albfree Posted July 19, 2012 Report Share Posted July 19, 2012 Newbie needs some help. Have been asked to hardwire 8 speakers. Scratch track to camera. Producer just informed me I need to also send mics to PA system. I have never used 788. Picking it up from rental house tomorrow. Is this possible? What's the best way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carbonhobbit Posted July 19, 2012 Report Share Posted July 19, 2012 Hire somebody that knows how to use it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Vesterskov Posted July 19, 2012 Report Share Posted July 19, 2012 Hire somebody that knows how to use it. +1 Or maybe even read the manual? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RPSharman Posted July 19, 2012 Report Share Posted July 19, 2012 Read manual to learn how to use automix function. Then send mix from outputs to camera and speaker. Sounds pretty easy, but it's not. I hope it goes well for you. 8 mics is a lot to deal with for a newbie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Wielage Posted July 19, 2012 Report Share Posted July 19, 2012 When you say "have been asked to hardwire 8 speakers," do you mean 8 separate outputs, or are there 8 speakers in the venue, all carrying the same thing? The 788 has six routable analog outputs into which you can select anything you want (plus AES digital outputs that duplicate 4 of them). Eight distinct outputs are not possible, but you could split the outputs if you need to. A little more information would be helpful. Is this a conference at which 8 different people are speaking? Automix would be a possibility, if there's a chance they might overlap each other without warning. I would spend at least 6-7 hours sitting down with the machine and going through the manual from start to finish before starting a project like this. The 788 is a fairly straightforward machine, but the routing and input options, plus the menu selections, are fairly daunting if you haven't used it (or the 744t) before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_bollard Posted July 19, 2012 Report Share Posted July 19, 2012 Hope you're not trying to cable eight people on Lavs to the 788. Will wind up as a knitting class Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
albfree Posted July 19, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 19, 2012 Wielage and Sharman, thanks for being helpful. It is 8 seperate people on a panel speaking to an audience. Thanks again for your constructive comments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Toline Posted July 19, 2012 Report Share Posted July 19, 2012 Newbie needs some help. Have been asked to hardwire 8 speakers. Scratch track to camera. Producer just informed me I need to also send mics to PA system. I have never used 788. Picking it up from rental house tomorrow. Is this possible? What's the best way. I would look at renting a Shure 8 in auto mixer. You can send the direct outs or the mono out to a 788 and to the camera & PA system input. A line level 1x4 splitter will help with multiple output feeds. Eric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason porter Posted July 19, 2012 Report Share Posted July 19, 2012 I think if you rent from a pro audio shop, they would set it up for you so all you have to do is plug in the wired lavs, set levels and hit record. Of course, if shit hits the fan... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toy Robot Posted July 19, 2012 Report Share Posted July 19, 2012 Questions like this make me wish this was a members-only board with mandatory yearly dues in the +$100 range. Honestly, RTFM and do the best you can, or tell the producer to hire a pro like he/she should have done in the first place. Producers hiring obviously unqualified people to save money get what they deserve. P.S. It's worth noting that I think we should all step outside our comfort zones a bit and push ourselves to learn new equipment and processes, but this is beyond that. You must first know the basics of your profession before you can begin those journeys. If you wanted to be a martial artist, for example, this would be like sparring for the first time with Bruce Lee. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisnewton Posted July 19, 2012 Report Share Posted July 19, 2012 Take Eric's advice. if you can't get hold of an automix type device, at least get a mixer as your front end. A Mackie would be fine. Lots of routing options so you can send an aux feed to the PA system. 8 open mics can be a feedback nightmare. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graham Posted July 19, 2012 Report Share Posted July 19, 2012 2 things most likely to burn you are input and output routing. Make sure you are recording pre fade and sending post fade. Make sure your pre fade tracks are isolated to the channels(A-H) and you are not recording more than one input per channel. If your new and the equipment is new to you there are to many possible ways to get burnt for any of us to address. Keep it simple. I think auto mix is the icing on the cake at this point and your in for a bellyache as it is. You will also be contending with bleed from the PA system as well as feedback. Get some kind of outboard EQ or a feedback destroyer which will be another challenge if you have never dealt with this before. Keep the speakers away from your discussion panel and keep the volume as low as possible through the PA. I am passingly familiar with doing events like this and if you are new and one manning it, I am sorry for the stress and sphincter tightening you will experience. PS. Get a mixer as others have suggested or at least a cl8. If you leave all the mics open you will have a collasal disaster Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted July 19, 2012 Report Share Posted July 19, 2012 " 8 mics is a lot to deal with for a newbie. " 8 lav mics to a PA system is too much to deal with for a newbie. you are outside your skill and comfort zones on this, I suspect... automixer to feed PA, protected by a proper feedback killer is SOP, and one needs to know how to set these up. better as a two person gig, with the OP as #2, and thus learning from the properly experienced #1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
albfree Posted July 19, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 19, 2012 Let me clarify something real quick. By newbie I mean I've been doing this for 7 years, not 35. I own a 552 and yadda yadda and have plenty of amazing national clients. I took on a job as a favor for a friend who had to bail at the last minute, with gear and a scenario I'm not familiar with. I'm up for the challenge. Forgive me for asking a simple question. To those of you who are too cool to remember not knowing every little esoteric thing I'm sorry, I didn't mean to offend you with my simpleton question. To the others who have taken the time to answer in a thoughtful constructive way, thank you, I really appreciate your time and patience, you represent what this board should be about. And yes for the last 3 days I've been RTFM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Gilbert Posted July 19, 2012 Report Share Posted July 19, 2012 The basic workings of a 788, the main piece of kit on your upcoming job isn't 'every little esoteric thing' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted July 19, 2012 Report Share Posted July 19, 2012 PA sound is way different from typical Production Sound... BTW, be prepared to find out the 8 lav's are not all they'll want. as in: "Oh By the Way you need to..." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toy Robot Posted July 19, 2012 Report Share Posted July 19, 2012 Let me clarify something real quick. By newbie I mean I've been doing this for 7 years, not 35. I own a 552 and yadda yadda and have plenty of amazing national clients. I took on a job as a favor for a friend who had to bail at the last minute, with gear and a scenario I'm not familiar with. I'm up for the challenge. Forgive me for asking a simple question. To those of you who are too cool to remember not knowing every little esoteric thing I'm sorry, I didn't mean to offend you with my simpleton question. To the others who have taken the time to answer in a thoughtful constructive way, thank you, I really appreciate your time and patience, you represent what this board should be about. And yes for the last 3 days I've been RTFM. Your original post did not give any of this information. 7 years? Newbie? I think you need to give yourself a lot more credit. If you've been doing this for 7 years and you have national clients, then you should be firmly in the realm of 'professional'. Try re-reading your original post and see why people think you're in over your head. You typed it like a Day #1 noob, and in particular, you said: Have been asked to hardwire 8 speakers. Scratch track to camera. Producer just informed me I need to also send mics to PA system. So you're calling microphones speakers when you say 'hardwire 8 speakers'? Can you see why people (myself included) didn't think you were up to it? Try to clarify your postings and people might give you real, useful feedback. Best of luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted July 19, 2012 Report Share Posted July 19, 2012 thanks Alex my first reading was also connecting 8 PA speakers my previous posts stand! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angelo Waldron Posted July 19, 2012 Report Share Posted July 19, 2012 Auto mixer Be ready for them to ask for 1 or 2 handheld wireless to pass around for 'Question & Answer" time. Is it really necessary to record all those channels ISO? Send camera mono feed.. they will appreciate it later. OH.... and a lot of mic cable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonO Posted July 20, 2012 Report Share Posted July 20, 2012 There is a very good auto mix function in the 788t (as long as the firmware is up to date.) There's no reason to rent a standalone unit. If possible, make sure that the PA speakers are in front of the mic's- not facing them. -Jon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Wielage Posted July 20, 2012 Report Share Posted July 20, 2012 These panel-discussion cases are tricky. I would agree than an automixer could help considerably, though they can be fooled in cases where the on-stage people sit close together, and there's some stray speech getting into another microphone. Lavs compound the problem (vs. directional desk microphones). I also agree that getting a feedback-reduction device (like the Sabines or dbx's) can do a world of good. If you connect that from the mono output of the mixer or the 788, you can still record 8 unaffected isos while creating a usable mono mix. Years ago, I occasionally did it with only an outboard EQ, and it was a nightmare. The Sabines are a lot more precise and surgical in terms of notching out the feedback. I'd also advise that several rehearsals and tests will be necessary, and be prepared to move the loudspeakers around if necessary. JonO above has excellent advice; I'm amazed by the number of conferences I see where they try to put the on-stage people in front of the speakers, instead of vice-versa. I'd rather have the speakers two rows into the audience than on the stage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_bollard Posted July 21, 2012 Report Share Posted July 21, 2012 I would consider outsourcing the PA component, with auto mixer, and take your record splits from that. Depending on the size of the hall effectively managing a PA can be tricky. A point to consider too is that your record levels may not be where your PA levels need to be; so it's important that the recorder is 'downstream' from the PA mixer - for obvious reasons. Also, if your get a PA guy to look after that side then you can concentrate on getting the recording right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wandering Ear Posted July 21, 2012 Report Share Posted July 21, 2012 Your original post did not give any of this information. 7 years? Newbie? I think you need to give yourself a lot more credit. If you've been doing this for 7 years and you have national clients, then you should be firmly in the realm of 'professional'. Try re-reading your original post and see why people think you're in over your head. You typed it like a Day #1 noob, and in particular, you said: So you're calling microphones speakers when you say 'hardwire 8 speakers'? Can you see why people (myself included) didn't think you were up to it? Try to clarify your postings and people might give you real, useful feedback. Best of luck. I'm guessing by speakers he means people speaking on stage, ala 8 speakers meaning 8 people. I agree the op could've been a lot more informative to get the information he is looking for. A lot of good info has been posted. Personally I hate these kind of gigs, multiple lavs through a pa system can be incredibally difficult at times. Hopefully your room isn't too bright. Good luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taylormadeaudio Posted July 22, 2012 Report Share Posted July 22, 2012 Hope you're not trying to cable eight people on Lavs to the 788. Will wind up as a knitting class Hahahahaha! Thanks Chris for that visual! I almost busted a take reading that! ~tt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RPSharman Posted July 22, 2012 Report Share Posted July 22, 2012 Boy, the responses on this forum are geeting a bit snarky. The short answer is that live sound reinforcement is WAY different than production sound recording. Perhaps the OP is a noob regarding live sound. I don't know that I'd like to take on a task like this. Robert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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