to me) that it is.

Iron Film, am I mistaken thinking this also controls the F4 and F6 (and the n / non-n versions of all)?

 

Jez