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Adapting Sennheiser G3 wired mics for use with Sony UWPs


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I have a couple of Sony UWP wireless systems and I love them. However, I've found that the biggest downside to using them is that few rental houses carry mics wired for Sony. Here's my question: would it be possible to make an adapter that allowed G3 wired mics to be used on a Sony UWP transmitter?

These links from Sanken make me think that it is possible:

http://www.sanken-mi...index.cfm/11.27 (Diagram for wiring a Cos-11 pigtail for a Sony UWP)

http://www.sanken-mi...index.cfm/11.25 (Diagram for wiring a Cos-11 pigtail for a Sennheiser G3)

The wiring styles are different (2-wire vs 3-wire) but it looks like the only physical difference in the wiring is that the ring and the tip are reversed. So just make an adapter that swaps the ring and tip signals, right?

Or is it not that simple? I suppose it usually isn't.

Anyway, any input would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

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You'll need a 3.5mm TRS female wired for the 3 wire Sony setup. The cable from the female goes to a 3.5mm TRS male wired for the 2 wire Sennheiser tx. That way the Sanken can be used with a Sony tx w/o the adapter and with the adapter for Sennheiser 2 wire system. I can make you one if you want.

Eric (who's not afraid to post his email address)

audioetc@bellsouth.net

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My question is, why would you ever need the adapter? If you already have the UWP-V1 units, purchase mics for those units and have them wired for Sony. Pro-Sound, B&H and even Oscar Sound Tech will all wire mics for you for the Sony units. I guess my point is, if you're going to own the units, you should replace the stock mics as quickly as possible, and then wouldn't need a rental house to provide mics.

I just got the price list from OST and they are crazy affordable. At the cost of renting mics, you could purchase OST mics for your units after just a couple times of renting.

My $0.02.

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  • 5 years later...

Thought I'd bump this thread to ask if anyone has since made a small adapter for Sony to Sennheiser? (or the reverse)

As would be very handy indeed for those of us who have a mix of Sennheiser/Sony wireless. (or in my case where I have nearly all Sony, but if I need extras then a few more Sennheiser G3 is easy enough to borrow/beg/steal/rent, while Sony UWP-D11 is kinda nearly non-existent if I needed a few more of them specifically)

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  • 1 year later...

I'm posting this here for what it's worth. I was looking for the same thing recently because I want to buy used mics, which are all Sennheiser connectors. I've seen zero Sony wired ones used. Anyway, I found a link to a seller on Ebay that makes adapters. They are based in the UK, so the price is a bit excessive if you're in the states. I thought about making an adapter myself, but the threaded female jack is hard to find in the US for some reason.

Anyway, I have no affiliation with these guys, but I only found them after an excessive amount of googling, and since this is the first post that popped up in my initial search, thought I might be able to save someone a headache. I didn't buy the adapter myself (gonna just try and rewire the mic itself). If the listing disappears, the seller is micronic007

https://www.ebay.com/itm/3-5mm-SCREW-LOCKING-JACK-MICROPHONE-SOCKET-ADAPTER-TO-SONY-WRT-UTX-TRANSMITTERS/273219881400?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649

 

And here's a video that might help, though it's using a TA5F
Wiring a Sanken COS11d Lav to a TA5F Connector 

 

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Sennheiser wired lavs to work with Sony wireless? Easiest thing to do is open the connector and unsolder the wire going to the tip and solder to the ring and you're done. From the solder side here's the diagram:

 

*Tip-short tab       *Ring-long tab 

 

                     *Ground tab w/ cable clamps

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  • 2 weeks later...

Before I start soldering away, I wanted to make sure I’m clear on the method here. Attached is a photo of a cos-11d wired for  Sennheiser:

 

black wire -> tip tab

White wire -> ring tab

silver shield -> soldered to the sleeve and ring tab

 

 

So to change this to Sony (according to the cos-11 wiring diagram), white and black wires are switched but also the shield should be disconnected from the ring tab as well, right? Or is that not really important?

 

for Sony:

Black -> ring

White -> tip

Shield -> Sleeve

001BD85B-D73D-4FD0-989F-E4EF1522C388.jpeg

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  • 2 months later...

Sorry to revive an old thread.

I'm trying to make 2 adapters. 

 

The mics I have are both Headset Mics:

 

Sennheiser ME 3-EW Headset Mic (older version of the ME 3-II) for G3.

 

Sony ECM-322BMP Headworn Mic for UWP-D.

 

I feel like I'm on the right track but just want to confirm before I do some more soldering (made some boo boos)... Is this correct?

 

 

9C14BDEE-3A3D-428B-895F-679B632243F0.jpeg

 

A633E429-88DB-4B23-B4DB-438E490406FF.jpeg

 

Thanks!

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On 8/16/2018 at 11:59 PM, RevelRob said:

Sorry to revive an old thread.

I'm trying to make 2 adapters. 

 

The mics I have are both Headset Mics:

 

Sennheiser ME 3-EW Headset Mic (older version of the ME 3-II) for G3.

 

Sony ECM-322BMP Headworn Mic for UWP-D.

 

I feel like I'm on the right track but just want to confirm before I do some more soldering (made some boo boos)... Is this correct?

 

 

9C14BDEE-3A3D-428B-895F-679B632243F0.jpeg

 

A633E429-88DB-4B23-B4DB-438E490406FF.jpeg

 

Thanks!

 

For anyone who is wondering, the above diagrams are incorrect if wanting to make ADAPTERS. 

After tons of trial and error and some amazing help by @Eric Toline and @Dalton Patterson, I ended up successfully making 1 adapter that will work both ways (G3 mic to UWP TX and UWP mic to G3 TX). 

If you want to make an adapter, you just need to wire Tip to Ring and Ring to Tip. Leave the Sleeve on both ends floating.

Since the Sleeve is the part of both connectors that provide the most stability when soldered, be sure to use a good amount of heat shrink. 

 

Here's my adapter:

47BD9D74-172C-4091-9FAD-45C9867B0669.jpeg

 

I'll probably make another that's a bit longer and use a bongo tie to reduce stress on it since it is a bit top heavy. 

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On 8/20/2018 at 12:07 PM, Eric Toline said:

Congratulations on a job well done. I'm going to copy your diagram for my wiring cheat sheet.

Thanks for your help Eric!

Regarding the diagrams, they are both INCORRECT if wanting to make an ADAPTER.

 

Here is the correct wiring for an adapter:

G3 to UWP Adapter.png

 

It will work both ways but since the Shield is carrying the load of 2 wires (shield and ring wire of the G3), it may not be advisable to use it the opposite way.

If you want to make one to adapt a Sony mic to a Sennheiser TX, I'd suggest just doing the wiring like above but put the shield where the red wire would go and the red wire where the shield would go.

 

All that said... I may have no idea what I'm talking about.

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I'm not sure if the labels on the 3.5mm TRS are for the wires or the solder points. If it's the solder points then they are reversed as the solder tab on the left marked as RING is the TIP solder point on that connector, same goes for the right side tab which is indicated as TIP but is connected to the ring on that connector. After further consideration and study I believe the Ring & Tip indicators show which wire goes where.

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18 minutes ago, Eric Toline said:

I'm not sure if the labels on the 3.5mm TRS are for the wires or the solder points. If it's the solder points then they are reversed as the solder tab on the left marked as RING is the TIP solder point on that connector, same goes for the right side tab which is indicated as TIP but is connected to the ring on that connector. After further consideration and study I believe the Ring & Tip indicators show which wire goes where.

 

Yeah sorry, I shouldn't have colour coded the connectors. Just confuses things.

Also, on my 3.5mm Female, the long tab has a "T" on it and a multimeter test confirms it's for the tip. It may just be how Switchcraft does it.

Just found the datasheet actually:

https://www.digchip.com/datasheets/parts/datasheet/000/35LJN-pdf.php

Screen Shot 2018-08-21 at 8.01.38 PM.png

Also, on the Male adapter I'm using, the Tip is the one that the Tip arrow is pointing to. Us Canadians have it all reversed!

 

That said, to simplify...

Female Tip to Male Ring with either Red or White wire (diagram shows Red).

Female Ring to Male Tip with Shield.

Female Shield and Male Shield disconnected (diagram shows White wires floating on both ends).

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  • 3 months later...

I know this is an old thread, but I don't think the info already presented is correct.  Here is what I gathered after a lot of reading, but someone who owns these mic packs will need to test:

 

Sennheiser Evolution Wireless Transmitters

These have a 2-wire mic configuration for common source mode: power through a resistor to the tip; signal on the tip; ground on the sleeve.  The ring is a line-level input, which should be muted when not in use by shorting it to ground.

 

Sennheiser EW Mics

These are 2-wire devices for common source mode, with the drain on the tip and the source and case/ground on the sleeve.  The plug should also short its ring to the sleeve.

 

Sony UWP Transmitters

These are meant for source follower mode, with signal on the tip, power on the ring (NOT through a resistor), and ground on the sleeve.  The Sony service manual for the UTX-B2 shows the power line as 5 V with no resistor, and a load resistor from signal to ground of 10 kilo ohm.

 

Sony UWP Mics

Mics wired for Sony UWP transmitters expose their drain, source, and case/ground on separate contacts (ring, tip, and sleeve, respectively), so they're fully compatible with source follower mode and common source mode, just by changing the connector wiring.

 

Adapting a Sennheiser EW Mic to a Sony UWP Transmitter

Some mics wired for Sennheiser might actually be 3-wire devices.  So it's worth disassembling the plug to check.  If it's 3-wire, you'll find the source wire and shield both connected to the sleeve (and ring), and the drain wire connected to the tip, and then you could just switch the wires around to make the mic work with the Sony UWP transmitter in source follower mode (shield to sleeve, source wire to tip, drain wire to ring).

But with only 2 wires, you can still build an adapter. 

A proper adapter would put the microphone in common source mode by having a resistor between the transmitter's ring and the mic's tip. 6.8 kilo ohm is the value suggested by Countryman for their B6 mic and Sony UWP transmitters, and I imagine that value will work with most 2-wire mics as it's a typical value for common source mode inputs with 5 V power.  You do need that resistor, because it becomes the load resistor and the varying voltage across it is the signal output of the microphone.  Then also connect the transmitter's tip to the mic's tip, and the transmitter's sleeve to the mic's sleeve.

An improper adapter would connect the transmitter's ring (power supply) to the mic's tip (drain) and the transmitter's tip (signal) to the mic's sleeve (or ring, which is the source).  The transmitter's sleeve (ground) would not be connected to anything.  This puts the mic in source follower mode and you will get sound. But it's not a good configuration mainly because the signal is carried on the shield, which means it's effectively not shielded at all, and vulnerable to RF interference.  Also the output signal (source) is fed back to one side of the microphone element, though I'm not sure if that would have any effect.  If you had a 3-conductor cable (2 wires plus shield) from the mic plug to the mic capsule, you could have ground on the shield and still get a 2-wire capsule to work in source follower mode with a 3-wire input.  That's certainly better than putting the signal on the shield, but the capsule's case would still be connected to the signal line, potentially allowing RF interference to enter through the capsule.

 

Adapting a Sony UWP Mic to a Sennheiser EW Transmitter

Wire the transmitter's tip to the mic's ring, and the transmitter's sleeve to the mic's tip and sleeve.  You also need a wire from the transmitter's ring to the transmitter's sleeve, to mute the line input.

 

Changing a mic between source follower mode and common source mode changes its performance characteristics.  In common source mode, a mic will be more sensitive (by 9-10 dB), less linear, and have a lower SPL before severe distortion sets in.

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I have been trying, unsuccessfully,  to find some adapters from a 3 pin Lemo to the Sony UWP transmitter. I have two dual channel Sony's that I use for a hop and wanted to be able to adapt my current mic inventory to these as a backup. Betso sells an adapter that goes from Lemo to Sennheiser 3.5mm inputs. I contacted Betso and they said they could provide some adapted to the Sony wiring scheme for 25% more if ordered thru their website after the first of the year. 

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  • 3 weeks later...
On 11/24/2018 at 6:06 AM, balazer said:

I know this is an old thread, but I don't think the info already presented is correct.  Here is what I gathered after a lot of reading, but someone who owns these mic packs will need to test:

 

Sennheiser Evolution Wireless Transmitters

These have a 2-wire mic configuration for common source mode: power through a resistor to the tip; signal on the tip; ground on the sleeve.  The ring is a line-level input, which should be muted when not in use by shorting it to ground.

 

Sennheiser EW Mics

These are 2-wire devices for common source mode, with the drain on the tip and the source and case/ground on the sleeve.  The plug should also short its ring to the sleeve.

 

Sony UWP Transmitters

These are meant for source follower mode, with signal on the tip, power on the ring (NOT through a resistor), and ground on the sleeve.  The Sony service manual for the UTX-B2 shows the power line as 5 V with no resistor, and a load resistor from signal to ground of 10 kilo ohm.

 

Sony UWP Mics

Mics wired for Sony UWP transmitters expose their drain, source, and case/ground on separate contacts (ring, tip, and sleeve, respectively), so they're fully compatible with source follower mode and common source mode, just by changing the connector wiring.

 

Adapting a Sennheiser EW Mic to a Sony UWP Transmitter

Some mics wired for Sennheiser might actually be 3-wire devices.  So it's worth disassembling the plug to check.  If it's 3-wire, you'll find the source wire and shield both connected to the sleeve (and ring), and the drain wire connected to the tip, and then you could just switch the wires around to make the mic work with the Sony UWP transmitter in source follower mode (shield to sleeve, source wire to tip, drain wire to ring).

But with only 2 wires, you can still build an adapter. 

A proper adapter would put the microphone in common source mode by having a resistor between the transmitter's ring and the mic's tip. 6.8 kilo ohm is the value suggested by Countryman for their B6 mic and Sony UWP transmitters, and I imagine that value will work with most 2-wire mics as it's a typical value for common source mode inputs with 5 V power.  You do need that resistor, because it becomes the load resistor and the varying voltage across it is the signal output of the microphone.  Then also connect the transmitter's tip to the mic's tip, and the transmitter's sleeve to the mic's sleeve.

An improper adapter would connect the transmitter's ring (power supply) to the mic's tip (drain) and the transmitter's tip (signal) to the mic's sleeve (or ring, which is the source).  The transmitter's sleeve (ground) would not be connected to anything.  This puts the mic in source follower mode and you will get sound. But it's not a good configuration mainly because the signal is carried on the shield, which means it's effectively not shielded at all, and vulnerable to RF interference.  Also the output signal (source) is fed back to one side of the microphone element, though I'm not sure if that would have any effect.  If you had a 3-conductor cable (2 wires plus shield) from the mic plug to the mic capsule, you could have ground on the shield and still get a 2-wire capsule to work in source follower mode with a 3-wire input.  That's certainly better than putting the signal on the shield, but the capsule's case would still be connected to the signal line, potentially allowing RF interference to enter through the capsule.

 

Adapting a Sony UWP Mic to a Sennheiser EW Transmitter

Wire the transmitter's tip to the mic's ring, and the transmitter's sleeve to the mic's tip and sleeve.  You also need a wire from the transmitter's ring to the transmitter's sleeve, to mute the line input.

 

Changing a mic between source follower mode and common source mode changes its performance characteristics.  In common source mode, a mic will be more sensitive (by 9-10 dB), less linear, and have a lower SPL before severe distortion sets in.

 

Although most of what you wrote completely goes over my head, I am inclined to think that you are correct.

 

On 11/24/2018 at 6:06 AM, balazer said:

An improper adapter would connect the transmitter's ring (power supply) to the mic's tip (drain) and the transmitter's tip (signal) to the mic's sleeve (or ring, which is the source).  The transmitter's sleeve (ground) would not be connected to anything.

This is exactly what I did. 

I have been using the adapter I made (pictured a few posts above) since I made it, and have luckily had nothing but success.

I know that it's not proper (hence, the "Dirty" label), and that there's potential for RF interference. You have just confirmed that. Thanks!

 

That said, I have only used it to adapt a Sennheiser Headset Microphone to a Sony UWP Transmitter for LIVE performance; so if there were any issues, they were negligible. 

 

Unfortunately, I either can't disassemble the Sennheiser plug or don't know how to. It doesn't come apart like the adapter parts I have do. I assume that since I just reversed the tip and ring and left the shield floating, that my mic is a 2-wire mic? Also, according to this: https://sennheiseruk.happyfox.com/kb/article/104-ew-plug-pin-configuration/ it mentions only 2 wires of the ME3. Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

I would love to make a proper adapter according to what you wrote; however, I am a bit confused by a couple of things and wanted to ask if what I am proposing is correct before I attempt to make another adapter:

 

First off, I am primarily wanting to make a Sennheiser ME-3 Mic to Sony UWP Transmitter adapter. Not really worried about a Sony Mic to G3 TX adapter (but may eventually make one).

 

I am much more of a visual person, so I adjusted the diagram to what I think may be correct. I really appreciate your help!

 

G3 to UWP Adapter V2.png

 

Also, where you you suggest I physically put the resistor?

 

Thanks again!

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  • 2 months later...
On 6/11/2018 at 4:16 PM, Eric Toline said:

No that's not correct. The shield/ground and the white wire get tied together at the ground connection and the black wire goes to the tip for Sennheiser or the ring for Sony. The ring on the Sennheiser is for a line level input.

 

Thank you very much, thanks for the help and the spirit of sharing knowledge, I hope to contribute something as well.
Hugs

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  • 2 years later...

Just my tuppenceworth.....but FYI ..I got OST TL40's for my Sony UTX-B40's and they were wired signal to sleeve, screen to tip (!)  ..they hummed like hell.  Dave at OST insisted that the wiring was correct...but it just didn't work.   Eventually , the supplier of the wireless kit asked the Sony rep who supplied the wiring diagram for another two wire lav, a DPA....this suggested .signal to tip, screen to sleeve, 3k3 resistor between ring and tip.  I tried it and it works just fine. 

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