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Lectrosonics DPR vs Audio ltd. A10


TimMey
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Hey there,

 

i try to decide to go Lectro or Audio for the boom.

(Sooner or later i also wanna upgrade the bodypacks, but i better wait till there´s sth smaller available than the A10s. Digital SSM´s would be great... ;) )

 

Has anybody had the chance to compare these two?

What do you like/dislike about the units? Experiences?

Pro´s and Con´s?

 

Thanks and stay healthy. Tim

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I filled in for someone using a10s and I thought they sounded fantastic. Rage was fairly underwhelming though. “Meh” on fins, “poor” on whips. I use Lectros and rarely struggle with range and think they also sound fantastic. Just a slightly different fantastic sound.

 

Do you love somewhere that you can compare the two yourself? Most dealers are more than happy to let you try stuff, especially if you’re planning to purchase something.

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I´m guessing they are quite similar soundwise. Means absolutely great. That´s a point that makes me wanna switch.

But trying stuff at home is not the same than being in real shooting situations. That´s why i´m asking for real experiences.

 

It probably also comes down to other things....:

All my wireless is Lectros right now. The backward compatibility from Lectrosonics makes it much easier to switch to new products seamlessly.

On the downside Lectro doesn´t have any digital wireless above Block 23 by now and audio ltd. can transmit and record at the same time...

But a comparison of range (unter the same conditions) for example would be a very valuable point for me.

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10 hours ago, Trey LaCroix said:

I filled in for someone using a10s and I thought they sounded fantastic. Rage was fairly underwhelming though. “Meh” on fins, “poor” on whips. I use Lectros and rarely struggle with range and think they also sound fantastic. Just a slightly different fantastic sound.

 

This was using the A10 on talent? Theoretically they'll do better on the boom though? As higher up in the air, less obstructed by big fat bags of water. 

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5 minutes ago, IronFilm said:

This was using the A10 on talent? Theoretically they'll do better on the boom though? As higher up in the air, less obstructed by big fat bags of water. 

On talent and boom. Yes, boom was obviously better but I really wasn’t impressed with the TX on talent.

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12 hours ago, Trey LaCroix said:

On talent and boom. Yes, boom was obviously better but I really wasn’t impressed with the TX on talent.

 

Thank you, this is a really helpful discussion for me as well. And if you don't mind I'd appreciate a bit of detail on the situations where you were disappointed with  the A10s performance...

If outdoors, what sort of distances / ranges are we talking about? If indoors, was this a problem with walls, floors, etc? Anyway, any information you care to share very much appreciated -

 

thx

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I’ve rented the A10’s before to supplement my Zax kit. Similar observations regarding range.

Is there a reason you’re not considering Zaxcom? Their solutions pretty much tick every check box that you mention: built in recorder (TC stamped), great dedicated boom TX, or phantom two which you could do both boom and lav and is small like SSM

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10 hours ago, petersont said:

 

Thank you, this is a really helpful discussion for me as well. And if you don't mind I'd appreciate a bit of detail on the situations where you were disappointed with  the A10s performance...

If outdoors, what sort of distances / ranges are we talking about? If indoors, was this a problem with walls, floors, etc? Anyway, any information you care to share very much appreciated -

 

thx

It was useable with fins. Just lacking a bit compared to my Lectros. But with whips I had dropouts as early as 20ish feet line of sight. It seemed to have a harder time blasting through the water bags that are our bodies compared to other wireless.

 

I believe Moe Chamberlain (a members here) uses them and could speak in far greater detail on the a10’s performance.

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Can't say much about boom use, but I'm happy to share my experience.

I'm using A10s on talent and I'm reasonably happy. I find myself wishing I had more range, at least with whips. I've been able to get as much as ~60m on high power outside in a free field at a clean, co-ordinated frequency with line of sight in a real situation, but I've also had some trouble with ranges as short as 6-10m in an apartment. One time I was almost totally wiped out by other RF when recording in a metal framed ferris wheel at about 3-4m away, I think there was a GSM transmitter quite close by. When the signal is there - it sounds fantastic with Core 4060s. When there are problems, it doesn't sound as weird as analog wireless can sound, it's either pristine or nothing. Thus far I haven't had a job that I couldn't get done with the A10s. I've had them out on maybe 10 gigs, mostly bag work for non-scripted content. Haven't tried timecode synced recording yet. On my previous job with them, I managed to set gains and frequencies for 2 talent without touching anyone or bothering them beyond asking them to stand still for ~10-20 seconds.

I'm thinking things should improve with better antennae and a filtering distro, but honestly, I'm a bit on the fence on whether I should invest more in A10s or perhaps even switch to Lectro. I love the A10 Remote app for talent use, especially in the time of Covid19, it works very well if you reset it each time you use it. The last time I used Lectros for talent I kinda missed my A10s a little.

I haven't managed to update to the latest firmware that's supposed to increase range, I've heard it's good though.

Edited by Ilari Sivil
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As pointed out here Zaxcom wireless has everything nailed down with nearly 20 years of digital transmission experience. Zaxnet links recorders wireless mics and IFB into a system with unique and powerful capabilities. Wireless time code sync with no need to jam, Transmission reliability, remote control from great distances, recording transmitters, excellent audio quality, crazy small transmitters, multiple transmitter and receiver options, remote replay and re-record and most important, a great dealer in Ambient. I hope you will attend the CAS discussion this Saturday to find out how our system works and hear the opinions of some of our power users from around the world. 
 

Glenn Sanders

President Zaxcom Inc. 

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Thanks Glenn,

 

i will keep that in mind and think about it again.
Zaxcom has great products and great features, there’s no doubt about it. I think it’s amazing, if you go zaxcom with all your gear to enjoy all the advantages and capabilities in one „eco-system“.


But if you’re already invested in another recorder and other gear with SuperSlot Sl6/A10 Rack for example, it‘s not easy to switch step by step at that point...

Greetings from Germany and thanks for all your input.
This side is really helpfull, thanks so much to everybody 🙏🏼

 

 

 

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5 hours ago, TimMey said:

But if you’re already invested in another recorder and other gear with SuperSlot Sl6/A10 Rack for example, it‘s not easy to switch step by step at that point...

I agree! But.... the newly hinted at Zaxcom RX4 should make that transition just slightly easier to achieve once the RX4 is available. 

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On 8/25/2020 at 2:51 AM, TimMey said:

Thanks Glenn,

 

i will keep that in mind and think about it again.
Zaxcom has great products and great features, there’s no doubt about it. I think it’s amazing, if you go zaxcom with all your gear to enjoy all the advantages and capabilities in one „eco-system“.


But if you’re already invested in another recorder and other gear with SuperSlot Sl6/A10 Rack for example, it‘s not easy to switch step by step at that point...

Greetings from Germany and thanks for all your input.
This side is really helpfull, thanks so much to everybody 🙏🏼

 

 

 

not to side track the discussion but i used zaxcom wireless with my other non-zaxcom recorders and enjoyed all of the things you seek and it worked flawlessly. started with the qrx235 (block specific but gives you zaxnet to control TX’s remotely) and added rx/qrx 200’s and linked them to the 235. all my inputs left at unity (analog) or digital ins and i would just control the gain remotely.

that being said, i do love the Audio Ltd 2040’s. all the high end wireless sounds pretty darn good though. you could probably pick up some used zax gear and save some $$$$$.

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  • 4 months later...
On 1/14/2021 at 2:56 AM, roundbadge said:

Ive been experimenting using A10's side by side with DPR-a's running booms.

they do sound slightly different

.

both sound good but the A10 sounds a little better to my ears..a bit more natural,fuller in the lower midrange.

the DPR is a slightly little more rolled off below 120hz.

Hi roundbadge, 

 

It may be interesting to note that the DPR system is quite flat in the low frequencies (see below trace showing frequency and phase response), especially when the HPF is set to 25 Hz (lowest setting). That said, there is a gentle rolloff down to -3 dB at 20 Hz. Perhaps the A10 has a slight bump in the lower frequencies? Nothing wrong with that - the goal is of course for these things to "sound good" which is certainly a subjective thing. 

 

phase measurements DPR DSQD.png

 

 

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  • 1 month later...
On 1/14/2021 at 10:56 AM, roundbadge said:

Ive been experimenting using A10's side by side with DPR-a's running booms.

they do sound slightly different

.

both sound good but the A10 sounds a little better to my ears..a bit more natural,fuller in the lower midrange.

the DPR is a slightly little more rolled off below 120hz.

 

 

Thanks for the Input. I still try to decide...

 

Recently I read a lot about RF-Noise (or hiss) with the A10s and i wonder, if there is a solution for this after all. Since i have several Mini-Cmit (all on different Cinelas, mounted with Quicklocks) and i want to keep this setup, is there anyone with the same setup and has problems?

I know, there are some special (shielded) cables and chips from Audio Ltd. and you can also modify your Cinelas, but i rather like NOT to HAVE to do it. ;)

 

I know, the RF-spreading is a digital issue and i heard it on Zax as well, when the mic was to close to the Plug-on TX.

Is it the same with the DPR Plug-on? Can anyone confirm this?

And why is the DPR-A with the external antenna not available in Europe?

 

 

Thanks very much everybody !

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Hello Tim,

 

I can’t speak to the DPR situation, but I might be able to shed some light on the A-10 RF hiss. We too encountered this on our Schoeps CMIT and 641’s when we first started using the A-10’s.

Our CMIT’s are also in Cinelas.

First off, the original cables that Audio Ltd offered (with the blue cap) provided less RF shielding than their subsequent, more robust cable. These are a tad thicker and longer than the originals, and we have had zero problems since.

Another thing to remember is to keep the cables extended down the boompole, away from the mic as elegantly as you can (we often secure with a small rubber hair tie). Keeping them straight and not twisted around the TX antenna helps tremendously.

And finally, for best performance, keeping the RF power setting to low seems to work extremely well. We have noticed zero range issues when at this setting.

Something else to consider is the vintage of the mics you’re using. With my older Neumann 81’s and 82’s, we noticed a grounding hiss that was alleviated when we placed a small piece of electrical tape over the Neutrik female connector solved the problem. Why? Who knows! 

With your CMIT’s, and my modern vintage Schoeps, this wouldn’t be necessary.

Here’s hoping this helps.

 

Moe

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1 hour ago, Constantin said:

With the DPR so far I have never encountered any RF noise. Absolutely none. That’s with a CMIT, CMK641, a DPA4017 and 4018

 

Wow, that´s interesting. Why is that? I thought this is a "digital issue", so every unit has to deal with it. Maybe @karlw can clear this up a little?

 

 

5 hours ago, Moesound said:

Hello Tim,

 

I can’t speak to the DPR situation, but I might be able to shed some light on the A-10 RF hiss. We too encountered this on our Schoeps CMIT and 641’s when we first started using the A-10’s.

Our CMIT’s are also in Cinelas.

First off, the original cables that Audio Ltd offered (with the blue cap) provided less RF shielding than their subsequent, more robust cable. These are a tad thicker and longer than the originals, and we have had zero problems since.

Another thing to remember is to keep the cables extended down the boompole, away from the mic as elegantly as you can (we often secure with a small rubber hair tie). Keeping them straight and not twisted around the TX antenna helps tremendously.

And finally, for best performance, keeping the RF power setting to low seems to work extremely well. We have noticed zero range issues when at this setting.

Something else to consider is the vintage of the mics you’re using. With my older Neumann 81’s and 82’s, we noticed a grounding hiss that was alleviated when we placed a small piece of electrical tape over the Neutrik female connector solved the problem. Why? Who knows! 

With your CMIT’s, and my modern vintage Schoeps, this wouldn’t be necessary.

Here’s hoping this helps.

 

Moe

 

Thanks Moe, every information is helpful and welcome. I appreciate it.

I already heard, that you can have good results with the LO-power settings at 10 mw. On the other hand, i also read about people noticing the hiss on Cmit´s and even the MKH50! 

Regarding range..., mounted up on a boom pole, range should be good anyway.

I have (and will keep) Lectros HM´s and i absolutely don´t like to worry about range in any given situation. Would be interesting to compare these two (Audio on 10mW). But even, if the A10 can deliver the same range on 10mW, i would always think, would could be possible on 50mW without hiss.... ?

Another move to get rid of the hiss would be to mount the TX as far away as possible from the mic. But since i´m using Quicklocks mounted directly to the Cinelas i´m limited in this way....

Kind of sad

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I should add that my DPR is not noise-free, it just doesn't have the typical digital interference noise. The noise is does have could be a result of the digital interference, but I don't know that. I didn't have terrible problems with the A10 with that kind of noise either, so either I'm not listening right, or my mics have better RF shielding, or I just got lucky. 

It's more likely to be due to the mic's shielding than to anything at the transmitter, I suspect, but I'm not sure. 

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Every setup, needs and ears are different of course.

In the end i probably have to give it a try and listen, compare and eventually judge by myself within my own setup i guess...

 

Thanks very much everybody for their thoughts and help!

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