curleysound Posted January 30, 2008 Report Share Posted January 30, 2008 Has anyone experienced receiving extremely tinny audio through Cat5 systems? I'm sorry I didn't catch the name of the particular box I was using, but it had BNC video, and stereo RCA outputs. The audio coming out had to have a huge boost from 0-10Khz and have a low pass filter turned on at 10KHz just to sound normal. Could this be an artifact of the cat5 or the camera? It was a JVC GY-HD110U with the on camera mic only. Thanks Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Blankenship Posted January 31, 2008 Report Share Posted January 31, 2008 I hope this isn't too off-topic since the header is "CAT 5 distribution setups," but a lot of the discussion seems to concern the audio sent to video assist. Unless I need an extra wireless rig, I typically hand the video assist person a Lectro 205 receiver, power supply, and an output cable with adapters for whatever input he needs to run into. It's one less cable to run, he gets a good quality feed, and I don't have any concerns over ground loops. JB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glen Trew Posted January 31, 2008 Report Share Posted January 31, 2008 Hi John, There are two basic uses of CAT-5 cable that have been discussed here. One is using devices to convert audio and/or video signals to data that is sent along a CAT-5 cable to another device that converts the data back to analog. The other method (shown and described here: http://www.trewaudio.com/products/cat5_videoassist_kit.htm is simply using the four twisted pairs of the CAT-5 cable to send analog audio and/or video signals, just like an audio snake does. A small box with Baluns type transformers at each end allows very long cables to be used (in excess of 1000 feet) while maintaining high quality signals. This system allows two audio and two video signals to travel along a small CAT-5 cable. If you a running a video cable to video assist so that you can monitor picture, you might as well run a small cable instead that can send you two camera feeds, an audio send, plus an audio return for video playback. Check the link. It should be easier to understand. Glen Trew Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel McIntosh Posted April 22, 2009 Report Share Posted April 22, 2009 I am considering the Trew CAT-5 Video Assist Kit and would like to re-open this thread. How does this Muxlab system handle time code? Is there a cross-talk issue? And can any of the 4 ports be used for any combination of audio/video (e.g. can I have 3 video and 1 audio run, or 4 audio runs)? The time code question is the most important issue for my application. If there is cross-talk, is there a work-around? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Wexler Posted April 22, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 22, 2009 The time code question is the most important issue for my application. If there is cross-talk, is there a work-around? I have not tried it but I would assume that if you are sending timecode (as audio) down an mluticable, twisted pair, there is a good probability of cross talk because of the proximity of the conductors. I am sure someone can try this and at the very least do a listen test. Any of the Cat-5 balun setups will have the same characteristics. The Remote Audio video assist kit is very nicely done --- I use that setup and have used other setup as well, but have never tried to feed TC. - Jeff Wexler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roundbadge Posted April 23, 2009 Report Share Posted April 23, 2009 Ive been using the Trew audio system for a few weeks..love it. I also made my own custom outer box/shell/clamp setup for the baluns used for the Video assist cart. ..you never know at the end of a long day when someone pulls it off and accidentally leaves the little plastic box on the ground. basically some leftover aluminum square tubing from Industrial metal supply and a Matthews clamp so far the Video guys love it swapped out the included 2 footer RCA harness' for three footers.clamps anywhere to their cart. Scuse' the bad quality pic's. also haven't final sanded/powder coated it yet Cheers -Hunter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roundbadge Posted April 23, 2009 Report Share Posted April 23, 2009 another angle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whit Norris Posted April 30, 2009 Report Share Posted April 30, 2009 Jeff, I have been using the Balun boxes by Muxlab for over two years now. I have a second set that I purchased from Trew last year. I am only using it send audio and receive video from video assist. I have been very happy with the set up. The cable has been one of the challenges. It holds up very well even with vehicles running over it. What I have found challenging is to find soft cable that will lay down with out coiling up and making it a trip wire on the set, or having to tape it down along the route to video assist. The Remote Audio cable lays down with no problems. I have even chatted with Dean at Trew about where they purchase their cable, (I was wanting to get a spool of this grade and brand) but they even have issues of various suppliers having it in stock. Malcom love the boxes that were built for the Baluns! Whit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whit Norris Posted April 30, 2009 Report Share Posted April 30, 2009 Hunter, Sorry those were your pictures! Nice job! I might have to borrow that idea! Thanks, Whit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Wexler Posted April 30, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 30, 2009 I really like the whole balun setup for the feeds to and from video assist and I am also looking at building up a 4-way snake to remote the wireless receivers. I am not interested in going the full active Aviom route (CAT-5 distro) but being able to run 4 lines into the set from the cart on a single CAT-5 cable would be nice. I will put up some pictures when I finish that rig. I agree with you that finding a really supple and flexible yet durable cable is a challenge. Location Sound Corp. here builds custom CAT-5 cables with or without the Neutricon cables (Neutrik CAT-5 connectors) with a very flexible cable. I don't have any of these cables yet but they might be just what you're looking for. - Jeff Wexler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roundbadge Posted April 30, 2009 Report Share Posted April 30, 2009 The Remote Audio cable lays down with no problems. I have even chatted with Dean at Trew about where they purchase their cable, (I was wanting to get a spool of this grade and brand) but they even have issues of various suppliers having it in stock. Hey Whit.If your in town,I stumbled into finding duplicate runs[including the connectors] of the same exact 100 foot cables that Trew sent me from Electronic City out in Burbank cheers -h Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roundbadge Posted April 30, 2009 Report Share Posted April 30, 2009 I really like the whole balun setup for the feeds to and from video assist and I am also looking at building up a 4-way snake to remote the wireless receivers. I am not interested in going the full active Aviom route (CAT-5 distro) but being able to run 4 lines into the set from the cart on a single CAT-5 cable would be nice. I will put up some pictures when I finish that rig. I agree with you that finding a really supple and flexible yet durable cable is a challenge. Location Sound Corp. here builds custom CAT-5 cables with or without the Neutricon cables (Neutrik CAT-5 connectors) with a very flexible cable. I don't have any of these cables yet but they might be just what you're looking for. - Jeff Wexler Sounds great Jeff. let us know how it works out -hunter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DHolmes Posted May 1, 2009 Report Share Posted May 1, 2009 Jeff, The best cat5 I've come across is from a company named Gepco which is located in burbank next to the 5 just south of where burbank/victory join. This cable, a crimper and connectors, ask for E-Z type, from pac radio and your set. Good luck, David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel McIntosh Posted May 1, 2009 Report Share Posted May 1, 2009 This is the setup built by Steven Zuch in NY. Below is an email I received from him. The Baluns boards are manufactured by ETS. The audio lines use transformers designed for audio and the video lines use transformers specifically for video. That is not to say that you couldn't run audio on video or vice versa. But I'm sure frequency response and signal quality may be compromised. Balun transformers are available to suit many specific audio and video requirements. I had ETS make these specifically for me. I didn't just buy them retail and unsolder all the unused connectors or add more connectors to connectors. The 4 pigtails that exit my boxes are very well strain relieved. The lower 0.75" of each metal box is filled with Epoxy insuring excellent strain relief for a "no fail" lifetime. The pigtails are about 18 - 20" long. I figured they could always be made shorter. If there is a request for a different termination on the pigtails, I would be glad to accommodate. The XLR's are male to female along each channel. Hence, each box has a male and female XLR that corresponds to the opposite XLR gender on the other box. I have sold these units to Michael Lonsdale, Dean Sarjeant, William Tzouris, David Moshlak, Tony Starbuck, and Larry Loewinger to name a few. (sorry if I left anyone out) Gotham Audio started out as an exclusive dealer. We terminated that relationship amicably. I still hold Peter Schneider in high regard and have sold a few units to Gotham recently. If you or anyone has any questions, please feel free to contact me by email or on my cell. Respectfully, Steven Zuch szuch@optonline.net (646) 772-0420 cell (631) 367-7112 home Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Wexler Posted May 1, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 1, 2009 This is the setup built by Steven Zuch in NY. Below is an email I received from him. The Baluns boards are manufactured by ETS. The audio lines use transformers designed for audio and the video lines use transformers specifically for video. I had ETS make these specifically for me. I didn't just buy them retail and unsolder all the unused connectors or add more connectors to connectors. Steven Zuch szuch@optonline.net (646) 772-0420 cell (631) 367-7112 home ETS is the company that makes the 4-way box with pigtails that I was going to use for my set snake. I was just planning to repackage to suit my needs. What Steve Zuch has done looks really good --- very rugged and purpose built for audio-video over CAT-5. Is he selling these? - Jeff Wexler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel McIntosh Posted May 1, 2009 Report Share Posted May 1, 2009 Steven does sell them, made to order with choice of termination connectors. I, however, have not had the opportunity to get my hands on one to test if there is a problem with crosstalk or bleed if time code is sent down one of the audio leads. *HINT* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikefilosa Posted May 1, 2009 Report Share Posted May 1, 2009 Jeff and all.... Since the origins of this thread, I have selected, and have been using, balun boxes made by CE Labs.... they are robust metal boxes with 4 lines and have been rock-solid... Regarding cable, I used stuff off the shelf from Fry's, and I felt early on that this stuff was risky - It just wouldn't string out very cleanly... almost unsafe and ready to snare the unlucky passerby... Awhile back, somebody on the group had mentioned "tactical CAT5"... I thank them for this tidbit.. I got a bunch assembled from GEPCO - their brand of wire built with Neutricons - and could not be happier... This stuff behaves much better, and can truly take a beating.... I don't worry about it at all. I also bought a several Neutricon CAT5 panel mount connectors, and mounted them into small electrical boxes with faceplates... I use a short jumper form this box to connect to the CE Labs box... This way I don't fumble with the connector's "underneath" position, ( I mounted the CE Labs box upright) and get I nice direct head-on connection. I strongly recommend the extra investment in Tactical CAT5, and Neutricon connectors... well worth the cost. Mike Filosa, CAS Atlanta Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikewest Posted May 1, 2009 Report Share Posted May 1, 2009 Mike, The two video channel baluns I use also carry audio so I guess LTC time code feeds would be viable. Have not had the need to try it! mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glen Trew Posted May 1, 2009 Report Share Posted May 1, 2009 The video channels on baluns boxes I have evaluated will pass audio, but the audio channels will not pass video. Just be aware that the video channels are 75 ohms, which will considerably load down standard line level outputs. However, if using the headphone outputs of a device for return monitoring, a 75 ohm input will probably be a more efficient circuit (resulting in a hotter signal). Also, the transformers in the video channels do not completely isolate, but the transformers in the audio channels do. Glen Trew Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel McIntosh Posted July 25, 2009 Report Share Posted July 25, 2009 Update of the CAT 5 interface: I commissioned Steven Zuch to assemble a custom CAT 5 interface box. I had him terminate one of the XLR lines with the Neutrik convertCON. This allows that line to be used as a send or a return. The extra length on the video cables is so the box can be mounted lower on the cart and the video runs can reach the monitors at eye level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigmaho Posted July 26, 2009 Report Share Posted July 26, 2009 Hi Jeff, When I bought my balun boxes I also bought a 1000' of cheepo cat 5 cable. I'm amazed how well it holds out! On my first day with the Cat 5 on American Gangster I ran out a 200' cable. The car guys decided to route a convoy of Army 2.5 ton trucks over my cable. They did this for hours. The cable never gave up and I'm still using that particular piece today, over 2 years later. I don't use heavy duty cable or connectors. Billy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RPSharman Posted July 26, 2009 Report Share Posted July 26, 2009 My question is about wrapping CAT5 cable. The only experience I have had with this sort of cable is for home data use, and it seems that it would be hard to wrangle. Do you guys have any particular brands that you can recommend or recommend against buying. The history of this thread gives few specifics other than where it was bought. Also, do you find wrapping in one direction better, or do you over-under like audio cable? I love to be far away from the "village" and am keen to learn more about these systems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Blankenship Posted July 26, 2009 Report Share Posted July 26, 2009 Robert, You want cable with stranded conductors, not solid ones. Once you get it "trained" it lays out well and winds up nicely; you'll be pleased. John B. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darren Posted July 26, 2009 Report Share Posted July 26, 2009 100 Meters of stranded Cat5. No muss, no fuss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Blankenship Posted July 26, 2009 Report Share Posted July 26, 2009 Darren, I like the reel. Where did you get it? Thanks, John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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