Marc Wielage Posted January 31, 2012 Report Share Posted January 31, 2012 "A faggot in the meaning of "bundle" is an archaic English unit applied to various-sized collections of sticks" I guess that's how cigarettes came be called "fags" in England. A bundle of little (cancer) sticks. Worse than that. Some accounts have it that hundreds of years ago, homosexuals were literally burned at the stake -- like a bundle of sticks. I believe that's where the term originated (The Theodosian Code), though historians are divided on how accurate this was for England. It's offensive on a variety of levels, no better than the N word or other words used for various religions or races. I grew up in the south, and heard a lot of words like this in the 1960s, but I deliberately chose never to use them because I saw the damage they inflicted. I felt that way long before the term "politically correct" existed. So did my sister and brother, even though our parents were from another generation, where racist and sexist insults were an everyday part of life. I'm all for jokes and cartoons, but there's a line I won't cross, especially something that could be considered very hateful and hurtful. I recognize that Eric didn't make the image and didn't intend to stir things up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mirror Posted January 31, 2012 Report Share Posted January 31, 2012 http://en.wikipedia..../Faggot_(slang) Faggot, often shortened to fag, is a pejorative term and common slur used chiefly in North America against homosexual males.[3] Its pejorative use, broadly meaning a "repellent male",[4] has spread from the United States to varying extents elsewhere in the English-speaking world through mass culture, including movies, music, and the Internet. Oh my heck, can you give it a rest? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audio Daddyo Posted January 31, 2012 Report Share Posted January 31, 2012 Oh my heck, can you give it a rest? I grew up as a Jew in the 60s in New Jersey. I don’t look like the stereotypical Jew so I was able to hear many people including some of my school friends make anti-Semitic slurs not knowing I was Jewish. It was much too common than I would have ever expected. Yes it hurt. I even got into two fights in school because someone called me a Kike and the other a dirty Jew. If I grew up gay and had to hear the word faggot all the time it would have been equally hurtful. My parents taught me to treat all people with equal rights and respect and to stand up for those rights. My Mom didn’t only speak these words but put them into action. She in 1967 with one other B'nai B'rith friend and two members from the NAACP were arrested for protesting in a Diner whose owner would not serve …... and yes the owner used the "N" word. Those kinds of slurs are hateful and offensive. So I will give it a rest when people stop being anti-Semitic, racist or homophobic. Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mirror Posted January 31, 2012 Report Share Posted January 31, 2012 You are the only one on this thread wanting to keep this "fag" thing alive. You've not helping the cause. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurence Posted January 31, 2012 Report Share Posted January 31, 2012 Yes, he is helping the cause. Right on, Andy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stacysound Posted January 31, 2012 Report Share Posted January 31, 2012 Am I the only one who thinks this is offensive? Andy Appears that way Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taylormadeaudio Posted January 31, 2012 Report Share Posted January 31, 2012 You are the only one on this thread wanting to keep this "fag" thing alive. You've not helping the cause. Dead wrong Mirror, Not sure to which "cause" you're referring, but go back through and read the entire thread -- Andy is not the only one who feels like the OP contained offensive material. Yes, there is such a thing as free speech, and the concept can (and does) certainly spill over into forums like this (really great) one. That a person can't seem to differentiate between exercising free speech and essentially violating the rights of others by way of pushing this type of inane crap out into the light of day without any regard for how it will offend, reveals more about them than I care to know -- respect is waning. There is a line, and like Andy, I think it's been crossed. I suggest those who don't find the OP offensive take a few American history (and world history) and anthropology classes -- pay special attention to the sections on racism, WWII, and societal folkways, mores, taboos, etc.... or don't -- whatever -- ignorance is bliss, right? Yes we have amazing freedoms in this country. Please don't abuse them by condoning this kind of hatred. Andy is NOT alone in this, and I would venture to guess that upon completing a poll -- you might be surprised to find that you are in fact in the minority on this one. I don't think Andy is "trying to keep the whole Fag thing alive" so much as he's simply pointing out that the OP is offensive (whether intended or not) and he probably just wants to hear Eric say something like, "Sorry Andy, I can see where you're coming from -- I didn't intend to upset anyone in that way...". Perhaps Eric didn't even see the slur in question until it was pointed out, perhaps he saw it and didn't think it would cause that much commotion... either way, I think Andy has a valid gripe here, and is spot on in trying to point out the ugliness in the OP. I think the person who could most easily lay the whole thing to rest is the creator of the OP. ~tt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audio Daddyo Posted January 31, 2012 Report Share Posted January 31, 2012 Thank you to the people who spoke up and feel this is offensive. It is important that you do so and thank you especially to Tom (taylormadeaudio) who is much more articulate than I am. Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stacysound Posted January 31, 2012 Report Share Posted January 31, 2012 I feel like this thread has gone slightly off course… maybe just me... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old school Posted January 31, 2012 Report Share Posted January 31, 2012 I feel like this thread has gone slightly off course… maybe just me... Welcome to jwsound Stacy. That is what I like best about this joint, the free flow of thought that goes here, there, and everywhere. What I don't like is people hiding behind a handle and snarking at folks who state what they believe and believe what they say and are willing to put their name to their POV. CrewC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audio Daddyo Posted January 31, 2012 Report Share Posted January 31, 2012 I feel like this thread has gone slightly off course… maybe just me... This went off course when the author attached offensive slur to what was supposed to have been a humorous picture. I can only believe the creator of this picture is homophobic and hostile towards Gays. By allowing this picture to have value you are supporting that kind of narrow minded thinking. I don’t care how funny some of you might think it is. It has been stained by hate. Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Toline Posted January 31, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2012 A lesson has been learned. The picture that I posted that created this firestorm was CCP'd as you see it from another discussion group that I frequent. There was not one comment about it being offensive in any way shape or form by anyone who saw it there. In fact most thought it was funny. The members of that group are what you could call conservative, blue collar, America First, gun owners. For the most part they hate the current administration and in particular the President. If I posted many of the pictures & comments regarding immigration, the first family, congress, the liberal media, Hollywierd as they call it and anything that smacks of liberalism and alternate life style choices, your heads would explode. I'm sure some on here would paint me with the "guilty by association" brush which I would hope many of you know is not true. I'm an equal opportunity PITA. Now as to why I associate with a group like that is because it's primary purpose is about Trapshooting which is my hobby. Trapshooters.com is the trapshooters equivilent of JW sound. I go to that group to talk about the technical side of trapshooting not the political, personal, religious, etc comments posted which would make this group look like a scout meeting. Now it was my mistake in thinking that the members of this group would appreciate the PC-vs-Mac humor in the picture and could easily overlook the "word" someone had added to the original photo montage. In closing, I emailed that same picture to many of my family & friends of different political leanings, alternate lifestyle choices, religions, sexes, PC & Mac users alike and not one person complained or commented on the "word". So as to the lesson learned that is the title of this thread, in the future should I have any doubts about the appropriateness of a picture I will first submit it to the self appointed censors on this group for their legion of decency stamp of approval. P.S. I thought it was a funny comment on the PC/Mac head butting word or no word. Nothing more, nothing less. Eric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Steigerwald Posted February 1, 2012 Report Share Posted February 1, 2012 Words only have the power that you give them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mirror Posted February 1, 2012 Report Share Posted February 1, 2012 Words only have the power that you give them. My point exactly. By jumping up and down like a bunch of little girls trying to tattle to their mom you bring WAY too much power to an idiotic word. A word that was dragged into this forum by mistake, a word that NO ONE here is defending. NO ONE IS DEFENDING THE WORD. To bring your point up once or twice is one thing, but daddyo wants blood from someone. And to old school - I don't believe my previous posts were snarky at all. But I believe you are FAR too intolerant of my wish to remain anonymous. I don't have, nor expressed, any animosity towards anyone on this board, yet you feel anger towards me because you don't know my name. Kumbaya everybody. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taylormadeaudio Posted February 1, 2012 Report Share Posted February 1, 2012 Thank Jeff for editing the OP for us -- it says a lot about your character -- and your desire to find that balance between freedom of expression and... well, just taking something too far. As to the intent of the OP: I don't know, maybe astronauts are self-absorbed children. ~tt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audio Daddyo Posted February 1, 2012 Report Share Posted February 1, 2012 Thanks Jeff I do appreciate that you made the edit. Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old school Posted February 1, 2012 Report Share Posted February 1, 2012 Hey mirror, maybe it is all on my side. This is a limitation to this form of communication. Maybe if I heard you speak your comments I would feel different about them. As is, I do find them snarky reactions to others and not really contributions to subjects. Again, that may be all on my end. As for my intolerance, I do have plenty and have stated some of them on this forum, but none have anything to do with me not knowing you because I do know your name and what you do in sound game. I have not betrayed your desire to remain anonymous, that is for you to decide . What I do find it odd is that you are willing to say things behind a mask because you are afraid your comments may jeopardize future employment with others in the industry. Still a free country so do what you will but please recognize the fact that while I may not like this, I feel no anger toward you, just your style of interaction on jwsound. CrewC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyB Posted February 5, 2012 Report Share Posted February 5, 2012 I dunno. I've got a 7 year old PC that is humming along smartly. My friend has a 5 year old Mac that he constantly bitches about. Then again, my daughter's 2 year old PC laptop is a hot mess, mostly due to whatever she downloads without taking proper precautions. Anyway, yeah, the bad slang was uncalled for. Thought we were a little further along. Its not about free speech at all, its about hate speech, really. You're free to use words like that, but be prepared for the response when it comes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Steigerwald Posted February 5, 2012 Report Share Posted February 5, 2012 Its not about free speech at all, its about hate speech, really. You're free to use words like that, but be prepared for the response when it comes. That's it right there, hate speech. The op didn't post anything hateful. He posted what he found to be a funny bit to share, 'item of objection' unnoticed and unendorsed. There was no intent of hate or slur in his post directed at anyone, aside from a friendly dig at Apple. Whoever added that into the photo doesn't know any of us, we don't know them.. It's nothing more than a sad commentary on somebody's small mindedness. To take personal offense to the whole thing I just don't get. Sent from my iPhone while seated at the pc with a mbp, currently running windows, on the table next to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan McL Posted February 5, 2012 Report Share Posted February 5, 2012 Had to speak up: the creator of the artwork slipped a word into the image that--for its subtlety--is even more dangerous. Dangerous? Yes. Our brains pick up subtleties. There remain people capable of violence against 'other' and until the day we've evolved beyond the animal survival instinct to kill that which is different, it behooves us to be aware of subtle calls--intentional or not--to violence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Toline Posted February 5, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 5, 2012 Thank you John for seeing it for what it was. 70 posts and you're the only person who got it. I just wonder if the word in question was "gays" would there be the same response? Eric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audio Daddyo Posted February 5, 2012 Report Share Posted February 5, 2012 That's it right there, hate speech. The op didn't post anything hateful. He posted what he found to be a funny bit to share, 'item of objection' unnoticed and unendorsed. John I agree that “IF” the Original Poster had posted the picture containing “I’m a faggot” and had not noticed the slur then the intent would be of just humor. BUT the OP was aware of the slur contained in the picture before posting it on this forum. On Facebook in a thread that I participated in the OP admitted that he saw the words “I’m a Faggot” and decided to post it on jwsound anyway. So yes it definitely was noticed by the OP. Endorsed well maybe endorsed is too strong of a word. Maybe “allowing it” might be more accurate although not much better. Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taylormadeaudio Posted February 5, 2012 Report Share Posted February 5, 2012 Hey Steigs, I don't think anyone is taking offense to the whole thing (it's actually pretty funny without the 'slur' in question)... and I don't think anyone here is accusing Eric of having any kind of hatred or animosity toward any specific "demographic"... I just think there are some of us who (giving Eric the benefit of doubt) would like to know that Eric understands why it's not outside the realm of reasonable thinking to see why some people would take offense to the portion of the image in question. You guys are right -- it has gone on too far, but you can't in one hand ask someone to 'drop it' while on the other hand keep on trying to validate the offensive content. Just a thought, and my apologies for continuing to post here -- I will not belabor the issue any further. ~tt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Toline Posted February 5, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 5, 2012 John I agree that “IF” the Original Poster had posted the picture containing “I’m a faggot” and had not noticed the slur then the intent would be of just humor. BUT the OP was aware of the slur contained in the picture before posting it on this forum. On Facebook in a thread that I participated in the OP admitted that he saw the words “I’m a Faggot” and decided to post it on jwsound anyway. So yes it definitely was noticed by the OP. Endorsed well maybe endorsed is too strong of a word. Maybe “allowing it” might be more accurate although not much better. Andy Andy you've been beating this subject to death since I posted the picture way back when ever. Look once and for all I saw the faggot tag on the picture and decided to post it anyway because the over all picture was amusing. You've been questioning my intentions and reasons for doing it. I question your over the top continual resurection of this thread and motivations for doing it. One could easily question your reasons for not letting it go. It's a coloquial word used all the time in conversation. Get over it, move on. There are way more important things to do than to continue to debate this what ever it is. Eric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pverrando Posted February 6, 2012 Report Share Posted February 6, 2012 How to start a fight on the internet: 1. Express an opinion 2. Wait Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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