Sound Blankets vs Thick Blankets

[Mirror]

4 hours ago, John Blankenship said:

If you compare natural fibers and typical artificial ones, you'll see that the natural fibers appear fuzzy while the man-made ones usually look like strands of solid plastic.

-----

A person's futile attempt to discredit another's statements by taking them to absurd extremes just seems like... well... an act of desperation.

On certain types of commercial jobs where the mic typically occupies a familiar position I also don't just toss a mic up haphazardly, but still consider the mic characteristics, room acoustics, off-axis pickup, talent's range of motion, type of delivery, end product and post needs, etc. when placing the mic -- even though to a casual observer it may seem like the identical spot, quickly placed.

So, to imply that either a furnie placement or a mic adjustment is a slow, painstaking, highly-deliberated and time-consuming process is to lack understanding of how an experienced sound mixer works.  I'm surprised that someone who has been in the industry for any period of time can't relate to that.

 

 

 

 

 

You are comparing furnie placement to mic placement now? Talk about absurd extremes.  And what's all this "an act of desperation" talk?  Do you think this is a contest of who takes sound shit the most serious?  You win. The grand prize is you never get to touch a tit because of nerd-itis.

They're furnie pads, dude.  Just throw them up where you think they'll do the most good and quit thinking about them while you masturbate...good lord...

5 hours ago, Constantin said:

Choice of blanket/pad can involve science, but it is - obviously - something to be sorted out some time before the shoot.
Placement of said blankets is a different question, but it certainly involves science and experience.
If you throw your blankets and pads haphazardly around the room... well, that's your problem. I try to find the ideal placement, often a compromise of course (ideal placement would often be in the frame), but this is a process sped up by my knowledge of acoustics and, of course, having done this a few times before.

Recently we were filming in this horrible sounding room, very small and boomy. There was only enough for one hanging blanket. My experience told me that my biggest problem were room modes, and my acoustic undestanding told me where to place the blanket. Following your method definetely would have put it in the wrong place.

You should make an app.

[John Blankenship]

1 hour ago, Mirror said:

You are comparing furnie placement to mic placement now? Talk about absurd extremes.  And what's all this "an act of desperation" talk?  Do you think this is a contest of who takes sound shit the most serious?  You win. The grand prize is you never get to touch a tit because of nerd-itis.

They're furnie pads, dude.  Just throw them up where you think they'll do the most good and quit thinking about them while you masturbate...good lord...

I haven't heard insults that clever since grade school.

This forum deserves better.

 

[Mirror]

Do you think you are in church?  This forum deserves less hot air. 

[Siddho]

my (limited) experience with sound blankets has been this:

i might have the 'best' blankets and some knowledge of acoustics but i also will need: an understanding and patient DoP, an understanding and accomadating Gaffer, an undrestanding and helpful set dresser, an understanding and helpful AD, enough time, room and assistance to hang the blanket(s) where i think might be the right place. i may as well play the lottery as i will have a better chance of winning than having all those things at exactly the right time when i need them on a scripted shoot! but hey, if you dont play you wont win!

[ndg2k005]

You sound ridiculous Mirror. I agree with Constantin. You can't just put egg cartons on a wall and say that'll work.

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[Philip Perkins]

Egg cartons would be the thing I would do if I wanted to send a message that I knew we had a room reflection problem but I wasn't really willing to do anything substantive about it.  At one time there was a soundstage in my town who actually did cover a large wall with real cardboard square egg cartons, so they could pretend they were doing something about the horrible acoustic of their stage.  It was very embarrassing to work with out of town producers in that room--we really looked like hicks with those things on the walls.  With that as an indication of the stage owner's commitment, business acumen and class, it wasn't surprising that the place went belly up in short order.

Any soundie worth their salt keeps a few clean furni pads in their car or on the truck, just in case.

 

 

[Mirror]

2 hours ago, ndg2k005 said:

You sound ridiculous Mirror. I agree with Constantin. You can't just put egg cartons on a wall and say that'll work.

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Sure you can...They work pretty good too. 

[Abe Dolinger]

There's an old internet adage about feeding trolls . .

I think Nietzsche actually said it first.  Something about looking into the abyss.

[daniel]

re egg cartons:

For a given weight of material, if there is a measurable difference between a blanket with natural fibres vs man made then its not improbable there is a measurable difference made by putting egg cartons on wall vs nothing at all. How effective it is though would depend on how many you have and how you can deploy them. Eg. Several layers of them so there is a decent gap between the wall and furthest layer or stacked like books on a shelf to introduce a lot of unreflective mass into a room. But even if you live near a chicken farm there are better things to improvise with, not least for ease and variety of placement, carrying about and effectiveness (not to mention fire risk). And a 'soundstage' using only egg cartons or furni pads as acoustic treatment would have to be considered 'improvised'.

[IronFilm]

On 9/18/2016 at 8:44 PM, Siddho said:

my (limited) experience with sound blankets has been this:

i might have the 'best' blankets and some knowledge of acoustics but i also will need: an understanding and patient DoP, an understanding and accomadating Gaffer, an undrestanding and helpful set dresser, an understanding and helpful AD, enough time, room and assistance to hang the blanket(s) where i think might be the right place. i may as well play the lottery as i will have a better chance of winning than having all those things at exactly the right time when i need them on a scripted shoot! but hey, if you dont play you wont win!

And that list of reasons is one of the reasons why the sound department is one of the most under appreciated departments on set, we don't get any of that level of cooperation from the others.

[Mirror]

3 hours ago, daniel said:

re egg cartons:

For a given weight of material, if there is a measurable difference between a blanket with natural fibres vs man made then its not improbable there is a measurable difference made by putting egg cartons on wall vs nothing at all. How effective it is though would depend on how many you have and how you can deploy them. Eg. Several layers of them so there is a decent gap between the wall and furthest layer or stacked like books on a shelf to introduce a lot of unreflective mass into a room. But even if you live near a chicken farm there are better things to improvise with, not least for ease and variety of placement, carrying about and effectiveness (not to mention fire risk). And a 'soundstage' using only egg cartons or furni pads as acoustic treatment would have to be considered 'improvised'.

Ahhh...but are you factoring in whether or not the eggs are still IN the cartons?  

[daniel]

2 hours ago, Mirror said:

Ahhh...but are you factoring in whether or not the eggs are still IN the cartons?  

Raw or hardboiled?

[Mirror]

12 minutes ago, daniel said:

Raw or hardboiled?

African or European? 

[daniel]

Sucked or unsucked? 

[The Immoral Mr Teas]

43 minutes ago, daniel said:

Sucked or unsucked? 

At last we're finally getting somewhere!

"Are you visiting the set? Do not forget a blanket!" Friedrich Nietzsche , Ecce Sono

[Mirror]

Sucked...always.

[John Dombroski]

My two cents: if production is willing — all blankets, all carpet, all soft material, is good material — put it everywhere you can (according to science papers on acoustics, natural fibers are indeed ideal, but thickness is key either way), and the more you learn about acoustics, the better you'll know where to place your sonic absorbers for each use case. Maybe you can convince production to invest in a few packs of furnies and build you movable frames for your "sound blankets", or maybe they'll go to the local fabric recycling center/goodwill and get layers of carpet and other material to cover the walls/windows. Maybe the science is more an art?

 

This thread is the reason JWSoundgroup is the very best place on the internet to be a listener. It takes a lot of passion to care enough about sound that you get into fisticuffs over blankets... and I absolutely love you all for it (and I'm right here with you).

Thanks all (and thanks Jeff)

 

~ John

[sonyslave]

On 9/17/2016 at 11:35 AM, Constantin said:

Choice of blanket/pad can involve science, but it is - obviously - something to be sorted out some time before the shoot.
Placement of said blankets is a different question, but it certainly involves science and experience.
If you throw your blankets and pads haphazardly around the room... well, that's your problem. I try to find the ideal placement, often a compromise of course (ideal placement would often be in the frame), but this is a process sped up by my knowledge of acoustics and, of course, having done this a few times before.

Recently we were filming in this horrible sounding room, very small and boomy. There was only enough for one hanging blanket. My experience told me that my biggest problem were room modes, and my acoustic undestanding told me where to place the blanket. Following your method definetely would have put it in the wrong place.

Exactly correct!  In one case the director insisted on getting clean lines in a working restaurant!  Luckily I have a good relationship with the crew and they gave me some wiggle room to build a sound blanket box  around the talent (a child) and close to the edge of frame that did not compromise lighting, or the dolly in/out of the tight single, or the background menu board.  The sound was very clean, better than I or the director could have realistically hoped for given the circumstance.  I chalk this up to having the luxury of a little time for careful consideration the following: noise source and reflections to determine best blanket placement given the dolly move, any encumbrance I may be creating for other depts., trip hazards I may creating, agency people who I had to politely ask to slide over, letting the master level key grip, gaffer, and DP know what I was trying to pull off ahead of time so no one freaked out.  Also: time enough to build the damn thing without slowing down the shoot since the scene prior was MOS.  The key grip helped me out a lot with some suggestions that I had not considered due to the time/pressure crunch.  

Sometimes I do just throw down a few blankets to deaden a space, other times it's threading the needle of sonic excellence. 

btw my blankets are also black and white, and are perhaps one of most underrated bang for the buck pieces of gear I have bought in my 3 decades of recording sound for picture.