JonG Posted January 5, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 5, 2013 old school, thank you for your input. if you read the thread earlier I mention that I am LOOKING for peoples PERSONAL choices, following up the Senators own grumblings. I am sure this subject has been discussed at some point, though I can only find posts about (short) shotguns, and since so many of you are full of experience I would naturally be interested in your OPINIONS. That said, what do you like about your chosen favorite long shotguns? What puts them ahead of others? Does the Sanken CS-3e and CMIT 5U really have that much more of a throw than your average short shotgun? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gpiegari Posted January 5, 2013 Report Share Posted January 5, 2013 Off-axis rejection, particularly in the low end, is what makes the CS-3 shine. Also it's lack of proximity effect. It shines in digging a voice out of a noisy space and does a great job in long reverberant spaces. It sounds a little on overly sibilant females, and it's self noise is pretty high. I must state that I have an older CS-3 and I believe the "e" model improved the noise spec. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old school Posted January 5, 2013 Report Share Posted January 5, 2013 Hey Jon, I did read your OP but I was reacting to this type topic more than your question. My bad. I like that Sennheiser builds bullet proof mics with a long proven history in the field of sound for picture. I am still in awe at how well it works in the worst conditions. The Schoeps CMIT is the best sounding of the lot IMO, but that doesn't matter in many conditions. The Sankens I have the least time with and it is fine but I wouldn't sell the 70 for one and I have never liked the Neumann long mics as a boom op or mixer. They sound too muddy to me. CrewC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip Perkins Posted January 5, 2013 Report Share Posted January 5, 2013 An 816 (or 70) in the hands of a tall, strong, committed and knowledgeable boom op who gets to see a rehearsal before the hero take is shot is still the most formidable weapon a mixer has for exterior dialog. But it is not a mic for bag-drivers (unless you are really buff), smaller people (many of my boom ops just could not handle it in wind on a long pole), the inexperienced (it will really test your ability to follow talent and stay consistently on mic) or the uncommitted (it is a 2 ft long brass pipe, right?). The CS3e does nearly as well most of the time and is usable by lesser humans than Boom Titans. I still have my 82i, but the CS3e does a bit better for me and is much easier to deal with as a bag-driver. But watching and listening to what a great (big) boom op can do with an 816 on an exterior scene is a wonderful life-affirming experience for a mixer, believe me. phil p Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonG Posted January 5, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 5, 2013 Awesome, thanks for the info. Relating personal experience with your opinion on your favorite mics are what makes opinions worth listening to in my opinion. If anyone wants to weigh in on their favorite mics and the reasons why you like them over others, please do! Best Regards, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OmahaAudio Posted January 5, 2013 Report Share Posted January 5, 2013 An 816 (or 70) in the hands of a tall, strong, committed and knowledgeable boom op who gets to see a rehearsal before the hero take is shot is still the most formidable weapon a mixer has for exterior dialog. That statement is wonderfully specific and should, all by itself, answer many questions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old school Posted January 6, 2013 Report Share Posted January 6, 2013 An 816 (or 70) in the hands of a tall, strong, committed and knowledgeable boom op who gets to see a rehearsal before the hero take is shot is still the most formidable weapon a mixer has for exterior dialog. But it is not a mic for bag-drivers (unless you are really buff), smaller people (many of my boom ops just could not handle it in wind on a long pole), the inexperienced (it will really test your ability to follow talent and stay consistently on mic) or the uncommitted (it is a 2 ft long brass pipe, right?). The CS3e does nearly as well most of the time and is usable by lesser humans than Boom Titans. I still have my 82i, but the CS3e does a bit better for me and is much easier to deal with as a bag-driver. But watching and listening to what a great (big) boom op can do with an 816 on an exterior scene is a wonderful life-affirming experience for a mixer, believe me. phil p That is the all true Mr P. The human element is as key as the piece of gear. What is true for a LA cart based mixer working w a boom pro is not always true for the bag masters of the world. No one's POV is right other than the end buyer's to suit his/her needs. The good news is more options than ever. It wasn't always this way as you well know. CrewC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arovinsky Posted January 6, 2013 Report Share Posted January 6, 2013 According to Sanken, the CS3e IS a long shotgun. It's definitely my favorite for outdoors and wide/tight situations. I do love the sound of my 82i. I own an 815, but it's #3. It's always about what works in a situation, anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arovinsky Posted January 6, 2013 Report Share Posted January 6, 2013 Re Philip's statement: I'm 5/9", I boomed for 30 years, and I found that it's easier to hold a long/heavier mike steady at full extension than a short mike, because they balance better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip Perkins Posted January 6, 2013 Report Share Posted January 6, 2013 Re Philip's statement: I'm 5/9", I boomed for 30 years, and I found that it's easier to hold a long/heavier mike steady at full extension than a short mike, because they balance better. And then the wind picks up...... philp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rb1138 Posted January 6, 2013 Report Share Posted January 6, 2013 I love this thread. Long guns are a mystery since they're not used as often or talked about as much. So here it is, a thread that actually explores them. Thank you, JonG! I've never used a long gun but there are times I felt like I needed one. I own a CS3e. There are lavs, but they are dubious. Sawrab Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Wielage Posted January 6, 2013 Report Share Posted January 6, 2013 I think the MKH70 and MKH816's can both be very helpful in outdoor situations that don't lend themselves to wireless mics. Nearly-naked swimmers or surfers in water would be an example, especially if you're in a wide shot situation -- though there's a good chance ADR might be necessary for something like this (unless it's a low-budget/reality situation). I have definitely had cases where I chose an MKH60 for an outdoor situation and later wished I had brought along the 70 instead. In some cases, the extra reach can be useful, and I think it balances the best of the 416 and the (much bigger and heavier) 816 in one package. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gpiegari Posted January 6, 2013 Report Share Posted January 6, 2013 Sawrab is correct that the MKH-70 is used for all REALITY on Survivor but the tribal council, the challenges, and some of the rewards rely on LAVs (trams). Having been a boom swinger for the last seven seasons on that show has fostered much of my praises for the MKH-70. We are almost always near breaking surf, folks walking on crunchy coral, at great distance to avoid shadows... the 70 shines and often in the worst conditions of rain and humidity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Campion Posted January 6, 2013 Report Share Posted January 6, 2013 Good thread. Does anyone have comparative experience between the 70 and the 8070? I used to have an 82i, and now the 8070. 'Thin' and 'Muddy' are words to describe my thoughts on them both (for dialogue). I don't know what it is exactly, but my confidence in using these long guns (for dialogue) is shot to hell. Probably making too may direct comparisons with nicer mics is unhealthy, or maybe having unrealistic expectations with the the off axis rejection and being disappointed, and it not being worth the loss in voice quality. I've confined the 8070 to a locked 1700 peli case until I really, really need to catch dialogue on a boom from more than about 6 feet distance. Until then, its still CMIT territory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Constantin Posted January 6, 2013 Report Share Posted January 6, 2013 Good thread. Does anyone have comparative experience between the 70 and the 8070? I used to have an 82i, and now the 8070. 'Thin' and 'Muddy' are words to describe my thoughts on them both (for dialogue). . I don't, but I would like to point out that the 8070 is not a replacement for the 70, as much as the 8060 is not a replacement for the 60. The price alone is an indicator. With regards to the SuperCMIT I would like to point out that physically it's not a long gun, it's only a bit longer than the standard CMIT. So it is easier to handle, but still needs to be aimed very accurately. But that applies only to the DSP'd channel. You can simultaneously record the dsp'd channel as well as the unaffected channel which sounds and points like the cmit 5u. I said above that the supercmit is more difficult to use with a wireless tx. But on the other hand the digital signal is impervious to interference from power lines, etc., so using it cabled is that little bit easier. I love that mic. If I owned it, I would use it a lot, it is not a mere alternative to a long shotgun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Foy Posted January 7, 2013 Report Share Posted January 7, 2013 Roso, As it is a subjective question, why don't you hire an MKH70 for a day and give it a good work out. IMO, you will be far from disappointed, 'Thin and Muddy' are definitely not two words that come to mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Wielage Posted January 7, 2013 Report Share Posted January 7, 2013 We are almost always near breaking surf, folks walking on crunchy coral, at great distance to avoid shadows... the 70 shines and often in the worst conditions of rain and humidity. I don't like reality shows as a rule, Glen, but no question: Survivor is a class act and you guys do a tremendous job, across-the-board. I don't doubt that the challenges for the camera department, sound department, and editorial are absolutely incredible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rb1138 Posted January 7, 2013 Report Share Posted January 7, 2013 Sawrab is correct that the MKH-70 is used for all REALITY on Survivor but the tribal council, the challenges, and some of the rewards rely on LAVs (trams). Having been a boom swinger for the last seven seasons on that show has fostered much of my praises for the MKH-70. We are almost always near breaking surf, folks walking on crunchy coral, at great distance to avoid shadows... the 70 shines and often in the worst conditions of rain and humidity. Sorry about that. Yes you can clearly hear that Joe Rogan is on a lav all the time and everyone seems to be on lavs during the tribal council (and some other things). I don't know why I said it like that.... Anyway, I think whoever watches the show can tell when this happens. The lavaliers sound very different from the booms. Didn't know they were Trams though. Roso, As it is a subjective question, why don't you hire an MKH70 for a day and give it a good work out. IMO, you will be far from disappointed, 'Thin and Muddy' are definitely not two words that come to mind. If I'm not mistaken I swear they use 8070s during NFL games to catch dialogue from the coaches. I actually wouldn't call the way this microphone sounds muddy, but it does sound a bit harsh. On the other hand, it also sounds a bit nice. Kind of reminded me of a DPA lav for some reason but didn't sound like a lavalier either. And yes, it does lack some bass. I'd imagine it would get mixed with the lavaliers for narratives and may sound a lot better. With regards to the SuperCMIT I would like to point out that physically it's not a long gun, it's only a bit longer than the standard CMIT. So it is easier to handle, but still needs to be aimed very accurately. But that applies only to the DSP'd channel. You can simultaneously record the dsp'd channel as well as the unaffected channel which sounds and points like the cmit 5u. I said above that the supercmit is more difficult to use with a wireless tx. But on the other hand the digital signal is impervious to interference from power lines, etc., so using it cabled is that little bit easier. I love that mic. If I owned it, I would use it a lot, it is not a mere alternative to a long shotgun I'm probably going to end up starting another thread about this. Eventually. They designed the Super CMIT for sports and it's a digital mic. Sawrab Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Constantin Posted January 7, 2013 Report Share Posted January 7, 2013 No, but I did only use it on the one production which was shot in mid-winter at -4 F. It worked well at those freezing temps. The mic gets quite warm when active, so that might've helped. A friend of mine has recently used it in the summer in the morocco desert, so high temps seem to be fine, too. Mine was a low-budget prod and had many sound problems, incl a generator parked too close to that ("but we don't have longer cables"), as well as a "sound stage" that was anything but, with a car workshop next door, which was very audible. The super CMIT really shone here, getting rid of a lot of the problems. That being said, I have never experienced any of the problems with the other Schoeps mics, but from what I gathered from this forum, it only applies to the modular mics, which the Super obviously isn't. Oh, abd the Super does not seem to have the aanoying mid/high freq hiss, which the regular cmit has. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rb1138 Posted January 7, 2013 Report Share Posted January 7, 2013 No, but I did only use it on the one production which was shot in mid-winter at -4 F. It worked well at those freezing temps. The mic gets quite warm when active, so that might've helped. A friend of mine has recently used it in the summer in the morocco desert, so high temps seem to be fine, too. Mine was a low-budget prod and had many sound problems, incl a generator parked too close to that ("but we don't have longer cables"), as well as a "sound stage" that was anything but, with a car workshop next door, which was very audible. The super CMIT really shone here, getting rid of a lot of the problems. That being said, I have never experienced any of the problems with the other Schoeps mics, but from what I gathered from this forum, it only applies to the modular mics, which the Super obviously isn't. Oh, abd the Super does not seem to have the aanoying mid/high freq hiss, which the regular cmit has. That's amazing! That is true of the modular mics, but there have been accounts of the CMIT 5U also sputtering out because of humidity. Sawrab Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted January 7, 2013 Report Share Posted January 7, 2013 " just wonder if it will be enough for some of the distant field recording I do. " maybe, maybe not... only you will be able to determine. The CS-3e is the equivalent of a long shotgun (as are a couple others that arre acoustically longer than their physical length, by design)... the SuperCMIT will almost certainly be the champ, AT also used to make an expensive digitally processed mic. For 7 seasons I heavily used (there is a pun in there!) an 816 on 2nd unit for Baywatch, with always impressive results, and back then I remember preferring it to the (then new) MKH-70 for that show. Today I would use either a CS-3e or SuperCMIT (the CMIT is not a long tube, but the DSP in the Super version really enhances its rejection, resulting in more forward s/n. " a low-budget prod and had many sound problems, incl a generator parked too close to that ("but we don't have longer cables"), as well as a "sound stage" that was anything but, with a car workshop next door, " better than they deserved with bad choices like those... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Constantin Posted January 7, 2013 Report Share Posted January 7, 2013 better than they deserved with bad choices like those... Definitely. But at least they were very apologetic and paid the extra rental of the SuperCMIT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted January 7, 2013 Report Share Posted January 7, 2013 " paid the extra rental " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Constantin Posted January 8, 2013 Report Share Posted January 8, 2013 Have you had any of the classic Schoeps problems of humidity with this microphone? Actually, I just rembered that we spent half a day shooting a shower scene with lots of steam and hot water. The SuperCMIT held up well, whereas the Red Epic failed shortly afterwards. Apart from that the locations were as dry as they could be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rb1138 Posted January 8, 2013 Report Share Posted January 8, 2013 Actually, I just rembered that we spent half a day shooting a shower scene with lots of steam and hot water. The SuperCMIT held up well, whereas the Red Epic failed shortly afterwards. Apart from that the locations were as dry as they could be. I think it might be wrong to feel this way, but I was thoroughly amused by that statement. Sawrab Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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