Oliver Machin Posted December 2, 2011 Report Share Posted December 2, 2011 I think the difference in attitudes comes from a UK / US divide. In the US you have historically had to use multiple frequency blocks to operate multiple channels where as in the UK we have been happily able to operate 6 channels of Audio 2020 in the limited frequencies that were set aside by JFMG (UK CH 69). Now that radio mics and IEMs are moving to CH38 we will have the whole of CH38 (8mhz) dedicated to this use nationally. As such running 8 channels on a pre-determined intermod free frequency plan becomes very easy and that 8mhz will be clear right across the country. Most of the UK and EU manufacturers have intermod plans worked out that will accomodate 8-10 frequencies in the 8mhz block. In the US every location in every city is different because the RF is not regulated and controlled in the same way. you are constantly having to find small available windows of spectrum on a location by location basis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Wielage Posted December 2, 2011 Report Share Posted December 2, 2011 In the US you have historically had to use multiple frequency blocks to operate multiple channels where as in the UK we have been happily able to operate 6 channels of Audio 2020 in the limited frequencies that were set aside by JFMG (UK CH 69). I've generally been able to run 6 channels of Lectros in one block with no problems, and as many as 10, but I did have to do a scan beforehand and I was careful to avoid intermod. The proliferation of digital TV spectrum space has knocked out some UHF space in LA (as one example), but it's manageable at the moment. --Marc W. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonathan chiles Posted December 2, 2011 Report Share Posted December 2, 2011 Correct me if I'm wrong but even if a 8mhz space is allocated for radio mic use in a given country/area.. I dont think this means that those 8mhz are going to be clear. There are high powered transmissions coming from various sources such as Analog and DTV masts etc etc and there are harmonics created from multiple strong transmissions as well as the transmissions from your 50 or 100mW transmitters close by to the receivers. The Lectro scan feature is very valuable to me as it shows the RF present in the receiver at THAT time at THAT location. And that is what really seems to matter. My understanding of it anyways;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted December 2, 2011 Report Share Posted December 2, 2011 " Creating, using and sticking to intermod plans makes more efficient use of spectrum than the scan facility and picking a space. " Well, that depends on what you find at a given place at a given time " running 8 channels on a pre-determined intermod free frequency plan becomes very easy and that 8mhz will be clear right across the country. " That, too, depends. The Olympics will certainly be an example for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardMeredith Posted December 2, 2011 Report Share Posted December 2, 2011 I believe what Oliver is alluding to is that in a multi mic scenerio, then using a published intermod frequency plan is the most effective way to quickly (and prior to arriving on location) set your system up so that your own TX's will not interfere with each other. He is right - previously in the UK - we had reserved 1 x 8MHz block to use legally all over the country - most people could travel all over the UK and never have to change their frequencies - (I think some people forgot how to.....only joking). However with our changing spectrum, the new 8MHz block is having to be shared with other users, and people are having to search around for a free spot far more regularly than before. I think we can all agree that scanning is a very valuable feature that can identify unknown sources of RF in an environment, and I think to focus this discussion a clear definition needs to be made between RF artifacts caused by yourself from using multiple radio mic transmitters and random / stray RF caused by another source. I also refer to Marc W's post regarding use of 6 - 10 channels - No doubt using 411 receivers - we in the UK do not legally have access to this receiver and presently the dual SR receivers are not robust enough it seems, and the RF shortfalls multiply very quickly as you add more of your own transmit frequencies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted December 2, 2011 Report Share Posted December 2, 2011 IIRC, there are additional (to the 8 MHz open frequencies block) that you can specifically license. These would seem to be necessary for really large requirements, however I have been able to get more channels than spec'd into a 25 MHz block just by keeping the RX's physically apart a bit, thus hugely reducing actual (not theoretical!) intermod issues. This also applies if there are several separate users, like several ENG/EJ crews working separately, but near each other --say different places inside or near the same venue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Splendid Posted December 5, 2011 Report Share Posted December 5, 2011 This is disappointing to hear as these were going to be my next update for my talent mics…Please keep us updated Larry! I used the system as a camera hop last year and it was rock solid…much more so than my 2020's on ch69. Still love the 2020's tho…just a shame they cant be retuned to the new freq's... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarryF Posted December 5, 2011 Report Share Posted December 5, 2011 We should get results this week. However, we received several inches of snow last night and this morning (Mon 5 Dec) and that is going to slow things down a bit. New Mexico gets light snows generally and the cities don't have the equipment to clear the roads. We get as much moisture in a year as Chicago gets in one snowfall. Anyway, I'll post when I have something. Cheers (and Ho,Ho,Ho), Larry F This is disappointing to hear as these were going to be my next update for my talent mics…Please keep us updated Larry! I used the system as a camera hop last year and it was rock solid…much more so than my 2020's on ch69. Still love the 2020's tho…just a shame they cant be retuned to the new freq's... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason porter Posted December 5, 2011 Report Share Posted December 5, 2011 If it hasn't melted yet, I would love to see a pic! JP We should get results this week. However, we received several inches of snow last night and this morning (Mon 5 Dec) and that is going to slow things down a bit. New Mexico gets light snows generally and the cities don't have the equipment to clear the roads. We get as much moisture in a year as Chicago gets in one snowfall. Anyway, I'll post when I have something. Cheers (and Ho,Ho,Ho), Larry F Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarryF Posted December 12, 2011 Report Share Posted December 12, 2011 Status update: We are still working on the 6 layer RF board for the SR units. The new assembled boards have gotten through test, alignment and QC and will be put into SR units tomorrow. We will then do a second round of 8 channel walk tests in the Octopack setup and see where we are. As I said before, doing a new board takes longer than any other “fix” we could undertake. We should have some results by Wednesday. Best, Larry F Lectro Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DyerEar Posted December 13, 2011 Report Share Posted December 13, 2011 Greetings! I too have unfortunately been suffering many rf problems with my SR units and eagerly await the test results... Would it also be possible to perform the 8 channel tests out of an octopack setup with the sra's operating individually using the sma whip aerials you supply? Many of us use the systems like this - without the associated rf amps and extended aerial choice that the octopack opens the doors to... Fingers crossed for a future improvement and thank you for your efforts. Simon Dyer Status update: We are still working on the 6 layer RF board for the SR units. The new assembled boards have gotten through test, alignment and QC and will be put into SR units tomorrow. We will then do a second round of 8 channel walk tests in the Octopack setup and see where we are. As I said before, doing a new board takes longer than any other “fix” we could undertake. We should have some results by Wednesday. Best, Larry F Lectro Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Splendid Posted December 13, 2011 Report Share Posted December 13, 2011 Thanks for the update Larry. Still top of my list at the mo sure you guys will get it sorted for us! Status update: We are still working on the 6 layer RF board for the SR units. The new assembled boards have gotten through test, alignment and QC and will be put into SR units tomorrow. We will then do a second round of 8 channel walk tests in the Octopack setup and see where we are. As I said before, doing a new board takes longer than any other “fix” we could undertake. We should have some results by Wednesday. Best, Larry F Lectro Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted December 13, 2011 Report Share Posted December 13, 2011 " Would it also be possible to perform " You should have confidence that the excellent folks at Lectro know what they are doing, and will work it all out... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Bacon AMPS Posted December 14, 2011 Report Share Posted December 14, 2011 Hi Larry, Will these modifications be available to those of us that have already invested in UK 606 SR receivers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r.paterson Posted December 14, 2011 Report Share Posted December 14, 2011 Hello it is my understanding all block 606 receivers sold will get modification done under warranty regardless of when purchased as long as they are the block 606 sra...Richard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarryF Posted December 14, 2011 Report Share Posted December 14, 2011 Yes. LarryF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Bacon AMPS Posted December 14, 2011 Report Share Posted December 14, 2011 Great! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oliver Machin Posted December 14, 2011 Report Share Posted December 14, 2011 Fingers crossed that an engineering solution can be found... One concern that I have is that 8ch are made to work in an 8mhz window rather than just relying upon the whole 24mhz block. As previously mentioned 606-614mhz is the only bandwidth available nationally without a site specific licence in the UK. Audio Ltd, Micron, Audio Wireless and Sennheiser can all operate 8 intermod free frequencies within that 8mhz window subject to local RF conditions. For my part I am currently based in South Africa where there are reportedly regulations but since being here for the last wo years have not been able to find out what they are! What I do know is that SA is bidding to host a radio astronomy telescope array which will operate on 606-614mhz (the spectrum being vacated in the UK to make way for radio mics and IEMs). This will mean whilst working in SA I will have 16mhz available as opposed to the 8mhz in the UK when I am back there. With that all in mind I hope that the revised SRA RX can be relied upon to support 8 intermod free channels at 50mw in 606-614mhz and also support 8 or more frequencies at 100mw in a 16mhz window. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Bacon AMPS Posted December 15, 2011 Report Share Posted December 15, 2011 Hi Larry May also add my concerns that next year UK recordists will only legally have 606-614 without buying a site specific license which will mean that we'll often need to fit upto 8 channels between 606-614 at 50mW using my Lectrosonic radiomics on block 606. According to the new FreqFinder app nine intermod channels can be run on Lectrosonic Radiomics (site specific conditions allowing). These are 606.000, 606.400, 607.000, 607.800, 608.300, 609.900, 610.800, 612.500 and 613.600!? Like many UK recordists, when working on a shoot where lots of Radiomics are required I rely on an intermod frequency plan. The reason is that production companies often want you to arrive and start immediately! Setting your radiomics the night before to the intermod frequencies often works well (occasionally you need to change one or two if there is another crew filming nearby) as here in the UK the frequency range that our radiomics operate within is not crowded like the US with non-radiomic RF (tv transmitters, car alarms etc) as we are to believe is the case in the US. I look forward to hearing the availability of the SR modification and the publishing of a reliable Lectrosonic intermod frequency plan for block 606. Regards Matt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christian Spaeth Posted December 15, 2011 Report Share Posted December 15, 2011 will the SRa modification be exclusively applied to block 606 or also to other block units? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted December 15, 2011 Report Share Posted December 15, 2011 " will the SRa modification be exclusively applied " you really need to get to know Lectrosonics better... They will apply any fixes to any of their equipment that will benefit from them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christian Spaeth Posted December 15, 2011 Report Share Posted December 15, 2011 Hello it is my understanding all block 606 receivers sold will get modification done under warranty regardless of when purchased as long as they are the block 606 sra...Richard Yes. LarryF That's why I asked. More specifically: will this warranty fix be valid for all blocks SRa receivers? Maybe I am misunderstanding something but if say a block 21 SRa would benefit from this mod too then I'd like to know it will be under warranty before I buy some (unmodded) (which I am about to do). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted December 15, 2011 Report Share Posted December 15, 2011 (edited) AFAIK, Block 21, or most other SRa's are not having this issue, it is related strictly to Bl 606 units. Lectrosonics has an unimpeachable record of extending warranties when latent issues, requiring correction, are found. If there is actually a need for a "recall", that is, all (or certain) units need to come back and be fixed, then they take care of it. They have always gone above and beyond in customer service and support. The BEST in the Biz! Edited December 15, 2011 by studiomprd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Gilbert Posted December 15, 2011 Report Share Posted December 15, 2011 It's a problem that only applies to block 606 units. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christian Spaeth Posted December 15, 2011 Report Share Posted December 15, 2011 Got it. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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