Philip Perkins Posted October 19, 2023 Report Share Posted October 19, 2023 Because I come from the Age of Analog, I needed to convince myself that a Dante based recording system would indeed hold sync to the degree needed for location dialog (etc) recording. After being told it would by a friendly tech @ Audinate, I set out to prove it to myself. A mic pointed at a radio with a talky station on, the pre output split between my 744T (which has been an extremely reliable source of WC and TC for my rigs for decades now) and an Audinate AVIO 2-input Dante adapter, then a switch, then an ethernet to USB A adapter, then into a quite elderly Mac laptop running DVS and Reaper. 3.5 hrs--dead sync all the way. No external clock on the Dante side at all. I realize this isn't news to a whole lot of you folks, but I was very glad to be able to prove to myself that this kind of thing will work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sonicfruit Posted October 19, 2023 Report Share Posted October 19, 2023 🤓 love this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek H Posted October 20, 2023 Report Share Posted October 20, 2023 This is great. I’m still working on feeling totally comfortable with Dante. A cart I work on sometimes has a Lectro D4 and every once and awhile it just doesn’t send audio to the Scorpio. Usually a power cycle fixes it. I’m sure there’s some reason why that happens though maybe it’s just a bug somewhere. Curious how many of you guys have gone through the various online training programs Audinate offers? Any Dante horror stories out there? I’m sure people have them… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Karlsson Posted October 20, 2023 Report Share Posted October 20, 2023 Yeah! Being an “analog person” myself, I was at first suspicious…. But a couple years ago I got very much into Dante and have already forgotten that I’m supposed to worry about it. I got level 2 certified, and re-did it again when the updated second edition came out. It’s free, and I highly recommend doing it. Level 3 goes way into network stuff - I started it, but decided it was too much for my purposes. Derek - no nightmares here. Maybe check that all of your devices are updated to latest firmware versions. Other than that, make sure the cables and the switch are in good shape. If it’s only a Scorpio and one DSQD, you don’t even need to keep the switch connected after you set it all up in Dante Controller - just hook the two together directly with a CAT6 cable and they will remember the connections you set up last time Dante Controller was connected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip Perkins Posted October 20, 2023 Author Report Share Posted October 20, 2023 For me--just the first level: I got lost pretty quickly in the 2nd tier. But the first level seems to contain most of what a humble location soundie needs to know. Now that I know I can make a basic system work in the shop, my fear of course is what would I do if I could not get something to connect out on a real job. The other bugaboo, which has been discussed here by people with real Dante experience, is dealing with issues caused by other people's networks (as in trying to patch into a live-sound rig). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Karlsson Posted October 20, 2023 Report Share Posted October 20, 2023 2 minutes ago, Philip Perkins said: For me--just the first level: I got lost pretty quickly in the 2nd tier. But the first level seems to contain must of what a humble location soundie needs to know. Yeah, I’m just nerdy and wanted to see how far I could go… But Level 2 actually had a few things I found useful to know, even though I probably won’t need to use most of it. But I’m like that with all gear and read the manual, because I hate “grey areas” - I want to know how everything works, darnit !!! Haha! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vincent R. Posted October 20, 2023 Report Share Posted October 20, 2023 5 hours ago, Derek H said: Curious how many of you guys have gone through the various online training programs Audinate offers? I have all 3; level 3 is really hardcore network stuff. I would say 1 and 2 is more than enough for location sound, 3 if you need to rig up complete congress centres, tv station networks or other large interconnecting projects/setups. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Farrell Posted October 20, 2023 Report Share Posted October 20, 2023 Dante uses PTP for sync which is more accurate than the traditional 48kHz word clock. I'm level 3 certified and have found any time I have an issue with dante it's because of a networking error which in practice means either it all works or it doesn't. Once you understand how to build a proper network, it is absolutely rock solid and dependable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Steel Posted October 20, 2023 Report Share Posted October 20, 2023 PTP is accurate in the sense that the follower clocks will be nearly perfect with the leader clocks (like word clock is), but PTP in and of itself does not guarantee that the leader clock's accuracy is sufficient to minimize drift. For the experiment @Philip Perkins performed, with only the AVIO and DVS in the system, the AVIO would be the clock leader (since DVS can only be a follower). The tight sync demonstrates that the specific AVIO adapter he used has a clock that is very close to his 744T. I would be curious about whether all AVIOs have that tight of a spec. Dante devices in my network vary by as much as +/-26ppm from each other as reported by Dante Controller. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip Perkins Posted October 20, 2023 Author Report Share Posted October 20, 2023 What devices are you speaking of re: +/-26ppm? Consoles? Preamps? Stage boxes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RadoStefanov Posted October 20, 2023 Report Share Posted October 20, 2023 what are you using to record? 20 hours ago, Derek H said: This is great. I’m still working on feeling totally comfortable with Dante. A cart I work on sometimes has a Lectro D4 and every once and awhile it just doesn’t send audio to the Scorpio. Usually a power cycle fixes it. I’m sure there’s some reason why that happens though maybe it’s just a bug somewhere. Curious how many of you guys have gone through the various online training programs Audinate offers? Any Dante horror stories out there? I’m sure people have them… Horror stories? A few. Mostly Apple dongle related. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
borjam Posted October 22, 2023 Report Share Posted October 22, 2023 Last Summer I tried several USB-C to Ethernet interfaces with a Macbook Pro. I was going to do something rather straightforward, recording a concert (16 channels over Dante from the stage preamps). I only found one combination to really work as it should. The old Apple Thunderbolt GbE adapter chained to a Thunderbolt 4 to Thunderbolt 2 adapter. The rest were a mixed bag and some of them outright catastrophic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RadoStefanov Posted October 22, 2023 Report Share Posted October 22, 2023 4 minutes ago, borjam said: Last Summer I tried several USB-C to Ethernet interfaces with a Macbook Pro. I was going to do something rather straightforward, recording a concert (16 channels over Dante from the stage preamps). I only found one combination to really work as it should. The old Apple Thunderbolt GbE adapter chained to a Thunderbolt 4 to Thunderbolt 2 adapter. The rest were a mixed bag and some of them outright catastrophic. I had a few instances with thunderbolt 2 adapter disconnecting. If it is ever my choice I would do a mac mini with actual integrated NIC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
borjam Posted October 23, 2023 Report Share Posted October 23, 2023 14 hours ago, RadoStefanov said: I had a few instances with thunderbolt 2 adapter disconnecting. If it is ever my choice I would do a mac mini with actual integrated NIC Ouch! There are several Thunderbolt to Ethernet adapters sold by Sonnet. I think the one sold as "AVB" has a Broadcom chip (well supported by Apple and others) would work as well without needing to chain dongles. But I haven't tried it. The Mac Mini option of course is the best option of course. The thing with Dante is, the protocol is not so complicated. But the market is littered with real networking junk which works well enough for the low end peecee market (or it doesn't work at all but unsuspecting customers don't know who is to blame). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RadoStefanov Posted October 23, 2023 Report Share Posted October 23, 2023 1 hour ago, borjam said: Ouch! There are several Thunderbolt to Ethernet adapters sold by Sonnet. I think the one sold as "AVB" has a Broadcom chip (well supported by Apple and others) would work as well without needing to chain dongles. But I haven't tried it. The Mac Mini option of course is the best option of course. The thing with Dante is, the protocol is not so complicated. But the market is littered with real networking junk which works well enough for the low end peecee market (or it doesn't work at all but unsuspecting customers don't know who is to blame). Everytime it was not chip based but hardware port loosing connection problem. I am on a show now with USBC/TB4 port to Nic adapter and it has not been an issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Steel Posted October 23, 2023 Report Share Posted October 23, 2023 On 10/20/2023 at 3:32 PM, Philip Perkins said: What devices are you speaking of re: +/-26ppm? Consoles? Preamps? Stage boxes? Those particular devices are Allen and Heath Dante 64 cards in a dLive console. If I'm properly interpreting what Dante Controller is telling me, the 26ppm would be the clock in the card, because the card is getting its clock from Dante, and the console is getting clock from the card. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Steel Posted October 23, 2023 Report Share Posted October 23, 2023 In terms of "horror stories" I have had a few struggles. Most of these are things that are related to to the fact that my devices are on a large general purpose network which I do not control. We have our own VLAN, but there can still be effects from interactions between other equipment and traffic types: * Late packets when there is heavy non-Dante traffic (like file copies) on a network without Quality of Service measures. * Discrepancies in the implementation of IGMP version compatibility modes between different devices. (See the Audinate FAQ about DVS on MacOS showing "Listening" status). * An as-yet-not-completely-diagnosed issue where devices lose sync from time to time. This might also be related to IGMP in some way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
borjam Posted October 23, 2023 Report Share Posted October 23, 2023 5 hours ago, RadoStefanov said: Everytime it was not chip based but hardware port loosing connection problem. I am on a show now with USBC/TB4 port to Nic adapter and it has not been an issue. Interesting. What chipset does it use? In my experience Realteks are a big no-no, AX88179A chipset (or, I guess, similar) works although not as well as the Thunderbolt attached Broadcom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RadoStefanov Posted October 23, 2023 Report Share Posted October 23, 2023 45 minutes ago, borjam said: Interesting. What chipset does it use? In my experience Realteks are a big no-no, AX88179A chipset (or, I guess, similar) works although not as well as the Thunderbolt attached Broadcom. Apple genuine thunderbolt2 to nic adapters Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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