Michael Miramontes Posted August 10, 2015 Report Share Posted August 10, 2015 I recently did a gig in the desert and unfortunately my gear got dust/sand in it. Some of my laptop buttons and mouse pad don't work now and a few of my TRX900's won't eject the cards. So, looks like I need to tear all my gear apart and clean the heck out of it. Since I've never had to charge a cleaning fee before I figured I'd ask ya'll to see what's fair so I can hit up production. Any info is appreciated. Thanks, Michael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Toline Posted August 10, 2015 Report Share Posted August 10, 2015 Unless you're going to claim L & D I would forget about a cleaning fee. That would be a petty thing to do and could cost you your client. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Miramontes Posted August 10, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 10, 2015 Unless you're going to claim L & D I would forget about a cleaning fee. That would be a petty thing to do and could cost you your client. Hmm, I was wondering if I was being a bit much. I remember doing a job years ago in which the producer asked us to move the shot to a beach. The steady cam op said "If I'm having to take my gear on the sand then I'm charging a cleaning fee". I do remember the guy being somewhat of a dick and you're right I didn't see him on any gigs thereafter. I just wasn't sure if it was the norm to charge a fee like this when dealing with sand getting everywhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Blankenship Posted August 10, 2015 Report Share Posted August 10, 2015 I think it depends. How long was the gig? If just a single day, a fee is pushing it. Have you spoken to them about a maintenance fee? (I would refer to it as a "maintenance fee" rather than a "cleaning fee.") What about camera? Did the production expect to pay for restorative camera maintenance? If you determine it is appropriate to charge them, base it on the time it takes. In reality, if they're okay with a fee, in some instances recouping costs might be easier if the gear went to the respective manufacturers and you could present invoices, as opposed to doing it yourself -- even though the fee would be substantially higher. It definitely depends upon several conditional factors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshua Anderson Posted August 10, 2015 Report Share Posted August 10, 2015 I usually draw a line after "normal wear and tear." I feel like equipment used in an appropriate or normal manner will have some wear and tear which I am responsible for. That's what rental fees cover. But beyond that wear and tear, an L&D is filled out and production should pay for it. That's the case when things break. If something breaks, and I can fix it or clean it and I don't need to send it in to someone else, then that sort of brings it back into normal wear and tear. Again, that's the rental charge covering basic maintenance. Even if my maintenance is someone else's repair or vice versa. Extreme situations, which sand could be considered sometimes, could be considered beyond wear and tear. Sand in the gear can be damaging. But then you should probably send it in to someone. Sort of like enlisting an independent 3rd party to identify damage and then repair it. If you aren't sending it in, but charging them for your cleaning time, you're charging them twice for maintenance, in a way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CraigF Posted August 10, 2015 Report Share Posted August 10, 2015 You should have a basic cleaning cost built into your rate based on the amount of time you think it will take you to do it all, like a half day at the end of the project Knowing you are going to an ex-stream environment (desert, beach, etc.) pad some more time to equal what you think it is going to take. On a location change to an ex-stream environment just say it will add x hours for work they are not going to see in wrap up cleaning time or the whole kit gets D&Led. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarcanon Posted August 10, 2015 Report Share Posted August 10, 2015 Not saying you should handle it this way, but if it were me, if I hadn't disclosed that kind of potential fee in advance with client, I wouldn't feel right springing it on them after the fact. If I'd known (or should have known) that my gear was going into to a potentially risky environment (like the beach, desert, on a boat, etc), I would feel it was incumbent upon me to raise the prospect of extraordinary costs in advance with the producer. On the other hand, if they told me the location was a going to be a studio, and at the last minute, changed their minds and told me I was going to be shooting whales from a dinghy, that would be a different matter entirely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Miramontes Posted August 10, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 10, 2015 Everyone has made a lot of valid points: 1. My rental fee should already take into account my maintenance 2. Extra fees should be discussed in advance The only problem with #2 is that I wasn't aware of what I was doing until I was on the job. Since the Producer is a regular client that I like very much, and I wasn't given any details till I was on the job (it was one of those "top secret product" type commercials), I didn't really have a chance to discuss any additional fees. Lesson learned though. On wrap day I did mention to her that I may have to charge a cleaning fee in which she said she was fine with considering the extreme environment. I felt guilty having to ask after the conversation but the other voice in my head said business is business and my gear is all crummy now. This is why I needed some advice. I guess what I'm going to do, so that I don't sound petty, is send my invoice and advise the Producer that this time around I'm going to waive the cleaning fee. However, going forward I'll need her to give me a heads up, if I'm working in extreme situations, since my gear rental is going to have to be adjusted accordingly. Thanks again for all the advice/input everyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip Perkins Posted August 10, 2015 Report Share Posted August 10, 2015 On some low-budg shoots many decades ago an after-maintenance fee was paid, since we were working dirty and wet (and the rates were way low). I've also had this kind of thing as part of prenup negotiations when we knew the gear would get very dirty. But those were all negotiated before hand, or before that part of the job was done. That said--if you bring back gear to a rental house and it REALLY needs a lot of work to be made rental ready (esp disassembly and repair) you can bet you'll be hearing from them re extra charges. p Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason porter Posted August 10, 2015 Report Share Posted August 10, 2015 If they are willing to pay something (like you indicated) take them up on the offer. Your relationship with them is a two-way street and I bet they are happy to help you out. Personally, I would be happy to clean my gear on my own time...but that's just me. If I had to have it professionally cleaned, I'd appreciate a bump from the prod co (even if it just covered a part of the fee) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angelo Waldron Posted August 10, 2015 Report Share Posted August 10, 2015 Maybe your producer held back details about the 'super-secret shoot' because he knew. I say anytime beach, desert, wind, water..... use rental gear. It's murder on the camera which I have seen the 'afterward' and the person doing the cleaning made it worse. Seek professional help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason porter Posted August 10, 2015 Report Share Posted August 10, 2015 Yeah, a $30 000 ENG lens that grinds when you turn the focus ring...you know they are paying to clean/fix it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mirror Posted August 12, 2015 Report Share Posted August 12, 2015 On features and TV shows it's not uncommon to have your gear returned to the sound shop for a cleaning after such an extreme environment and have production pay for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old school Posted August 12, 2015 Report Share Posted August 12, 2015 Anytime you go to the desert you should know the gear will take a beating Michael. Many good companies know that and offer a cleaning fee. Never hurts to ask (before the gig) about this. Always do your best to cover and protect your gear on the day. In commercial world our gear rates are high enough to cover the time spent cleaning the rig but that doesn't mean we shouldn't charge a cleaning fee. Have a friendly talk with your production team. Can't hurt. CrewC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ao Posted August 23, 2015 Report Share Posted August 23, 2015 Yeah, a $30 000 ENG lens that grinds when you turn the focus ring...you know they are paying to clean/fix it. jason and I work with some of the same clients that can send you to extreme locations. I had some saltwater exposure that I was waffling about asking the production about cleaning/repairing until I heard that they were on the hook for $15,000 of lens repairs. my cleaning issue turned out to be a $1000 meter bridge repair, which seemed small by comparison. with most folks having access to smartphones these days, the important thing is to document an issue right away with the production, then decide which way to handle it, once the diagnosis is in. no one likes a surprise, after the fact. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VASI Posted August 23, 2015 Report Share Posted August 23, 2015 Isn't enough the 300+ dollars (equipment rent) per day to clean your equipment? I'm trying to understand the logic behind this decision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CraigF Posted August 23, 2015 Report Share Posted August 23, 2015 Isn't enough the 300+ dollars (equipment rent) per day to clean your equipment? I'm trying to understand the logic behind this decision. it should be for an average job but a 1 day job subjugated to a sand storm or salt water spray where all the gear need to be opened up (not just dusted off), no Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VASI Posted August 24, 2015 Report Share Posted August 24, 2015 Isn't on "terms & conditions" this? Or in insurance paper? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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