geordi Posted August 10, 2012 Report Share Posted August 10, 2012 Here is a reply email I got, which I didn't really have to remove any details from because it didn't HAVE any details in it. The bold lines are the only changes I made. On 8/10/12 12:53 PM, The Producers wrote: (Yes, that really was the email name they used) Hi Jim, Thank you for submitting to our feature film being shot in October. I apologize for the delay in contacting you, we have been very busy! I took a look over your sound package and everything looks good. I do have a few questions for you.... Are you comfortable working as a one-man sound department, with the help of a boom operator when needed? The majority of the shoot takes place outdoors and scenes with many characters with a few lines, would you be comfortable working in this atmosphere at a fast pace? We maintain a faith-based atmosphere at all times, which is very important to us. We want to make sure all crew and cast are aware of this! Housing (will be rustic, filming at a camp location), Meals, and day rate of $100/day is provided. Please let me know if there are any questions I can answer for you. I look forward to hearing from you! --A Girl's First Name Only-- And this was my reply to her: Hello --Name--, Thank you for getting back to me, I have several questions in reply to your message. While I work as a one-man sound department on a lot of short-form projects, documentaries, and TV shows, the needs of a feature are typically much larger and more involved. I have to assume that offering a boom operator only "as needed" means that this person will most likely have other duties for much of the production, which will hurt efficiency on set, and because of a lack of specialization to the sound department, it could also compromise the sound quality as well. Will the DP be operating the camera solely by himself, or will the camera department have the typical feature film crew of a 3-4 person team per camera? The boom operator needs to be as skilled in the sound department as a 1st AC is for the camera - Their skills far exceed what many people assume is the only job: Being an ambulatory microphone stand. Will there be any provision for a full-time second member of the sound department, who can properly assist me with these multiple-people-with-lines outdoor shots? I have no problem with a faith-based atmosphere. You did not specify which faith, but that is unimportant at this time. I maintain my own religious beliefs between myself, my pastor, and God, and I respect everyone's rights to do likewise. In addition, I maintain a strong belief that EVERY scene can have immaculately-conceived sound recordings, and that "fixing it in post" is something borne by evil thoughts. Your rate offering is fine, however you did not mention any provision for the rental of my $50,000 of recorders, wireless, support technology, and problem solvers that will be needed for this project. Under the current budget scale, my gear and expendables budget needs will be $800 per day for this project. I suspect that the camera department's equipment needs will be along a similar rate structure. Good lenses alone can easily be 3-4 times the cost of a camera body. Thank you again for replying, and I look forward to hearing more about this project! --Jim So... What do you think? Obviously, by offering $100/day with the assumption (probably accurate) that this would be all-in, they don't have a CLUE how much it actually costs to make a feature, or are desperately hoping that I don't know. I'm sure that I won't ever hear from them again, but maybe this will help educate them a little bit. I know it felt good to write all that out, even if I had to restrain myself from shouting WTF is wrong with you people at them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RPSharman Posted August 10, 2012 Report Share Posted August 10, 2012 That's crazy! I hope their faith is strong, because they'll need a miracle to get good sound for $100/day. Robert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RScottATL Posted August 10, 2012 Report Share Posted August 10, 2012 In addition, I maintain a strong belief that EVERY scene can have immaculately-conceived sound recordings, and that "fixing it in post" is something borne by evil thoughts. ^.^ Your self restraint is very good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Blankenship Posted August 10, 2012 Report Share Posted August 10, 2012 Jim, I think your self-restraint speaks well of you as a professional. It amazes me how many people consider themselves to be professional but their responses to such inquiries show otherwise. After all, it is YOUR values you're reflecting in the response, not theirs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OmahaAudio Posted August 10, 2012 Report Share Posted August 10, 2012 Perhaps by "Faith Based" they mean that they're really big fans of Tim McGraw's wife. I'd prefer "Cash Based" myself, and not Johnny. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Miramontes Posted August 10, 2012 Report Share Posted August 10, 2012 How did you hear about this job btw? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geordi Posted August 10, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 10, 2012 I'm not certain, I follow a fair amount of online places, but I think this might have been through an email list. The postings on that list tend toward the vague side. Usually there is more information when they actually respond to you. Ok - I just went digging through my "sent items" bin... I sent out the "hello my name is" email on June 23rd. Wow, they must REALLY be behind schedule, or digging through a long list of people that won't work for those peanuts. Based on the speed of their reply to my original message... I might hear back from them about today's reply sometime around Halloween. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip Perkins Posted August 10, 2012 Report Share Posted August 10, 2012 I understand the frustration behind your answer to the "producers" email, but what, ultimately, is the point? They'll find someone to do their movie, it won't be you, and the sound will probably mostly suck unless they are very lucky. Then some postie will do the best they can and the film will have some friends and family screenings, be rejected from several film festivals, and die a quiet death. Just tell them that you can't or don't want to work for that money because you have obligations to meet etc etc and wish them luck. phil p Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Ragon Posted August 11, 2012 Report Share Posted August 11, 2012 Your answer was perfect. Especial the part about the 50K in gear. Our market is now just insanely flooded with people who just 'don't know' what our biz cost. So, they see others on CL or Mandy posting 100/day sound gigs, so they think thats just the going rates. I have no problems at all, loosing a gig because I'm too expensive. It's a easy way to vet the clients. -Richard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Wielage Posted August 11, 2012 Report Share Posted August 11, 2012 I can recall a similar "faith-based" production out of Kansas a few years back, and my comment (not made to the producer) was, I'd rather work for a Satanic cult that paid my normal day rate in cash than for an ultra-religious show that paid me $100 a day. And I'm quick to remind the producers that a good boom op will save money, simply because they'll reduce any sound delays by at least half. Heck, if they avoid even a half-hour of wasted time a day, they've saved even a small shoot many hundreds of dollars. BTW, that was an excellent reply, Jim! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikewest Posted August 11, 2012 Report Share Posted August 11, 2012 Are the producers being paid $100 per day?? mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Ragon Posted August 11, 2012 Report Share Posted August 11, 2012 I cant stand it when a producer tells me that "the DP is not charging for their camera gear".. I finaly figured out the 'perfect' reply.. "Awesome.. that means there should plenty of extra money in the budget to pay for a decent sound man and kit package." -Richard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RPSharman Posted August 11, 2012 Report Share Posted August 11, 2012 I cant stand it when a producer tells me that "the DP is not charging for their camera gear".. I finaly figured out the 'perfect' reply.. "Awesome.. that means there should plenty of extra money in the budget to pay for a decent sound man and kit package." -Richard If they're getting all the camera gear for free, it's prosumer level at best, or DSLR with stock lenses. If that's the case, then a boom and a Zoom is comparable. So fair enough. But I'd guess most are offering a free RED to get the DP job, and then the production ends up having to rent lenses and drives and batteries, etc., not realizing all they got for free was the body. What people don't seem to realize is that although there are many new ways to capture a nice image inexpensively, capturing the words - the story, has not changed. It still requires skill and expertise and equipment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Smith Posted August 11, 2012 Report Share Posted August 11, 2012 Best response I've heard to this line yet.... --S I cant stand it when a producer tells me that "the DP is not charging for their camera gear".. I finaly figured out the 'perfect' reply.. "Awesome.. that means there should plenty of extra money in the budget to pay for a decent sound man and kit package." -Richard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Feeley Posted August 11, 2012 Report Share Posted August 11, 2012 Great response, Richard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Ragon Posted August 11, 2012 Report Share Posted August 11, 2012 If they're getting all the camera gear for free, it's prosumer level at best, or DSLR with stock lenses. If that's the case, then a boom and a Zoom is comparable. So fair enough. What people don't seem to realize is that although there are many new ways to capture a nice image inexpensively, capturing the words - the story, has not changed. It still requires skill and expertise and equipment. Ive actually seen entire high-end packages given away from the DP.. Not to mention Panavision also granting entire film packages to indie crews too. Hence the reason, I was 'dumb struck' when I hear that.. And Robert, we all know that if you simply just buy all the right gear, then all you need to do is get people to push the right buttons... right? -Richard (p.s. a number of years back, I worked as an assistant editor, and the manager actually went around the shop saying that all he needed was to hire was the people, just to push the right buttons.. ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glen Trew Posted August 11, 2012 Report Share Posted August 11, 2012 Don't walk away. Run. gt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay Rose Posted August 11, 2012 Report Share Posted August 11, 2012 Like many, I admire your response. I wouldn't change anything. I have seen "faith based" as a code word for "all of us are working for the Glory of (insert name of particular) God, and we expect this to be mostly a contribution". Actors get it, we get it in post as well, and I've seen it on equipment donations wanted for various ministries. They'll probably find someone who'll work for their rate... and if they're really lucky (sorry, if they're really Blessed) they might even find semi-retired or otherwise time-on-hands professionals for each department who'll actually do a good job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henchman Posted August 12, 2012 Report Share Posted August 12, 2012 Tell them to bill the pope. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Wielage Posted August 13, 2012 Report Share Posted August 13, 2012 I have seen "faith based" as a code word for "all of us are working for the Glory of (insert name of particular) God, and we expect this to be mostly a contribution". I would say, "my particular God requires that I get a reasonable day rate, equipment rental, insurance, OT after 12, meal after 6, and 12-on/12-off." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fieldmixer Posted August 13, 2012 Report Share Posted August 13, 2012 OT after 12?? What happened to OT after 10? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geordi Posted August 13, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 13, 2012 F-that... OT after 8. I get OT 8+, DT 12+ and a 10 hour turnaround on stagehand gigs, and that is LOTS easier than being a one-man-band sound mixer for 8 hours straight on a reality tv gig. Now... Will anyone actually DO that OT after 8? None have yet, sadly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikewest Posted August 13, 2012 Report Share Posted August 13, 2012 God built the world in 7 days so he must have been a producer demanding 7 straight days. God was an Indie producer and therefore did not use IA crew! Hold on- the guys at Panavision are on a payroll and get paid even if they give stuff away!!! We all run a fragile one man band and only get paid if we work and then invoice! Is that the truth bros!!! mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Babb Posted August 13, 2012 Report Share Posted August 13, 2012 God built the world in 7 days so he must have been a producer demanding 7 straight days. 6 days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olle Sjostrom Posted August 13, 2012 Report Share Posted August 13, 2012 With a day off, mind you. Otherwise he would've gone on strike I reckon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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