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Jeremy Childers

No mono mix? Why!

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Hey guys,

On a shoot the last two days and sending reference audio(scratch) to camera. We discuss this in pre pro and production said that was cool. Sending mono mix via comtek. 2nd day of shooting they say they want to hard wire (cameras are handheld). Production request lav 1 on left and lav 2 on right they don't want boom. I ask why! They say it's easier to sync??? I explain that syncing to a mono mix versus the lavs panned left right is the same(to no avail) they continue to insist that we send Wires hard panned so I press and they say that's how our editor works..ahh I give in (they are not getting it), and the truth my mono mix sounded straight up sexy.

It is double system so they have my mix and ISO's but from the sound of it they will be using the lavs hard panned..so frustrating..uff What would you have done?

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Just have to go with it, its what editorial want at the end of the day.

I am about to start a 5 week feature and the editor does not want a mix just everything iso'd.

Just have to go with it.

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I agree, thier workflow. Speak to camera ops privately and get them on board with hops. The sad fact is they will take the request for hops for the camera department more seriously. Sell it to the camera dept that cabling to them will prohibit their movement and ease of work and that your a team guy and want to make it easier for them.

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Rob: " The sad fact is they will take the request for hops for the camera department more seriously "

and the really sad part is they will expect them to be included in the existing price...

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On non-movie or episodic jobs editorial asking for a some version of a split mix is very common.  Being cabled to a camera (let alone more than one) sucks rather more than the split mix thing, I'd work on them re camera hops $$.  I'd also fly a boom anyhow and not send it to the cam if they don't want it there but drop it onto its own track on your rig if you can.  You might save the movie!

 

philp

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While I agree that you have to give the people what they want, I'm confused by the OP. Does production (ie Producer, Director, etc) want this? or is it Post who wants this? I'm hired to figure out and record shots and scenes to the best of my abilities. I don't tell post how to do their job and they need not tell me how to do mine. I'm all for working with the whole team but the team needs to be Production driven on the set. Post has no idea of what we are dealing with. 2 wires to hand held cameras for lav 1 & 2? What if you need lav 3? Or wireless mic's won't work for one of a million reason? I'd talk to Post and the Producer on this one.

CrewC

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While I agree that you have to give the people what they want, I'm confused by the OP. Does production (ie Producer, Director, etc) want this? or is it Post who wants this? I'm hired to figure out and record shots and scenes to the best of my abilities. I don't tell post how to do their job and they need not tell me how to do mine. I'm all for working with the whole team but the team needs to be Production driven on the set. Post has no idea of what we are dealing with. 2 wires to hand held cameras for lav 1 & 2? What if you need lav 3? Or wireless mic's won't work for one of a million reason? I'd talk to Post and the Producer on this one.

CrewC

If they asked for a split mix and there were only 2 lavs up, well, fine.  If there ends up being another mic needed then I agree that it's up to the person there on the ground doing to sound to decide how to get the tracks down.  Good notes, good metadata, and downstream it goes.

 

philp

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Are you going to ask the actors with lav1 or 2 to stand next to the slate so the editor can hear it???

I wonder if the editor really knows what he is asking for, but there could be good reasons we don't know about.

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Copy that, take the money run. Haha I guess I should have clarified, it's not a movie it a very odd corp gig that is being shot like reality but has a script. So however you would classify that.

Crew, I think part of the problem has to do with your question the director is producer and his buddies are editors/cameramen, so yes one of those. It just blows my mind that they pay me my full rate and kit rental and then are gonna use lavs from camera.

I always fly the boom! :) I guess I shouldn't be complaining.

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I've been asked to deliver tracks in all sorts of ways. Like you, I have had post want to change how I deliver in the middle of a shoot. I have often used my best judgement when no post plans had been made prior to the shoot. In my market, that's just the way it is. I figure part of the gig is to tell the bosses "yes" provided they aren't trying to outwit themselves.

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Just have to go with it, its what editorial want at the end of the day. I am about to start a 5 week feature and the editor does not want a mix just everything iso'd.

 

There are a lot of VIP's (Very Ignorant People) running shows in some cases. I'm reminded of my T-shirt that says, "Nothing is worse than when a non-technical person gets into a position of power."

 

I would suggest you have a meeting with the editor and press the need for a mono mix + isos, and emphasize that the isos won't have any level changes. I would also suggest that they talk to their re-recording mixer/post supervisor now, rather than wait until 4-5 months after the shoot. If they won't buy it, get the specs in writing, do your best, then wash your hands of it. If it were me, I would still give them a mono mix but maybe hide it or give it to them as a separate file. 

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Too often after a shoot one is told what was needed.

 

I guess just deliver ISO tracks is an easy way but I've done that before on a complex add lib drama

then I'm told weeks later that I did not deliver the tidy work that I normally produce!

 

A carefully crafted 2 page document explained why.

 

mike

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There are a lot of VIP's (Very Ignorant People) running shows in some cases. I'm reminded of my T-shirt that says, "Nothing is worse than when a non-technical person gets into a position of power."

I would suggest you have a meeting with the editor and press the need for a mono mix + isos, and emphasize that the isos won't have any level changes. I would also suggest that they talk to their re-recording mixer/post supervisor now, rather than wait until 4-5 months after the shoot. If they won't buy it, get the specs in writing, do your best, then wash your hands of it. If it were me, I would still give them a mono mix but maybe hide it or give it to them as a separate file.

It's done and all Marc, the specs have all been agreed between all the departments and it's all in writing.

It's a bit of an art house film with at any one time 3 principles talking on camera and even then there isn't much dialogue.

When I first spoke with the editor he said that he would prefer to mix it himself as he goes along, he will be on site editing while we shoot.

I already said my bit about a mix but he said he really wanted to do it. I guess if he is happy enough then why not. Production already know this is the case.

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I already said my bit about a mix but he said he really wanted to do it. I guess if he is happy enough then why not. Production already know this is the case.

 

Interestingly enough, more likely than not, when it gets to the dialogue editors, they will scrap whatever he did, and redo one themselves.... :/

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Interestingly enough, more likely than not, when it gets to the dialogue editors, they will scrap whatever he did, and redo one themselves.... :/

I thought the same ;-)

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Sounds to me like there may not be a dialogue editor.....

No there is one, he was in the loop with my workflow/spec email.

I guess it's up to him to say otherwise.

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When I first spoke with the editor he said that he would prefer to mix it himself as he goes along, he will be on site editing while we shoot.

 

Not a problem. As long as you've got that in writing, what they get is what they get. My guess is that these are ignorant, inexperienced people who have never worked in what we'd call "the correct way," so they go with what they know rather than what's right. As long as they can get the job done, it's no longer a sound department problem. 

 

I've encountered similar people who believe they can mix the whole show in an edit bay, not grasping the need for a good re-recording mixer in a quiet room (even a modest room running Pro Tools or Nuendo or something competent). Many, many low-budget cable reality shows are done this way, and the results are not good. And yet apparently, somebody's watching.

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