pvanstry Posted September 8, 2012 Report Share Posted September 8, 2012 Just trying to grasp the difference here: - 664 no internal drive - 664 no linear fader interface - 664 as 6 inputs - price Anything else? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sound Grab Posted September 8, 2012 Report Share Posted September 8, 2012 no cl-wifi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Hirtenstein Posted September 8, 2012 Report Share Posted September 8, 2012 - 664 as 6 inputs well with the cl-6 it has 12 inputs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boomboom Posted September 8, 2012 Report Share Posted September 8, 2012 - pan faders instead of l-c-r - sample rates different (48K/24bit max for 664) - read somewhere they went back to ''à la 744'' limiters circuitry - 664 has a dedicated communication circuit (you need the CL-9 to get something similar, if memory's good, with the 788) (well, you can use the input#8 and switch it to slate mic use; maybe it's the same with the 664's TA3 slate/mic input but without the need to assign it in the menus ? manual will tell...) I'll sure keep my 788/CL-8 for now; about the same weight and I like the size of it. For people who want a little more than what the 552 has to offer, it's right on imo. Thinking about a friend who recently recorded a first feature with restrained budget, it would have fitted very well for his needs. His 552 couldn't give him isos and I guess he used a rented 744 (didn't get news from him since some time)... But would I buy a 332 in a snap right now ! Even more if it had 2 returns that work like the MixPre-D returns to be able to add 2 more wirelesses if need be. Well, I digress ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RPSharman Posted September 8, 2012 Report Share Posted September 8, 2012 I think it's an alternate of the 788T not a replacement. I'm buying one to bridge the gap of my 302/744T and 788T/CL8 I was going to buy another 788, but not now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RadoStefanov Posted September 8, 2012 Report Share Posted September 8, 2012 I like the old 744t analog limiters better then the 552 or 788t.. 664 having them is a great news... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Palmer Posted September 8, 2012 Report Share Posted September 8, 2012 I think it's an alternate of the 788T not a replacement. I'm buying one to bridge the gap of my 302/744T and 788T/CL8 I was going to buy another 788, but not now. I think you're spot on. I'm considering switching to the 664 for my bag, which is now a behemoth Deva 5.8 and 6 411's. My bag rig is hardly a bag rig in the sense of mobility. It's more of a mini cart... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boomboom Posted September 8, 2012 Report Share Posted September 8, 2012 Spot on for sure; it's been nicely said the 664 is a mixer that can record, while the 788 is a recorder you can use to mix with inclusion of the CL-8. It's really down to that when you look at it. Phil ; you must be one of the few living ''organic carts'' around ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted September 8, 2012 Report Share Posted September 8, 2012 " Just trying to grasp the difference here: " should be easy for an experienced designer and consultant... one is a recorder... one is a mixer that records. there are lots of differences, and yes, for many this fills the middle of the SD line with a more powerful product than the 552. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olix Posted September 8, 2012 Report Share Posted September 8, 2012 44.1 kHz, 48 kHz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pvanstry Posted September 8, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 8, 2012 Senator not worth responding. I understand the mixer that records or te recorder that can mix but I think the line are now less then clear here on that. We are bridging those two categories or at least making them almost identical. I am also curious the impact the 664 will have on the fiction market here in Québec, since it is such a small market. I am afraid that we will yet shoot our selves in the foot with supplying more for less. I have been advocating for an all in one package in the past ( less inventory, less wasted time repacking etc... ) but the rental structure needs to reflect what is actually used. Using a 788 for a simple sitdown/feed the camera interciew should be charged like a 302 but a reality show for which you use 5-7 wireless and deliver Isos track and the end of day is not. Unfortunatly a lot of people eat the cost of the recorder and legitimate it by saying it enables them to rent more wireless. Both should be charged for since they are needed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OmahaAudio Posted September 8, 2012 Report Share Posted September 8, 2012 " Just trying to grasp the difference here: " should be easy for an experienced designer and consultant... Instead of offering disparaging remarks why not try and offer something helpful? It always seems a shame that someone with your professed knowledge and experience seems to do little more than present useless little snippets of non-information. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OmahaAudio Posted September 8, 2012 Report Share Posted September 8, 2012 I understand the mixer that records or the recorder that can mix but I think the line are now less then clear here on that. We are bridging those two categories or at least making them almost identical. I would say that the 664 is a game changer, more so than the Nomad or the Maxx. I think we can assume (from past SD experience) that the 664 will be fully realized upon release (unlike the Nomad) and will be rock-solid in its performance. I don't even feel that the 48K limit is very much of an issue because, in reality (not reality shows), how often are you asked to record at 96K or higher? If you have many $$$ invested in non-Zaxcom wireless gear and don't feel like changing then the lack of a ZaxNet-like system isn't even relevant. There is also a certain "finish" to SD gear that I think the Zaxcom gear lacks, sort of similar to the difference between, say, a Ford Mustang and a BMW, similar in specs and results but different in "feel". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip Perkins Posted September 8, 2012 Report Share Posted September 8, 2012 Let's see how thing s go for the early users...esp those that have used the alternatives... phil p Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PTA Posted September 8, 2012 Report Share Posted September 8, 2012 Let's see how thing s go for the early users...esp those that have used the alternatives... phil p I will most likely be an early user, and I'm sure it will have bugs like all products. 552 had bugs too. I also think the menu driven system of the 664 will be far superior to the 788, but that's just my hunch. I always felt that the menu system on the 788 and the LED metering took up too much real estate. I'm glad they have been combined into one. I know others liked the old LEDs though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glenn Posted September 9, 2012 Report Share Posted September 9, 2012 I would say that the 664 is a game changer, more so than the Nomad or the Maxx. I think we can assume (from past SD experience) that the 664 will be fully realized upon release (unlike the Nomad) and will be rock-solid in its performance. I don't even feel that the 48K limit is very much of an issue because, in reality (not reality shows), how often are you asked to record at 96K or higher? If you have many $$$ invested in non-Zaxcom wireless gear and don't feel like changing then the lack of a ZaxNet-like system isn't even relevant. There is also a certain "finish" to SD gear that I think the Zaxcom gear lacks, sort of similar to the difference between, say, a Ford Mustang and a BMW, similar in specs and results but different in "feel". It is a shame that now as in the past you take any opperunity to comment on Zaxcom gear in an uninformed negative way . It is very ironic that when the 664 comes out if "fully realized" it will have far less mixing, audio processing and overall features than the Nomad that is available today. As for the Maxx it is a different class of product. Considering that it has input delay, 2 notch filters per channel, Routable faders for surround microphones, visual time code slate, 100% digital mixing, user adjustable soft knee compressors, Neverclip, 137dB input dynamic range and runs at 192Khz your view of the 664 as a game changer and your prediction of a perfect product launch needs to viewed from the rear window not the front. As for the relivence of Zaxnet I hope that some of the users of the Zaxnet system can give you a good idea of what you are missing out on. Glenn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wyatt Tuzo Posted September 9, 2012 Report Share Posted September 9, 2012 A: I'm tired of hearing the term "game changer" thrown around. Nothing is "changing the game", it's all just product evolution. B: Glenn, realize it or not, you're being Mr. Defensive again. As one who uses a Deva nearly every day, don't take this as a general attack on your product line. I DO think people have every right to criticize Zax for releasing equipment prematurely. Also, as far as I'm concerned, unless I can never actually clip, "Neverclip" is nothing more than marketing jargon, and smells a bit of snake oil. I've said this before... but if you believe in your products, let them stand for themselves. To quote Salieri in Amadeus: "A little modesty might suit you better" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Wexler Posted September 9, 2012 Report Share Posted September 9, 2012 My bag rig is hardly a bag rig in the sense of mobility. It's more of a mini cart... Except no wheels --- YOU are the method of mobility Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OmahaAudio Posted September 9, 2012 Report Share Posted September 9, 2012 It is a shame that now as in the past you take any opperunity to comment on Zaxcom gear in an uninformed negative way. Glenn, that's nonsense and you know it, or should know it. It is very ironic that when the 664 comes out if "fully realized" it will have far less mixing, audio processing and overall features than the Nomad that is available today. By fully realized I, of course, meant they I believe that the things that SD say the 664 will be able to do will, in fact, be there and usable. It seems to me that many of the hundreds of postings here on JWSound about the Nomad revolve around the many things that were originally promised but not available upon original release but only available with subsequent software updates, some of which have taken months. As a side note, you seem to maintain a very, shall I say, aggressive tone when someone dares offer any opinion that is in the slightest way negative about your products or indeed posts valid questions about your company's products or policies. That's not really the way someone offering a product in today's market should act, in my opinion. It might behove you to calm the **** down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Wexler Posted September 9, 2012 Report Share Posted September 9, 2012 I would say that the 664 is a game changer, more so than the Nomad or the Maxx. I think the term "game changer" has been miserably mis-used so many times in relation to so many products. In my view (and I have been "viewing" this landscape for a very long time), there have been very few true "game changers" that fit my definition of the "game" we are changing. Some of the few items I can think of: the original Nagra, absolutely a game changer --- a recorder that allowed extremely high quality sync sound recording for motion pictures that ran on batteries and could be carried "over the shoulder". The first practical DAT machine that provided a portable means to record digital audio in the field. Once DAT was established, would any one company's new model be called a "game changer"? I don't think so. Now, on to the really significant product worthy in all ways to be celebrated as a game changer: the first Zaxcom Deva. When other manufacturers finally came out with their file based recorders, should any of them be considered a "game" changer? Again, I don't think so. I would add to this short list of candidates, Zaxcom's pure digital wireless system. For the very first time we were able to have pristine full bandwidth digital audio transmited digitally, encrypted and without any companding, analog artifacts, wider dynamic range without the use of limiters, all in a highly portable, functional and affordable package specifically designed for our use. I don't think the term "game changer" should be used to describe a potential shift in the devices we use to do our job --- when the SD 664 comes out and there are those who decide to purchase that item instead of a Nomad, or a Cantar, or a used 442 with a 744 strapped to it, that does not make the SD 664 a game changer but rather just a choice (and choice is good). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RScottATL Posted September 9, 2012 Report Share Posted September 9, 2012 The 788T offers recorder master/slave ganging for higher track counts, though with up to 12 inputs on the 664, it may be a little bit before you would need to jump up to such a robust recording solution. At that point, there are many other solutions as well. 788T offers per channel input delay and output delay. I've used this before when mix-n-matching 411's and 211's and use it for my boom. I could certainly live without it, though I do enjoy the option. I believe output delay is used to match IFB with a monitor feed that may have delay. 664 brings the menu selection & headphones knobs to the front of the bag!!!!! How many of us go just a little bit nuts every time we have to reach around the sides of a bag to try to manipulate the 788T menu/headphones knobs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MT Groove Posted September 9, 2012 Report Share Posted September 9, 2012 B: Glenn, realize it or not, you're being Mr. Defensive again. As one who uses a Deva nearly every day, don't take this as a general attack on your product line. I DO think people have every right to criticize Zax for releasing equipment prematurely. Also, as far as I'm concerned, unless I can never actually clip, "Neverclip" is nothing more than marketing jargon, and smells a bit of snake oil. I've said this before... but if you believe in your products, let them stand for themselves. To quote Salieri in Amadeus: "A little modesty might suit you better" +1 from another Zax User here. We paid a premium for Zax gear and do have the right to criticise the products on an Open Discussion Group. As an owner of both Zax and SD products I can honestly say Zax needs some serious improvement in their build quality and quality control. Anyway, back to 788T Vs 664..... I think the 788T has some advanced features that can be left out on a bag rig. I think the 664 fills in nicely with the right blend of features. It definitely is NOT a game changer IMO but it seem nicely priced for the taget market. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted September 10, 2012 Report Share Posted September 10, 2012 updated Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted September 10, 2012 Report Share Posted September 10, 2012 " Using a 788 for a simple sitdown/feed the camera interciew should be charged like a 302 but a reality show for which you use 5-7 wireless and deliver Isos track and the end of day is not. Unfortunatly a lot of people eat the cost of the recorder and legitimate it by saying it enables them to rent more wireless. Both should be charged for since they are needed. " OK, now you are talking like a "Concepteur et consultant" this is a complex situation with a lot of possibilities, but it somewhat compare to another sometimes argues topic here: should enhanced capabilities of additional firmware require paying more for the higher end models..?? " I'm tired of hearing the term "game changer" thrown around. " me too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freeheel Posted September 13, 2012 Report Share Posted September 13, 2012 <" I'm tired of hearing the term "game changer" thrown around. " me too > Especially since the game never really changes, only the way we play it... Brent Calkin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.