Zack Posted November 30, 2013 Report Share Posted November 30, 2013 Are you grabbing the IFB antenna to stop the whine? This is where I've found causing issues, UHF wise everything works properly as long as proper block separation is kept. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jobo Posted November 30, 2013 Report Share Posted November 30, 2013 Jack, I don't see that block separation disclaimer from Zax in any of the CL literature. Can you point me to it? Zack, No IFB antenna connected. No IFB enabled. I still get light spray with the CL on my shoulder, but it's better, if not super inconvenient. Anyone want to trade a pair of 25 411/SM systems for BLK 21 or 19 systems? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Norflus Posted November 30, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 30, 2013 The one bock separation is a SOP. Even if you had a Lectro TX vs having the CL - you would still want the separation. This is something that your dealer should have spoken to you about when ordering. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Blankenship Posted November 30, 2013 Report Share Posted November 30, 2013 A transmitting antenna in close proximity to a receiving antenna will desensitize it to some degree. The amount the receiving signal is affected depends upon how close the antennas are physically, the separation between their respective frequencies, and the transmitter's output power. Wireless 101, or maybe that's 201. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDirckze Posted November 30, 2013 Report Share Posted November 30, 2013 The one bock separation is a SOP. Even if you had a Lectro TX vs having the CL - you would still want the separation. This is something that your dealer should have spoken to you about when ordering. I'd have to disagree with this statement. I used to use Lectro UCR411a/24 for talent Rx in the bag with Zaxcom TRX900AA/STA150 in block 25. Horrible spray all over my B24 talent Rx. Now I use 2 x block 24 Lectro UM400a & SRb as my hop system, no spray at all over my B24 talent Rx and no other issues to speak of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zack Posted November 30, 2013 Report Share Posted November 30, 2013 I think Jack's point was only for the practice of keeping your blocks separated, which is true and makes sense. However, I do see what you're saying, and this is more to do with technical aspects within the different designs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDirckze Posted November 30, 2013 Report Share Posted November 30, 2013 Yes, I understand Jack's point regarding block separation between Talent Rx & link Tx, but in my experience you can get away with it using an all Lectro setup vs a Lectro/Zaxcom combo in the bag. However, I can't speak of the Zax CL, only of the TRX900AA/STA150 combo. Again, this has been my personal experience, and it may differ for others... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zack Posted November 30, 2013 Report Share Posted November 30, 2013 I shared that same experience with my trx/sta/filter, the CL has pretty much solved all that and more for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDirckze Posted November 30, 2013 Report Share Posted November 30, 2013 Might be time to try and sell my TRX system... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zack Posted November 30, 2013 Report Share Posted November 30, 2013 Might be time to try and sell my TRX system... Good luck with that.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r.paterson Posted November 30, 2013 Report Share Posted November 30, 2013 Hello a suggestion if talent block sitting close to cl block, is get a coaxial dipole ala lectrosonics with sma and put the cl UHF tx anntena on mixer harness, I have to say I am very impressed withe cl compared to the Trx/sta150 ..richard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDirckze Posted November 30, 2013 Report Share Posted November 30, 2013 Good luck with that.... I know right?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted November 30, 2013 Report Share Posted November 30, 2013 (edited) " that block separation disclaimer from Zax in any of the CL literature. " frequency separation has been around for a really long time, it is basic radio 101. I learned about receiver desensitizing when studying for my Novice HAM license a really long time ago.... and it has been discussed here for all brands of wireless systems. warning: may require reading some physics and RF books and theory to fully understand. it isn't a brand name thing, though Edited December 2, 2013 by studiomprd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jobo Posted November 30, 2013 Report Share Posted November 30, 2013 Yes, I understand Jack's point regarding block separation between Talent Rx & link Tx, but in my experience you can get away with it using an all Lectro setup vs a Lectro/Zaxcom combo in the bag.However, I can't speak of the Zax CL, only of the TRX900AA/STA150 combo.Again, this has been my personal experience, and it may differ for others... I understand Jack's point as well. l'm aware of the recommendation to keep a block separation from zaxcom digital camera hops and lectrosonics, have been since I bought a 900/STA100 years ago. Unfortunately My rig isn't always set that way, jobs change, needs change, receivers change. Sometimes I use 25, sometimes I don't. The CL is a better unit, but still behaves similar in certain scenarios to the STA100 in my experience regarding RF spray from the CL into 411s. My hope, and more to my point, was the CL would offer similar results Jason got by switching/using lectro hops. I'm simply sharing my results and for me, the CL is an improvement and more capable unit. But I agree with Jason regarding adjacent blocks in a bag (Lectro with lectro will more likely play well in a bag rather than zax and lectro). Maybe Zaxcom should put a block separation recommendation in the CL literature so those of us who don't take classes, like sound 101/201/303/456, won't look like a holes when we occasionally use their product "incorrectly". Cheers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glenn Posted November 30, 2013 Report Share Posted November 30, 2013 As long as the separation of 1 block from Zaxcom link to bag receiver is maintained it will always play well with Lectro receivers. There is no significant RF energy present in the lectro receiver pass band from our transmitter. Also no intermodulation products will be generated as the single link transmitter can not have that issue. When asked we and our dealers always recommend 1 block of separation. Glenn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Blankenship Posted November 30, 2013 Report Share Posted November 30, 2013 The block separation is strongly recommended for ANY wireless system due to the desensitizing reasons mentioned. The range of receivers will be affected by the transmitter due to the three elements I mentioned earlier: physical proximity, frequency proximity and transmitter power. My Lectrosonics range improved considerably when I went from having transmitters and receivers on the same block living in a bag together to maintaining a multi-block separation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDirckze Posted December 1, 2013 Report Share Posted December 1, 2013 As long as the separation of 1 block from Zaxcom link to bag receiver is maintained it will always play well with Lectro receivers. There is no significant RF energy present in the lectro receiver pass band from our transmitter. Also no intermodulation products will be generated as the single link transmitter can not have that issue. When asked we and our dealers always recommend 1 block of separation. Glenn It was in fact one of your dealers that sold me my Zaxcom link knowing full well what my talent blocks were on.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted December 2, 2013 Report Share Posted December 2, 2013 " Maybe Zaxcom should put a block separation recommendation in the CL literature so those of us who don't take classes, like sound 101/201/303/456, won't look like a holes when we occasionally use their product "incorrectly". " maybe people who think they are worth their rates should take those classes, and actually be worth them! " It was in fact one of your dealers that sold me my Zaxcom link knowing full well what my talent blocks were on.... " there is a big "it depends" to go with that... did you discuss your block choice with them, did you actually ask their advice, or just "place an order"?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Blankenship Posted December 2, 2013 Report Share Posted December 2, 2013 NEWSFLASH: It's up to us to know our profession and that includes the technical aspects of it. This is sounding like the second verse of, "If I just buy the right gear, I'll be a professional." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zack Posted December 2, 2013 Report Share Posted December 2, 2013 +1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wandering Ear Posted December 2, 2013 Report Share Posted December 2, 2013 +1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ao Posted December 2, 2013 Report Share Posted December 2, 2013 The block separation is strongly recommended for ANY wireless system due to the desensitizing reasons mentioned. The range of receivers will be affected by the transmitter due to the three elements I mentioned earlier: physical proximity, frequency proximity and transmitter power. My Lectrosonics range improved considerably when I went from having transmitters and receivers on the same block living in a bag together to maintaining a multi-block separation. when I was buying my first micplexer, the recommendation was 2 blocks of separation. shortly after, it was changed to 3 blocks…. ao Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Blankenship Posted December 2, 2013 Report Share Posted December 2, 2013 There is no magic sharp cutoff point. The more distance by which the physical antennas are separated and the further the frequencies are apart, the more diminished the desensitizing effect. Transmitter power enters into the equation, too, of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jobo Posted December 4, 2013 Report Share Posted December 4, 2013 " Maybe Zaxcom should put a block separation recommendation in the CL literature so those of us who don't take classes, like sound 101/201/303/456, won't look like a holes when we occasionally use their product "incorrectly". " maybe people who think they are worth their rates should take those classes, and actually be worth them! " It was in fact one of your dealers that sold me my Zaxcom link knowing full well what my talent blocks were on.... " there is a big "it depends" to go with that... did you discuss your block choice with them, did you actually ask their advice, or just "place an order"?? Maybe I was being sarcastic NEWSFLASH: It's up to us to know our profession and that includes the technical aspects of it. This is sounding like the second verse of, "If I just buy the right gear, I'll be a professional." Old news to me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDirckze Posted December 4, 2013 Report Share Posted December 4, 2013 there is a big "it depends" to go with that... did you discuss your block choice with them, did you actually ask their advice, or just "place an order"?? There is no "it depends" this time my friend... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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