Microphone question

[eloyinedito]

Hi,

I've been reading the forum time but had never participated.

 

Currently, I'm thinking of buying a shotgun microphone but I have serious doubts about which one is right for me.

 

I work in short films and corporate videos, interviews. I'm using almost all jobs in the Sennheiser 416 (though not mine).

 

I like the 416 but I want to buy something higher. I need more directionality than 416 and if possible, better sound.

I would like a shotgun mic for indoor and outdoor.

 

I've seen the Sanken CS3e and Neumann Kmr81I. The Sanken seems a little brighter and that may not respond well to bass (some EQ?) And its directionality do not know if it is excessive or not.

 

The Neumann Kmr81I seem to respond well to bass (emphasize maybe?) And not be its directionality as compared to 416.

 

 

I hope you can help me, thank you very much.

 

Eloy

[Patrick Southern]

There's quite a bit that could be said about the relative strengths and weaknesses of the various mics mentioned here, all of which have been discussed on these forums in various contexts.  For a nice overview, I like Ken Stone's "As I Hear It"analysis, which can be found here:

http://www.kenstone.net/fcp_homepage/right_mic_brockett.html

[Gerard-NYNY]

When looking at ken stone, take a long look at the Schoeps cmc 6 with the mk41 capsule. You can change the directionality by changing the capsule. You want versatility? That system works out the best. You'll need to get the cut one filter to roll of room and handling noise.

You can pick up a lot of used and well cared for Schoeps items at the usual production sound stores and on eBay.

[Rick Reineke]

The Sanken CS3e is arguably the best 'all around' single mic, though it ain't perfect and it's unforgiving, so in the hands of the inexperienced, off-axis problems are likely.

 

"I like the 416 but I want to buy something higher. I need more directionality than 416 and if possible, better sound"

Don't know what you mean by "higher". Cost?

-- An 816 would be a little more 'directional', but their usage is quite limited... and most of us who own a long shotgun, don't use them much.

The lack of isolation (directionality) could be improper usage and/or placement,  a typical complaint of the inexperienced who expect great sound (magic) at any distance or environment.

[Marc Wielage]

If you already own a 416, then I'd recommend a Sennheiser MKH40 as having a wider pattern, often better for interiors -- especially in situations with reflective walls (like a kitchen or bathroom). I actually prefer the MKH60 to the 416, but honestly I own both and still hold on to the 416, if only out of nostalgia. 

 

If you can only afford one mic, then I'd say it's hard to beat the 416 just for sheer functionality and ruggedness, as well as wide availability and reasonable cost.

[Herbert Verdino]

Have you tried the new MKH 8060? I'ts a great mic. Simulare to the 416, but sounds not so sharp in the high frequencies. Also performes great indoors and sounds also good off axis. And the best thing.... the price is great!

For dokumentury, reality shows or interviews, I would only use Sennheiser, becouse of there verry stabile HF circuits.

The Neumman KMR 81, is mor like a princes under the microphones. Sounds great, but if you have anny Radio Frequency, like a telephone or an video transmitter aside, it could easy be, that the RF is influencing the Neumann.

It is aslo not very resistanad against moisture.

 

I think the MKH 8060 is at the moment the best mic you can get for an great price!

 

Best

[eloyinedito]

Hi,

 

Thank you very much for the answers to everybody.

 

I think I Explained wrong, I am not unhappy With The result of 416, the case Is that the owner of the microphone is not me (Although I Have Been using for two years). Then, as I have to return it to its owner, it's time to buy the microphone.

 

Then I was mulling other possibilities to 416, then I would not mind spending a little more IF NECESSARY.

 

Maybe it's inexperience (I do not deny) but there are Situations Such as in the middle of a street where the 416 works but where I notice something missing Perhaps a bit more directional.

 

I'm no expert, I have only been working a few years so I wanted to apologize if my questions are "noob".

 

If you recommend me, buy the 416 without any problems, just wanted to find out about other possibilities

[John Blankenship]

There are no magic bullets. If you find a 416 lacking in directionality, other than in unique situations, then you're either not using the microphone correctly or you desperately need to change locations.

I've shot in a working steel mill (with construction going on in an adjacent building) with a 416 and the client was quite pleased with how clearly the Governor's comments came across.

The inverse square law is both your enemy and your friend. Twice the mic to subject distance means 1/4 the sound, so if you're four feet away from your dialog source, compared to two feet away, the background noise will be four times as loud, relative to the dialog. If you're eight feet away when you should be two feet away, then you have sixteen times more background noise than you should have, relative to the dialog. Moving the mic closer to the sound source -- and staying clearly on-axis -- is much more effective than trying to find a "magic mic."

If the production expects you to boom clear, present dialog by locating in a vacant lot across the street, you either need to switch to a lav -- or production needs to be educated.

[eloyinedito]

Of course I'm not looking for a magic microphone. One commented That Sometimes I feel I need something maybe even a bit more directional microphone although placed it close to the source.

 

I did not mean to look for a magic microphone ..

 

What are the differences between the 416 and the 8060?

 

Thank you

[soundslikejustin]

What are the differences between the 416 and the 8060?

About 40 years.

In seriousness, the 8060 is modular (8000 range), smaller, lighter and is reported to have a smoother off axis response.

[Constantin]

While I would not call the Sanken CS3e the best all around mic, it may well be what you need for that little bit of extra reach and off axis reduction. I have never used one myself though, but that's what I gathered reading various threads here.

Apart from that:

+1 what John said. Mic placement and choice of location are way more important factors in getting good sound, than the comparatively minute differences that all of the great mics mentioned have compared to each other.

[Herbert Verdino]

Maybe you should check you an longer shot gun mic as well, that you can use, when your soundsource is farther away.

Like an MKH8070, Nemann KMR 82.... or check on ebay for an older MKH816.

I got one some weeks ago on an ebay action and I love it. Great old mic. And it matches good with my MKH416.

 

The MKH8060 is a little bit more sensitive to wind noices than the MKH416. But with a blimp, no problems!

[graham]

Take into account that you are monitoring over headphones. A lot of the "noise" you are picking up or whatever your dissatisfaction with the 416, or whatever microphone's, "directionality" and ambient becomes much less apparent on a set of speakers. If you are dissatisfied after listening to your projects over speakers then it is time to make a change in either equipment or your skill set in using them

[allenc3]

Have you tried the new MKH 8060? I'ts a great mic. Simulare to the 416, but sounds not so sharp in the high frequencies. Also performes great indoors and sounds also good off axis. And the best thing.... the price is great!

I think the MKH 8060 is at the moment the best mic you can get for an great price!

I have used the Senn 416 and like it, works well and is accepted as a standard mic on a show. You will have no complaints from customers. But I wanted a lighter weight rig and newer tech, so I did research and bought the Senn MKH 8060 shotgun and a 13 foot Gitzo carbon pole and a Rycote Softie and pistol shock mount. I bought a less stiff shock mount for the pistol grip which greatly reduced handling noise. Had I known better I would not have bought the pistol mount, but rather gotten a non-pistol mount to further reduce weight. I also use small diameter lightweight mic cable. For indoor sound I bought a Senn MKH 8050 super cardioid and a Rycote InVision INV-3 shock mount. That 8050 mic is tiny and the boom rig is amazingly light weight. I can fully extend the boom and hold it at the end with one hand at a 90 deg angle and position the mic. Another boom guy kept asking me to demo that move!

If more directionality is needed, there is the Senn MKH 8070 shotgun. A local Senn contact can sample you a demo 8060 or 8050, that's what I did.

[John Blankenship]

Since the O.P. asked, "...which one to get?" I wouldn't recommend a 70 or 816 as the ONE. Those are "in addition to" microphones, not all around mics in any stretch of the imagination.

Of course, asking a mixer what one mic to buy is like asking a mechanic what one wrench to buy.

They're tools, and it's important to have the right tool for the right job.

[Gerard-NYNY]

i think the op, in stating he wants 'more directionality' is referring to the amount of off axis pickup a 416 pulls in. to my ears a 416 sounds great outside. interiors is a different story to my ears, it picks up everything from everywhere and transients are a particular problem. the best for off axis attenuation, in most peoples opinion is the schoeps cmit5u; it offers the best off axis rejection, and the leftover attenuated off axis sound is contextually useful in a lot of circumstances; background ambient noise is imaged as background ambience. the 416 doesnt do that as well.

[Philip Perkins]

An aside--whatever you get....keep your 416 too.  It's the mic that works when nothing else does (RF, moisture etc).

 

philp

[RPSharman]

If you're buying your first mic, buy a 416.

You'll own it forever.

[jwill]

+1 on 416, had mine for 29 yrs....Sennheisser just put new XLR end and cleaned capsule...works like a charm everyday every kind of situation/weather...never had an issue from the day I was given it till today, it survived my sound recordist days, mounted it to my cameras over the years and now on a boom every day i work....ready to go just in case. MHO JHW

[Richard Nault]

An aside--whatever you get....keep your 416 too.  It's the mic that works when nothing else does (RF, moisture etc).

 

philp

 

+1

[eloyinedito]

Thank you very much for your answers.

 

I had planned to go with the 416 but as soon I will have to do several jobs interviews in a hospital where the acoustic is not very good so I looked for alternatives because there I think the 416 would not work so well.

 

But probably it are the best option.

 

Out of curiosity, in terms of directionality (low to high) would be like? Sennheiser Mkh416-Neumann Kmr81-Sanken CS3e?

[Herbert Verdino]

I think the best for you would be to buy not only one mic. One short shotgun (416 for example) one cardiode or hypercardioid for interior and if you have money left one long shotgun!

And a backpack to carry them with you ;-)

[sergiofucchi]

Eloy, If you are interested I own two 816 and a 815 and I would like to sell them. I also own the complete set of Rycote windscreen [type 8]

 

Sergio.

[studiomprd]

" I want to buy something higher "

yes, there are numerous choices, and I'm guessing that your location does not make auditioning various mic's easy,  but this topic arises here frequently, and the answer is, in the end, a personal, subjective choice.

generally speaking, interference tube type mic's (shotguns) are not  as good in enclosed spaces, especially reverberant ones, and that is why many folks prefer hyper-cardioid (non interference tube) mic's for interiors, or use shorter shotguns...

every time this comes up, the consensus still seems to remain highly favorable towards the416.

[eloyinedito]

Thank you very much.

 

 

And.. What about of Sanken Cs2 vs Sennheiser 416?

 

 

Thanks