Microphones in Feature Films

[PeterE]

Does anyone know or able to identify name/model of the mics which are been used in feature films, that we can compare and hear the difference?

 

It would be great to see and hear the sound of the mic in a real feature film.

[Jeff Wexler]

This would be very difficult to accomplish. It would be quite easy to look (and listen) to feature films  made at specific times in history and most probably identify what microphones were used in production, but there are so many other factors that affect the final soundtrack, comparisons would be very difficult. I am not saying that tired old phrase (oft quoted from the Senator) "by the time it gets to the screen, no one can tell what kind of microphone was used", because I think, at least in a general sense, movies in any given period of time do have a signature sound based on the common use of specific microphones. The other factor that makes this so difficult is that not only has there been some variability and choices of production microphones over the years, post production equipment and procedures have undergone significant changes.

 

It is an interesting quest you have proposed but I think a task which is not possible. I think your only shot at answers to this question would come from analysis of various production tracks, the microphones used, and their path through post production to completed release print.

[Jack Norflus]

Ask the mixer.

If you name a movie - perhaps the mixer participates on this board and they could possibly enlighten.

[PeterE]

I just thought maybe some people on this forum been involved on movie sets, so that they can tell us...

 

Because I've found that with some examples of mics, which been posted here via YouTube or Vimeo, non of them sounded very filmic to me, it sounded more like a documentary style. And I'm talking about mics over 1k and more, maybe it is just my ears....

[Jay Rose]

Even if you got raw production tracks from movies over the past fifty years, the shooting style has an effect on the dialog style. Tight & Wide, moving out of studios to practical houses and offices...

 

I just thought maybe some people on this forum been involved on movie sets...

 

You're really new here, aren't you?

[Eric Toline]

The most common hypercardioid mics used are the Schoeps 641(CMC 6 preamp with the MK41 capsule) and the Sennheiser MKH 50. Shotgun mics  would include the Sennheiser MKH 60, Neumann 81i, Schoeps CMIT. Lavalier mics would be the COS11 and various DPA lavs. there are other mics in each catagory of course. The post production process adds a lot of what you are  calling "filmic" versus the raw unprocessed sound that you refer to as documentary. BTW go to imdb.com and look up our host Jeff Wexler and see what he has worked on for the past 40 years.

 

 

Eric

[Jeff Wexler]

I just thought maybe some people on this forum been involved on movie sets, so that they can tell us...

 

There are certainly quite a few of us that have "been involved on movie sets", for me, for example, that would be about 75 feature film sets over the last 43 years. Trying to evaluate ANYTHING relating to sound while viewing an online video on YouTube or Vimeo is a pretty futile task. If you re-phrase your question we may come up with some suitable answers.

[PeterE]

Even if you got raw production tracks from movies over the past fifty years, the shooting style has an effect on the dialog style. Tight & Wide, moving out of studios to practical houses and offices...

 

 

You're really new here, aren't you?

Yes I'm , a newbie.

[VASI]

Sennheiser MKH50 it's very popular.

 

But it depends from production sound mixer to production sound mixer and he/she plans from location to location. In one project at this location the MKH50 works but in the other location and different project doesn't work.

 

It depends and where you hear that. Cinema, Television and DVD (speakers tv), you are hearing from laptop speakers etc etc..

 

Have back in your mind it's not only from production sound but and from the post production work in dialogues (denoiser, comp, eq etc etc)..

 

What Jeff, Eric and other guys say

[PeterE]

I got a general idea of MKH-50 and Schoeps 641, as they are the once used more often than others... in general.

 

But looks like "raw sound" and post production is another quest for Hollywood sound... Mmmmm

[PeterE]

 

Sennheiser MKH50 it's very popular.

 

But it depends from production sound mixer to production sound mixer and he/she plans from location to location. In one project at this location the MKH50 works but in the other location and different project doesn't work.

 

It depends and where you hear that. Cinema, Television and DVD (speakers tv), you are hearing from laptop speakers etc etc..

 

Have back in your mind it's not only from production sound but and from the post production work in dialogues (denoiser, comp, eq etc etc)..

 

What Jeff, Eric and other guys say

 

I'm talking about cinema in general as a main source

 

Another thing, I noticed In Indian (Bollywood) movies I can hear that most of the sound is recorded from the studio, the sound been dubbed or you call it ADR some sort.

 

But I heard that in America they are trying to use sound from the film set in general. Is it a true statement?

[Eric Toline]

A Senatorial answer: Yes. If you hang out here long enough you'll know what that refers to.

 

Eric

[LarryF]

I just thought maybe some people on this forum been involved on movie sets, so that they can tell us...

 

[snip]

There's probably people on this forum that did the sound for "The Jazz Singer". 

Best,

Larry F

[Eric Toline]

I resemble that remark.

 

 

Eric

[PeterE]

Ok... once I got sound from lets say MKH-50, is there some way to improve the raw sound to something better in Adobe Audition 6 for example to achieve that Hollywood sound without going to a professional studio? Or there are no shortcuts and I still going to end up with documentary/reality show sound.

[Dan Ostroff]

Waiting for the archer and arrows comment. Very fitting here.

[Jesper Magnusson]

First of all, welcome to the forum.

In regards to your first question, it would be very difficult to judge different mics used for film dialogue based on finished films, since the post production process often make changes that are bigger than the differences between the mics (and the changes might be specific to the film or scene in question), plus the circumstances of the shooting create conditions that give slightly different results even when the same mic is used all the time.

Secondly, it's a myth that many modern films mainly use ADR.
From what I've come to understand, roughly 0-10 % may be ADR, and it's mostly for scenes that had difficult location noises, stunts, or simply narrative changes.

Thirdly, what you need to look into are dialogue editing and mixing. A good place to start would be John Purcell's book about dialogue editing.


There are many highly skilled and seasoned professionals on this forum, that are often very happy to share their knowledge. There's a huge amount of information among the many past topics, so before you ask anything, always do a search to see what have already been said (use google or a similar engine to search within the website, as it's own search function is a bit lacking).

[John Blankenship]

To create more "cinema like" sound tracks:

Start with professionally recorded dialog tracks, captured by a skilled production sound team.

Strip the dialog tracks down to their essence, pulling out any sound effects for use on other tracks. This is best accomplished with a skilled dialog editor.

ADR any lines that need replacing. This is best accomplished with a skilled ADR mixer and skilled ADR editor. Have a professional ADR recorder capture Foley tracks with an experienced ADR artist, employ a skilled ADR editor, and mix the tracks with a skilled ADR mixer.

Spot, record, and process sound effects with a skilled sound effects recorder, editor, and mixer, while professional recorders, editors and mixers create ambiances and sonic environments.

Record a music score, created by a talented composer, on a scoring stage with an accomplished conductor leading a group of experienced musicians.

Process and mix all the above on a qualified mix stage using a team of experienced mixers, along with input from advisers on any particular processes such as Dolby, etc.

Execute the above and you should be much closer to achieving "Hollywood sound."

[pkautzsch]

As can frequently be read here, it takes years of experience to get years of experience. And that experience is what makes good sound.

With enough experience, folks know which mic to use where. Usually placement is more important than mic choice.

Also, experienced folks know how to communicate with the other departments, and how to work challenges like "impossible" locations.

 

Lots of good info on modern techniques can be found in two threads by Simon Hayes, one is about Les Miserables, the other is titled "In search of a quiet set". However, just using the same equipment or even the same technique on another shoot may not yield the same quality. It's the people operating the gear.

[rb1138]

Secondly, it's a myth that many modern films mainly use ADR.

From what I've come to understand, roughly 0-10 % may be ADR, and it's mostly for scenes that had difficult location noises, stunts, or simply narrative changes.

 

Yes I've noticed. Instead they'll use crappy/heavy noise reduction before they ADR it.... 

[studiomprd]

" Does anyone know or able to identify name/model of the mics which are been used in feature films, that we can compare and hear the difference? "

well, I am " saying that tired old phrase (oft quoted from the Senator) "by the time it gets to the screen, no one can tell what kind of microphone was used", "

 

" Ok... once I got sound from lets say MKH-50, is there some way to improve the raw sound to something better in Adobe Audition 6 for example to achieve that Hollywood sound without going to a professional studio? "

" Waiting for the archer and arrows comment. Very fitting here. "

thank you Dan...

"It isn't about the arrows as much as it is about the archer."

PeterE may not get that, yet.

[old school]

Ya got to be careful what you wish for Peter... You might just get it.

 

Personally I like the raw/real un-hollywood sound of an open mic like a 641 before it has been compressed and finessed and the true dynamics of the sound lost in the bed of sfx n music. If you have such a track I suggest taking it into a DAW like Pro Tools and play around with the track and see if you can pump it up to your idea of "Major Motion Picture Sound". Good luck.

CrewC

[Jesper Magnusson]

Yes I've noticed. Instead they'll use crappy/heavy noise reduction before they ADR it.... 

One of the many ways that the boring reality of economics crash the party. I suppose the good side is that noise reduction programs are getting pretty good nowadays (at least for some things). I'm very excited about the stuff that will be available ten years from now.

[PeterE]

Is there a magazine for a cinema sound people, like "American Cinematographer" where they talk about mixing and sound equipment been used on sets?

 

Does it really then matter all that much, if they can bring any kind of mic to be sound alike?

 

From my understanding, they can make Rode ntg-3 to be sound the same as MKH-50, Schoeps 641 or Sanken CS-3E, and nobody will tell the difference at the end, and same will go for lav and a shotgun, right. All mics from above are good but the difference between all them are 5 to 10 percent. Or do I miss something?

 

I've heard that on 60 minutes they tend to use only lavs instead of shotguns, do they process that sound in anyway or the audience hear the raw sound?

 

And what audio tools are out there, as far as I know there from AVID, Adobe and Apple I don't think there is anything else. There probably some kind of "sound color presets" in Adobe Audition for example, similar used for video digital picture/color styles to emulate a film look... 

[Jeff Wexler]

Dear Peter E:

It would quite helpful for those willing to try and answer some of your questions, if you could let us know the reason for the questions. Is this purely academic? Are you writing a book? Do you want to start (or are you already) working on jobs recording sound for picture? If you take any one of your questions about how this or that show is done, "60 Minutes" for example, I'm not sure the answer will be of any use to you. Incidentally, I think you have it incorrectly with regards to "60 Minutes" --- many of their sit down interviews are done with traditional cardioid or hypercardiod mics rigged on stands over both the interviewer and the subject. Most probably they also have lavalier mics on. If you were to get a job doing "60 Minutes" you would employ the same techniques and procedures that the shows uses.

 

As for the mention of "audio tools", there are hundreds of software and hardware/software based tools utilized in post that professional sound people use to work on the soundtrack...  they are just tools and none of them have a "magic button" that will make your production tracks sound like they were done by someone with real experience.