MatthewFreedAudio Posted March 10, 2013 Report Share Posted March 10, 2013 Kellogg's spends $1.5 billion per year on advertising. I may be going out on a limb here but I have a hunch they can afford to rent a few 702's and a timecode slate. I watched the videos. There are better ways to capture and mix the sound so the end result is smoother. Production Sound Mixing for Television, Film, and Commercials. www.matthewfreed.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matias U Posted March 10, 2013 Report Share Posted March 10, 2013 Why do they need to shoot the 4 car interviews simultaneously? As for extreme run and gun, the example of the video you showed us is of sit down interviews and OTF's, I don't really see the run and gun in this. Maybe there's better examples of this run and gun you speak of. As for wanting to do all of what the production is asking you to do all by yourself is not very nice of them. I'm sure you want to be the guy who say's "I can do this and more!" and I'm sure that they're a nice group of people but this is work it's not personal. You've been given a lot of advice and have been warned from the previous posts from the members. And remember as a sound mixer you are setting the bar as Mike said earlier. But maybe you need to go through this as a learning experience,I know I have in the past. May the sound gods be with you on this one! PS: I feel like the Kellog's video is a tad bit out of sync especially in the car sequence and the trainer interview(audio before video). Could be the streaming or my crappy mac. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
engaudio Posted March 10, 2013 Report Share Posted March 10, 2013 Kellogg's spends $1.5 billion per year on advertising. I may be going out on a limb here but I have a hunch they can afford to rent a few 702's and a timecode slate Often it's a case of "here's your budget for corporate communications this year, don't ask as there is no more". Grant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RPSharman Posted March 10, 2013 Report Share Posted March 10, 2013 I'm going to have to agree with Simon B here... "How bad can it possibly be?" One person keeping track of all that stuff? Something will get missed, and no sound is pretty bad. You clearly feel you are inadequately prepared, or you wouldn't have asked for Internet help. Get another experienced person on your crew. Two heads are better than one. Insist upon it. Robert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Wielage Posted March 11, 2013 Report Share Posted March 11, 2013 Sorry if this was unclear. There is only one talent per car, four cars. And they have to drive at the same time? How will the audience know they're all driving simultaneously? I'm trying to fathom why shooting each car separately wouldn't be just as effective as shooting four cars simultaneously. Without seeing a script or storyboards, I'm flying blind here. "Hardly any post audio work being done"? Yikes... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azw Posted March 11, 2013 Report Share Posted March 11, 2013 Plant a lav under the visor in each car, wireless to a recorder in the backseat. Hit record and hope for the best. What else can be done here? Make sure you have fresh batteries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Wexler Posted March 11, 2013 Report Share Posted March 11, 2013 And they have to drive at the same time? How will the audience know they're all driving simultaneously? I'm trying to fathom why shooting each car separately wouldn't be just as effective as shooting four cars simultaneously. Without seeing a script or storyboards, I'm flying blind here. "Hardly any post audio work being done"? Yikes... I think you're not the only one flying blind on this one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daniel Posted March 11, 2013 Report Share Posted March 11, 2013 Ryan, I was invited to bid for a narrative job last year where i was told by a 'producer' there would be car scenes involving 8 cast, in 2 cars, shot simultaneously. After consulting with colleagues and based upon the brief described (which i was told was not adaptable) i put forward the solution i believed the situation required (similar to the some of the suggestions above). They declined the proposed solution, i declined the invitation, production went ahead, electing to shoot 1 car at time(!) because the director couldn't (sorry, didn't want to) direct 2 vehicles at the same time - production was ceased 30% through the project (for various reasons i understand). my take outs from this were: My life story (should i ever be bothered) really didn't this chapter after all. Some folk are so clueless (and greedy) that even when they realise they are clueless they don't know how clueless they actually are. For me, Mike is right when he refers to expectations and part of it is how to manage the expectations of an existing client. There's the proper way to do this part of the shoot (which guarantees a result) but costs more than they want to spend and there's various other options with various possible outcomes. It's fair for a client to determine how important an element of the show is to them and therefore how much they want to spend filming it. It's also fair (and professional) to advise them on what they can expect to achieve with the resources they decide to allocate. From what i've read so far the key thing is the audio is un-monitored (and in a tricky environment). With the apparent resources available i would suggest a camera mic, wireless mic and spot mic solution. The camera mics could be set up to go to 2 channels of the camera at 2 different levels, maybe 1 on agc. The wireless mics could be recorded on zooms/tascams and use an extra set of lectro receivers (so you do have to mess about with your bag set up). The spots mics could be lavs or cub-01s taped into place and also going to the zoom, so if the camera mics prove NG from operator noise etc and the wireless prove NG from seatbelt or drop-outs encountered en-route your editor (poor fella) still has some lip sync to cut in with the music :-). Incidentally, if they are travelling on there own (in each car) who are they talking to - crew/director/interviewer? good luck, dan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old school Posted March 11, 2013 Report Share Posted March 11, 2013 What does the Senator say about gigs like these? Something about unreasonable expectations? All of us, or most of us can do reasonable expectations, even unreasonable if we have the time and "They" have they $$$$. No magic in sound recording. Only craft. CrewC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Kittappa Posted March 11, 2013 Report Share Posted March 11, 2013 Let's just suppose you pull this off and the 'sound gods' pour out their blessings- and I hope you do because I imagine no-one here wants to see you fail. But if you do make this work it will mean that you have done more than your fair share of work and most likely paid less than your worth to have to made it happen. My concern is that in the future you'll never be afforded the resources to do this kind of thing properly. You will be called up to one man all kinds of crazy senarios without the budget to get the right gear. Not only that, the word will get out that this is normal and we'll all be expected to bust our guts doing the impossible. Once this producer starts talking to his other producer friends- I can just see it now- You, I and everyone else will be getting calls asking for the world and when we put together a plan involving 2+ sound mixers and the additional equipment that is really needed to do it right, they'll just turn around and say 'That last guy did it by himself on 1/3 of the budget so why can't you?' I really believe you owe it to yourself to make sure that whoever is hiring you for this project knows that what they are asking is, as the Senator says, an unrealistic expectation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted March 11, 2013 Report Share Posted March 11, 2013 " Plant a lav under the visor in each car, wireless to a recorder in the backseat. " Why ?? KISS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Wielage Posted March 12, 2013 Report Share Posted March 12, 2013 Some folk are so clueless (and greedy) that even when they realise they are clueless they don't know how clueless they actually are. For me, Mike is right when he refers to expectations and part of it is how to manage the expectations of an existing client. There's the proper way to do this part of the shoot (which guarantees a result) but costs more than they want to spend and there's various other options with various possible outcomes. It's fair for a client to determine how important an element of the show is to them and therefore how much they want to spend filming it. It's also fair (and professional) to advise them on what they can expect to achieve with the resources they decide to allocate. I find it's often not so much greed as it is being unprepared from a budget point of view, and simply biting off more than they can chew. ("Unrealistic expectations" is a shorter way of saying the same thing.) In my encounters with neophyte producers and directors who expect stuff like that, I'll shoot it down immediately, but in the same breath, come up with a solution that can work. If I said, "hey, just shoot one car at a time and that we can absolutely handle," I think they'd go for it -- especially if camera department backs that up. Otherwise, I agree: you gotta know when to hold 'em, and know when to fold 'em, and know when to walk away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daniel Posted March 12, 2013 Report Share Posted March 12, 2013 Fast (2+ cars in 1 go in this case), cheap, good. Sound op gives credible advice, Producer gets to pick 2. If they want the moon on a stick (all 3) then they're either not a producer (fantasist without the money) or greedy (they've raised the money but don't want to spend it). IMHO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Lewis Posted June 15, 2014 Report Share Posted June 15, 2014 Camera mics on cameras, one operator and multitrack per car, lavs on all cast (this is reality TV, they will change it up on you all the time and not having a wire on each cast member is asking for missed dialogue.) I wire people in cars with seat belts on all the time, the wires are hidden and placed where the seat belts can't be a problem. Reality TV usually requires a 788/664/nomad or whatever flavor recorder to be dropped in a vehicle all the time while the "operator" rides in a different vehicle. It is just the way it goes, but for the driving stuff you must at least have a recorder in each car rolling on the wires all the time. Your restaurant scenario is pretty simple. Mix your mix tracks as best you can, make sure your ISO's are solid. If production can't afford multiple recorders for the driving scenario, then less than ideal sound is what they will get. It is up to them to allow you to get a good product or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted June 15, 2014 Report Share Posted June 15, 2014 Rob, you do realize that you are responding to a 15 month old post..? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Lewis Posted June 15, 2014 Report Share Posted June 15, 2014 LOL! Nope Senator! Major brain fart! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyler Faison Posted June 29, 2014 Report Share Posted June 29, 2014 Well while we're on it, how did this shoot go Ryan (if you can remember)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
traut Posted July 5, 2014 Report Share Posted July 5, 2014 Sounds like you are walking into a storm o' shit. Don't ever be afraid to say NO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip Perkins Posted July 5, 2014 Report Share Posted July 5, 2014 Sounds like you are walking into a storm o' shit. Don't ever be afraid to say NO. words to live by p Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prahlad Strickland Posted July 7, 2014 Report Share Posted July 7, 2014 charge more, always charge more, I learnt this from JW forums, which gives me zaxcom, which gives me walking backup recorders, recording plant mic's, recordings camera links, all from following the jw mantra over the last few years... "charge more", the more we get, the more we buy, the more we buy, the better we are (not to say you all can't get great sound from less, you get my theory though). cheers to all on here :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fieldmixer Posted July 8, 2014 Report Share Posted July 8, 2014 Yes charge more and for the love of yourself never accept a flat/no overtime. its sabotage Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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