Do you ever participate in post sound?

[ptalsky]

Hi all,

I was just reading the headphone level thread and for some reason this triggered a question in my head (well, many questions are always floating in my head, may be this one just floated to the top).

Do you ever participate in the post-sound process?  I recorded a feature earlier this year and am participating in the post process with it and I'm finding it enlightening.  Things we worried about during the shoot being a non-issue, and things that weren't heard on set that have created a problem, ADR, foley, etc. 

Just curious to see how often others sit in or participate in post.

Thanks!

Phil

[rich]

curious as to what wasnt heard on set that created a problem in post.

but to answer your question. no, though i am ever optimistic that i will get the chance / time / out of bed early enough on a day off to do so

[ptalsky]

Well, a better way to say it would be stuff that I heard on set and was told not to worry about it (i.e. let's move on and fix it in post).  :-)  Now I'm watching the director sweat out that decision and it's kind of fun (in a slightly sadistic sort of way).

Phil

[Eric Toline]

Well, a better way to say it would be stuff that I heard on set and was told not to worry about it (i.e. let's move on and fix it in post).  :-)  Now I'm watching the director sweat out that decision and it's kind of fun (in a slightly sadistic sort of way).

Phil

"Revenge is a dish best served cold"

Eric

[mpsanos]

Phil,

I've posted about 75% of my production work, the cool thing about it is I have the opportunity to analyze the scene from an audio perspective.

Mike

[James Arnold]

I'd love to sit in on more post. I seem to spend half my life aggravating producers about sound issues that seem to vanish on the broadcast of the final show: but hey, I like to get it right.

[Philip Perkins]

Becoming a sound editor and rerecording mixer made me a much better (and easier to live with) production sound mixer.  It is important for production sound people to keep up with developments in both picture and sound post in order to understand more clearly what is and isn't fixable about the issues they encounter and the workflows that are developing and changing very quickly now.  (For instance, the whole Canon 5D deal.)  It really helps to be able to have informed discussions with editors and producers about how to best accomplish a job, understand their end of the work and why they might be asking for something that could seem odd or counterproductive to you.

I'm about 50/50 post/production anymore.

Philip Perkins

[Richard Lightstone, CAS]

Like Phil, I have also done sound editing. Fortunately, not on anything I did the Production Sound on.

This was when there were still sprocket holes in what we were editing. I later did a few more projects in the Pro-Tools environment. But the real great part of all this was to be actively involved in the final mix.

As a habit I always try to follow my tracks through post and if the schedule works out, attend a few days of the dubbing process.

I think that everyone of us should maintain a good relationship with post and see how our tracks are treated and sound on the dub stage.

RL

[John Coffey]

Since Coffey Sound now belongs to a group of companies that includes a few post houses, I have put the idea out to them that more interaction with the production mixer would be good for everyone.  My hope is that eventually, those production sound mixers who have any pull, might want to influence a producer to use them.  It's just good business for both sides to have a special rapport with production sound mixers.  They agree.  That would also help protect your future jobs with that client because they will surely think twice before ever blaming the mixer for bad tracks.  

So if anyone is working on a show posted by Postworks, Orbit or Hula in New York or Los Angeles, let me know and I will hook you up.  Maybe I can start by seeing if I can get some of them to participate here?

John Coffey

[studiomprd]

"  Maybe I can start by seeing if I can get some of them to participate here? "

Maybe??

no maybe's, I think that would be really valuable to the forum!!

please do it!

[JDirckze]

I'm kind of a rare breed it seems, I work on staff for a large Australian production company. 75% of the time I am on location as a sound mixer, but when there are no productions shooting I am in the office in their audio post production facility. I don't have enough experience to mix shows yet, just not fast enough on PT, but I do a lot of audio tracklay, which includes the initial OMF split, VO recording, dialogue and music edit, laying up atmos and FX, and editing VO. Basically preparing all audio for mix.

I often get to sit in on the mixes, and am amazed at how much background noise can be removed to increase clarity in the dialogue.

Being a part of post production audio has definitely made me a better location sound guy. One thing though, is to make sure I don't fall in to the habit of saying "They'll be able to fix that in post", even though I know they probably could. I still do everything in my power to deliver the cleanest possible audio tracks, but I also know when not to cause to much fuss over something that will most likely have music and VO over it, and only use the occasional UPSOT.

The production company I work for produce content for The Discovery Network, National Geographic Network, History Channel, as well as content for local Australian networks.

[DBurnette]

My first job was in post, but at the very end of the chain...I worked at a studio that scored music for TV...I might have overlapped with Jason's work, since I worked on some National Geographic and Discovery shows.

Music is interesting in the context of production sound. It's possible to write music and orchestrate to specific frequencies to disguise background noise from the production track. Docs are their own world though, as ADR and a quite stage never happen.

[Mark Orusa]

I've had the benefit of working both production and post for a number of low budget features. My location work is mostly commercial stuff, but I have boomed a few movies and sound mixed some straight to DVD stuff. IMDB: http://www.imdb.com/name/nm2208778/

In post I've been fortunate to be able to edit dialogue, ADR, effects, background, and record and edit foley. Kudos to the sound mixer who goes the extra mile to fight what often seems like the rest of the production crew for the benefit of sound. Lavs on all actors with lines, getting the boom in close, everything on isolated tracks, rolling sound on something that could have been MOS, and the occasional room tone are very much appreciated.

I concur with the others about what seemed like a problem on location wasn't really that bad once it got into post. However, we strive for the best, don't we. Semper fi.

Mark

[Nicole Hankerson]

Yeah I do post. What gets me the most in when I have to edit something that a boom op with no skills did. You hear him moving the mic, you got crazy background noise, and oh man you can barely hear vocals sometimes. I actually like doing post and as someone mentioned earlier it helps you to see things differently in production and also to help narrow down problems or have no issues really in post. But Foley is my favorite.

Nicole

[berniebeaudry]

I was on staff for twenty plus years at a major PBS TV station.  I was fortunate on some projects to take a project from the field audio, through the video edit, and then into sweetening.  Started out on the Studer

Dyaxis with two tracks and a Mac LE synced up with a one inch 8 track machine.  A whopping half hour of storage on the hard drive.  Did lots of stems submixed to the 8 track.  Went on to Sonic Solutions and stopped doing post just before we switched to Pro Tools.  As a freelancer the only post I do now is simple editing of my back up recordings.  I think its invaluable to have done post when you do location sound.

Bernie

[Danijel Milosevic]

The rennaisance way of doing sound for film in eastern Europe (and probably all of Europe) always meant that the production mixer did the final mixing as well. Picture editors were the ones to edit in most of the music and sound effects.

Unfortunatelly (IMHO), this way of working gave way to Hollywood-style workflow, but there are still a couple of guys in my country (including me) who do both jobs. For me, production mixing came out of frustration with the tracks that I used to get from the field, so I decided to go out and capture them myself (so, at least, I can only blame myself), but became my prefered life-style over sitting in the studio (which is still my main thing, though).....

[greg sextro]

I posted a feature earlier this year that I was on set for the previous fall.  There was one outdoor location - a restaurant ext.  It was rather windy and all the umbrellas over the tables were swaying around a lot.  Fortunately, those weren't a problem, but what was a problem for me was the flag pole across the street that had a metal hook that was hitting and ringing against the flag pole - it was driving me crazy.  I kept running over between takes trying to see if there was a way I could fix it, but it turns out it was all locked up.

In post, I spent a good amount of time building the BG sounds for the scene, which was mostly one long 3 minute take, one angle, their lavs were the only source of production audio (and had little to no amb in them).  I ended up really liking the sound of that clinking from the metal pole, and actually spent a good amount of time trying to re-create it so I could build it more into the track - I ended up finding a park with a metal structured swing set and hitting the metal chain of the swing against the pole.  It matched perfectly and when added to the rest of the sounds (wind/flapping/etc) really helped bring the space alive.

As a postie - there's one relatively new plug in bundle called iZotope RX that has changed a lot what I worry about on set.  There is this part of the bundle called "Spectral Repair" which can get out more noises then I ever thought possible (here I'm talking about shorter and sharp noises - there are other plug ins in the bundle that handle broadband noise reduction).  But, of course, I make a strong consideration if I know that I am posting it, or if it's going to someone else.

Being based in NY, I often get some strange looks requesting roomtone on some really noisy sets.  I want to make sure the post people have a good "clean" recording of it for the purposes of sampling it for broadband noise reduction.

As far as things that are problematic and weren't heard on set - I find these usually are the result of a director not listening in on the audio and likely an actor saying something wrong or messing up a line - or an actor that could only deliver one performance that the director liked, but was messed up by a quiet but too audible overhead plane or something.  Unheard rumbles are usually easy to deal with, and boom handling is easier to deal with now with iZotope.  Clothing noise on lavs is still tough to deal with in post, and when you have a bunch of them open on set - it is sometimes hard to notice. 

-Greg-